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Old 04-21-2015, 06:44 PM   #141
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Hehe, I remember PhilsFan in 2012 going all "this isn't the election to vote 3rd party you're a total waste of a vote" and somebody else going off about it being the most important election of my lifetime (which was a load of crap statement).
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Old 04-21-2015, 07:12 PM   #142
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My prediction: Hillary is going to continue to struggle as the 'Clinton Cash' book rolls out. So far her campaign as appeared inauthentic. She has bussed in Democrat operatives into a meet and greet at a coffee shop. The media is not giving her as much cover as she is used to. Seeing weakness in the Clinton machine I think more people might throw their hat in the ring.

I'm not a Democrat. For those of you who generally side with Democrats who would you want to see if not Hillary?
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Old 04-21-2015, 09:11 PM   #143
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Hehe, I remember PhilsFan in 2012 going all "this isn't the election to vote 3rd party you're a total waste of a vote" and somebody else going off about it being the most important election of my lifetime (which was a load of crap statement).

Will the third party vote ever not be a waste of a vote if we're still functioning under the electoral college system?

Perot and Nader were probably the 2 biggest third party runners I can think of in my lifetime, and both played a big part in handing the election over to the candidate who most opposed the third party.


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Old 04-21-2015, 10:50 PM   #144
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I'm not a Democrat. For those of you who generally side with Democrats who would you want to see if not Hillary?

Definitely Elizabeth Warren, a real progressive who actually stands for principles that benefits everyday Americans rather than the rich. But I fear she would be corrupted by all the money that comes with a presidential campaign, plus her foreign policy isn't there yet.


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Old 04-21-2015, 11:31 PM   #145
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How 'far' to the left (by American standards) is Warren?
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Old 04-22-2015, 12:57 AM   #146
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Hehe, I remember PhilsFan in 2012 going all "this isn't the election to vote 3rd party you're a total waste of a vote" and somebody else going off about it being the most important election of my lifetime (which was a load of crap statement).
Winner take all means two parties. Third party candidates are irrelevant in America.


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Old 04-22-2015, 02:11 AM   #147
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Only because two parties are allowed to strangle the system because of funding.
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Old 04-22-2015, 08:11 AM   #148
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Only because two parties are allowed to strangle the system because of funding.
While that is a large part of it, you also have a structural problem with the winner-take-all system.

The US is not a parliamentary democracy, this in itself is the largest barricade to a multi-party system, money notwithstanding.
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Old 04-22-2015, 08:18 AM   #149
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Change is DUE from US voters.

This post is me taking action. Everyone currently buying into our bullshit two-party oligarchy has 1 of 2 choices. They can either take action themselves and "CHANGE" the culture here OR they can look forward to more embarrassing candidates in the future from these pissweak political parties.

Democrats, Republicans and their yes-men will not strong-arm me into keeping my mouth shut on this matter. It’s called “FREEDOM OF SPEECH”. I will no longer be a silent drone to this oppression and their tyrannical two-party system.

Things will change. I know people.

Let's make like Devin Hester and take this shit to the WHITE HOUSE.
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Old 04-22-2015, 10:09 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
My prediction: Hillary is going to continue to struggle as the 'Clinton Cash' book rolls out. So far her campaign as appeared inauthentic. She has bussed in Democrat operatives into a meet and greet at a coffee shop. The media is not giving her as much cover as she is used to. Seeing weakness in the Clinton machine I think more people might throw their hat in the ring.

I'm not a Democrat. For those of you who generally side with Democrats who would you want to see if not Hillary?


When has the media ever given her "cover"?

Wasn't the whole argument in 2008 that the media fawned over Obama and was rough on her?
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Old 04-22-2015, 10:16 AM   #151
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And then the right ripped her for complaining about it until Sarah Palin was named the VP candidate and had to do a 180 on whether or not women in politics should be allowed to complain about media coverage.
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Old 04-22-2015, 10:17 AM   #152
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How 'far' to the left (by American standards) is Warren?


She's generally about as far left on economic issues as a mainstream US politician could ever be, at least one with a national platform. Generally, her and Bernie Sanders (an Independent from Vermont who votes with Democrats) are the two best voices the left has. They are both well respected within the party, and speak to the base. They advocate traditional American liberal policies that were modified/abandoned by Clinton "triangulation" and his move to the right after the 1994 midterms.

They'd be mainstream, centrist candidates in most Western European democracies.

They are also not nearly as far to the left as their counterparts on the right.

What's interesting, to me, is that it's economic populism that's the red meat for the Democratic base, whereas red meat for the GOP base is now social issues.
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Old 04-22-2015, 10:33 AM   #153
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I think the two party system(if you can call it that) works just fine. What often happens in Europe with large multiple parties in government is that coalitions are formed in order to win elections and these coalitions resemble what already happens between the Republicans and the Democrats in the United States.
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Old 04-22-2015, 11:33 AM   #154
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You can't handle Scott Walker

Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonMelon View Post
Change is DUE from US voters.

This post is me taking action. Everyone currently buying into our bullshit two-party oligarchy has 1 of 2 choices. They can either take action themselves and "CHANGE" the culture here OR they can look forward to more embarrassing candidates in the future from these pissweak political parties.

Democrats, Republicans and their yes-men will not strong-arm me into keeping my mouth shut on this matter. It’s called “FREEDOM OF SPEECH”. I will no longer be a silent drone to this oppression and their tyrannical two-party system.

Things will change. I know people.

Let's make like Devin Hester and take this shit to the WHITE HOUSE.
Well done.
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Old 04-22-2015, 11:58 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
My prediction: Hillary is going to continue to struggle as the 'Clinton Cash' book rolls out. So far her campaign as appeared inauthentic. She has bussed in Democrat operatives into a meet and greet at a coffee shop. The media is not giving her as much cover as she is used to. Seeing weakness in the Clinton machine I think more people might throw their hat in the ring.

I'm not a Democrat. For those of you who generally side with Democrats who would you want to see if not Hillary?
How is it that she is struggling? A quick look at Real Clear Politics polling data collected over the past two days has her up double digits over every GOP candidate, some by as many as 24 points even (Carson/Cruz). The closest one i saw as Rubio, which she "only" had a 14 point lead.

I realize its very early, but clearly your definition of struggling is different than mine.

RealClearPolitics - Latest Polls

Quote:
Monday, April 20
Race/Topic (Click to Sort) Poll Results Spread
2016 Republican Presidential Nomination CNN/ORC Bush 17, Walker 12, Cruz 7, Paul 11, Rubio 11, Huckabee 9, Carson 4, Christie 4, Perry 3, Santorum 3, Jindal 2, Kasich 2 Bush +5
2016 Democratic Presidential Nomination CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 69, Warren, Biden 11, Sanders 5, Webb 3, O'Malley 1 Clinton +58
General Election: Bush vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 56, Bush 39 Clinton +17
General Election: Walker vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 59, Walker 37 Clinton +22
General Election: Paul vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 58, Paul 39 Clinton +19
General Election: Cruz vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 60, Cruz 36 Clinton +24
General Election: Rubio vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 55, Rubio 41 Clinton +14
General Election: Christie vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 58, Christie 39 Clinton +19
General Election: Huckabee vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 58, Huckabee 37 Clinton +21
General Election: Carson vs. Clinton CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 60, Carson 36 Clinton +24
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Old 04-22-2015, 01:03 PM   #156
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How is it that she is struggling? A quick look at Real Clear Politics polling data collected over the past two days has her up double digits over every GOP candidate, some by as many as 24 points even (Carson/Cruz). The closest one i saw as Rubio, which she "only" had a 14 point lead.

I realize its very early, but clearly your definition of struggling is different than mine.

RealClearPolitics - Latest Polls
Wow, I don't think I have ever seen Hillary this strong. Clearly part of it must be the effect of formally announcing the campaign. I think they might of moved up the date for announcing because she was sliding some in older polls plus the e-mail scandal. But now, 69% support vs all the other Democratic nominees. That's just nuts. Then, CNN's results show a landslide victory or near landslide victory against every Republican candidate except maybe Rubio. This looks like a slaughter.
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Old 04-22-2015, 01:36 PM   #157
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Winner take all means two parties. Third party candidates are irrelevant in America.


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At least your views haven't changed.

Well, I do remember you saying that that specifically wasn't the election for it. Probably hanging out for another Ross Perot.
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Old 04-22-2015, 03:27 PM   #158
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Wow, I don't think I have ever seen Hillary this strong. Clearly part of it must be the effect of formally announcing the campaign. I think they might of moved up the date for announcing because she was sliding some in older polls plus the e-mail scandal. But now, 69% support vs all the other Democratic nominees. That's just nuts. Then, CNN's results show a landslide victory or near landslide victory against every Republican candidate except maybe Rubio. This looks like a slaughter.
at this stage I think she wins in Nov 2016, with the GOP candidate in the high 40s and her in the low 50s, not a blow out, but a sizable win in the electoral college, could easily get 350 electoral votes.

I will say looking at the FOX polls that conservative seem to have more faith in, Bush is tied with her at 45 - 45. All the rest are losing to her. Also looking at the state by state polls, Rubio looks weak. I still say it will most likely be a two person race between Bush and Walker. Note that in the Wisconsin polls Walker loses to Hillary by a wider margin the many of the other GOP candidates.
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Old 04-22-2015, 04:03 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Mrs. Garrison View Post
How is it that she is struggling? A quick look at Real Clear Politics polling data collected over the past two days has her up double digits over every GOP candidate, some by as many as 24 points even (Carson/Cruz). The closest one i saw as Rubio, which she "only" had a 14 point lead.

I realize its very early, but clearly your definition of struggling is different than mine.

RealClearPolitics - Latest Polls
Like I prefaced it: My prediction.
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Old 04-22-2015, 04:07 PM   #160
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I hope Carly gets in, it will make it more fun? to watch
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