US Presidential Election XII

[womanfish]

Originally Posted by iron yuppie

While I don't agree with the tone in which BMP is trying to make this point, I think the basic premise stands: people are contorting to give Hillary the benefit of the doubt on pretty much every single criticism that comes her way, usually trying to brush it aside as misogyny, yet assuming the absolute worst of Bernie and his supporters.

If people don't like Bernie and his supporters, fine, but the claim that things have been even-handed in here in terms of Hillary and Bernie is not even remotely grounded in reality.

Wow. I don't even know where to begin on this. Do you think that maybe, just maybe, the candidate that has every false, witchhunt accusation and slur thrown at her, might just have more reasonable people saying, Look, there is no proof of this, this is bullshit, this is a false narrative that's been cooked up for decades.

I'm sorry, but Clinton supporters are pretty open in saying, yep, she made a bad decision, she had a bad stance on that for a while, she fucked this up... etc...
But I could list of a dozen horrible votes and decisions by Sanders and would never have a Bernie person admit that he was wrong.

I really don't know where you're getting this.

Can you imagine if Clinton had done what Bernie did with Sierra Blanca? If she were a huge proponent of the F-35 program? If kept stalling and blocking release of her tax returns? If she had actually voted for the Crime Bill that they credit her for anyway? If she had voted for deregulating credit default swaps like Bernie did? If she had the same history with the NRA and gun control votes?
She would be crucified by the same people that see nothing wrong with Bernie doing it.

[womanfish]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

I'm still in the whole "he doesn't care to win" boat. He's pumped his brand out. People will never forget this. He's proven all press is "good press" in the scope of his branding. He's made a name for dozens of people, for better or for worse. He's made a name for all of his kids and his wife. Regardless of what happens, win or lose, Trump is laughing all the way to 1) the bank and 2) his family legacy.

Totally agree. I called this back when Carson was up in the polls during the primaries. I said neither Carson or Trump, WANT to be president. Carson, to his credit, had a small enough ego to find a way out. Trump can't stop himself. He wants to win, no question. There just is no way he wants to be president. Or actually do the duties of the president.

[iron yuppie]

Originally Posted by womanfish

I'm sorry, but Clinton supporters are pretty open in saying, yep, she made a bad decision, she had a bad stance on that for a while, she fucked this up... etc...

Yeah? Go ahead and give some examples. I'd love to hear them. Because when people like PFan and Vlad have brought up concerns about her foreign policy record, for example, it's immediately crickets. Then there's something about Bernie's tax records, and right on cue, pages of mockery.

[digitize]

Originally Posted by Axver

Manafort has resigned.

Things are going well then.

Word seems to be that Manafort was (obviously unsuccessfully) pushing Trump to adopt a more conventional campaign style, while the new team is adopting a more "let Trump be Trump" style. This is gonna be hilarious.

Incidentally, I was watching Fox News last night because it was on the gym. So funny. They literally referred to Trump's "strong week on the campaign trail" and that Trump just needs to be more "comfortable in his own skin", which is what the new team will enable. It's remarkable the fantasy world these people are living in.


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[DaveC]

you're taking the reaction to 3 separate posts here as indicative of a trend?

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by Axver

Manafort has resigned.

Things are going well then.

Says who?

Originally Posted by BEAL

Trump supporters shouldn't be concerned at all with the changes. It's only less than 80 days till election.

Get ready for the greatest comeback ever. It'll be huge. In fact, it'll be so great you'll be tired of comeback stories after this.

Says who?

[womanfish]

Originally Posted by iron yuppie

Yeah? Go ahead and give some examples. I'd love to hear them. Because when people like PFan and Vlad have brought up concerns about her foreign policy record, for example, it's immediately crickets. Then there's something about Bernie's tax records, and right on cue, pages of mockery.

Have you seen anyone here defend her vote on Iraq? Yet, when Bernie gave two confidence votes for regime change leading up to that vote, he has nothing to answer for...

No Clinton supporter has said she's perfect. A very large percentage of Bernie supporters believe he is. He was held in a messianic light, the only hope for our country's salvation. I've seen it all over and over again.

Clinton, nor anyone else, is a messiah. She would just be a damn good president in my opinion.

[womanfish]

Originally Posted by digitize

Word seems to be that Manafort was (obviously unsuccessfully) pushing Trump to adopt a more conventional campaign style, while the new team is adopting a more "let Trump be Trump" style. This is gonna be hilarious.

Incidentally, I was watching Fox News last night because it was on the gym. So funny. They literally referred to Trump's "strong week on the campaign trail" and that Trump just needs to be more "comfortable in his own skin", which is what the new team will enable. It's remarkable the fantasy world these people are living in.


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I must admit that the KellyAnn woman frightens me a little. She's doing a bang up job so far acting like a normal human being, but what i've seen of her on panels over the last year, she is crazy.
I do think you will see some tightening polls in the next few weeks. They seem to have put him on permanent teleprompter, which may cause some undecideds to feel ok enough about him.
And even when he is on teleprompter, he kicks a Muslim woman out of his rally for standing silently wearing an "I Come In Peace" shirt. Yet, its so normal and accepted now, i didn't see one news outlet cover it this morning.

[iron yuppie]

Originally Posted by womanfish

No Clinton supporter has said she's perfect. A very large percentage of Bernie supporters believe he is. He was held in a messianic light, the only hope for our country's salvation. I've seen it all over and over again.

I would say it was just one person on this board with that perspective whose vantage point was unfairly extrapolated to Bernie supporters writ-large.

But it's true that he is no longer a factor in the race, and I should stop discussing it.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by iron yuppie

Yeah? Go ahead and give some examples. I'd love to hear them. Because when people like PFan and Vlad have brought up concerns about her foreign policy record, for example, it's immediately crickets. Then there's something about Bernie's tax records, and right on cue, pages of mockery.

I swear you're reading a different forum than I am...


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[BVS]

Originally Posted by BEAL

Trump supporters shouldn't be concerned at all with the changes. It's only less than 80 days till election.

Get ready for the greatest comeback ever. It'll be huge. In fact, it'll be so great you'll be tired of comeback stories after this.




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October surprise.

They're still clinging. The millions spent on Benghazi and emails didn't work, so they're moving onto the last straw.




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[anitram]

Originally Posted by BVS

I swear you're reading a different forum than I am...

I think most people who are voting for HC have been more than willing to admit that she has problems here or there, though to be honest I have a couple of times thought the pushback was a bit unwarranted in terms of charges of sexism being brought up immediately. And usually by men, too. But I think where iron yuppie has a point is that this forum has been extremely aggressively ridiculing Bernie and his supporters. I wasn't one of them (Bernie bros) so it didn't really affect me, but there were times when it felt like because we had one poster who was just way out there, that nobody was even willing to entertain the notion that there are some serious points that campaign was making. BMP really kind of shat the bed on this to be honest, but the rest of us didn't always have to take the bait either...

[LuckyNumber7]

I found myself defending Bernie Sanders through the primary more often than I'd have liked. It wasn't just competition. He was seemingly an illegitimate joke here. If you were to consider voting for him, you were white male millennial who has never had a job and suckles on mommy and daddy's cash who doesn't have a clue about the world.

A lot of the more recent posts have simply just been 'told you so.'

[martha]

I didn't read these threads during the primaries, but part of my problem is the hatred spewed by the Bernie-ites towards Hillary. My FB was insane; it was like she was the Anti-Christ or something.

[BEAL]

Actually, I heard she worked with the Jews to kill Christ. I don't know if it's true, but smart people are talking


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[martha]

Why doesn't she deny it?

[BVS]

Originally Posted by anitram

But I think where iron yuppie has a point is that this forum has been extremely aggressively ridiculing Bernie and his supporters. I wasn't one of them (Bernie bros) so it didn't really affect me, but there were times when it felt like because we had one poster who was just way out there, that nobody was even willing to entertain the notion that there are some serious points that campaign was making. BMP really kind of shat the bed on this to be honest, but the rest of us didn't always have to take the bait either...

But I went back and read the last 3 previous pages, and I didn't see one "mocking" post about Bernie, not one. Sure there have been swipes at those messiah types, but can we not differentiate? i guess I never understood this inability to see that a criticism of the follower doesn't equate to a criticism of the candidate.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by anitram

I think most people who are voting for HC have been more than willing to admit that she has problems here or there, though to be honest I have a couple of times thought the pushback was a bit unwarranted in terms of charges of sexism being brought up immediately. And usually by men, too. But I think where iron yuppie has a point is that this forum has been extremely aggressively ridiculing Bernie and his supporters. I wasn't one of them (Bernie bros) so it didn't really affect me, but there were times when it felt like because we had one poster who was just way out there, that nobody was even willing to entertain the notion that there are some serious points that campaign was making. BMP really kind of shat the bed on this to be honest, but the rest of us didn't always have to take the bait either...

Tough not to take the bait when it's a never ending chum bucket...

But your overall point is dead on. The prime BernieBro was/remains soooooooo unbelievably over the top and just in his own world that it's hard not to respond.

Dude took a mispost by me in another thread that I changed to a period and went on a rant over it.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by iron yuppie

Yeah? Go ahead and give some examples. I'd love to hear them. Because when people like PFan and Vlad have brought up concerns about her foreign policy record, for example, it's immediately crickets. Then there's something about Bernie's tax records, and right on cue, pages of mockery.

To be fair, the mockery isn't so much of Bernie bit of his #Bernieorbust supporters, especially after their DNC histrionics.

My point was that this would be the type of scrutiny Bernie would have been subjected to in the general that he has not yet encountered because the Clinton folks went easy on him and he wins handily in Vermont. I'm sure he can handle it, but there was a concern about his lack of vetting.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by martha

I didn't read these threads during the primaries, but part of my problem is the hatred spewed by the Bernie-ites towards Hillary. My FB was insane; it was like she was the Anti-Christ or something.

Yes. I felt/saw the hate, and I do think misogyny was a component. I'm very glad it's over. And this wasn't one loud idiot -- this was the several dozen Bernie folks having essentially the same arguments/talking points and getting into the same back-and-forth with the Hillary folk who always took the bait.

It takes everything I have to remain (mostly) apolitical on FB.

That's why I come here.