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Old 08-16-2021, 09:50 PM   #761
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You can’t compare ISIS with the Taliban. That’s a strong oversight of the authority and legitimacy of the Taliban. They’re not a band of marauders. They’ve existed for a long ass time.

This is sad that it has played out this way, but it’s evidence of failure of American occupation.
I'm not saying the groups are the same - I'm saying the rush to try and clean up someone else's mess led to a separate and potentially worse mess.
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Old 08-17-2021, 10:54 AM   #762
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At least seven people died falling off the exterior of the plane when it was already airborne😞

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Old 08-17-2021, 01:44 PM   #763
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(CNN)Perhaps unhappy with the soaring profile of fellow Floridian Ron DeSantis among the Trumpist base of the Republican Party, Sen. Rick Scott decided to do something about it on Monday.

"After the disastrous events in Afghanistan, we must confront a serious question: Is Joe Biden capable of discharging the duties of his office or has time come to exercise the provisions of the 25th Amendment?" he tweeted.
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Old 08-17-2021, 01:51 PM   #764
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It’s a cluster$&ck. 20 years and billions of dollars wasted (but the military industrial complex and contractors profited greatly) look at where Afghanistan is now.

The right will use this to their advantage as a way to question Biden’s leadership skills. But honestly, Biden did himself zero favors with his decision and yesterday’s horrible press conference did not help at all.
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Old 08-17-2021, 02:55 PM   #765
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Americans care that we are done.

The media and right wing will spin this to take away from the covid disaster going on in the south. And the influx of children who are about to get really fucking sick over the next two months.

Biden did the right thing and i thought his speech yesterday was fine.
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Old 08-17-2021, 05:43 PM   #766
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I give Biden props for doing the right thing by ending the war despite the inevitably that it will end up looking bad politically.

The rush to get out by an arbitrary and marketing friendly date, however, is what led to that inevitably happening quicker than anyone expected. That's on Biden.
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Old 08-17-2021, 06:15 PM   #767
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I give Biden props for doing the right thing by ending the war despite the inevitably that it will end up looking bad politically.

The rush to get out by an arbitrary and marketing friendly date, however, is what led to that inevitably happening quicker than anyone expected. That's on Biden.


Biden being in DGAF mode regarding his own political career is probably what’s best for handling the ugly decisions but could severely hamper Harris’ 2024 chances, which were already questionable. America has a short attention span but Fox/OAN will make the “Democrats handed the Middle East back to terrorists” a daily mantra for the next 3 years of this continues to devolve.
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Old 08-17-2021, 06:37 PM   #768
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The Biden administration is definitely at fault for how this withdrawal went down.

But he was screwed by Trump, and everyone knows it.

When you broker an agreement for peace but promise to withdraw by a certain timeframe, yeah, so much for peace.

Not surprisingly the Taliban increased their stranglehold on most of the country shortly after and violence ramped up to levels not seen in, oh, 20 years. Imagine that.

We can discuss how every administration since 9/11 bungled the Afghanistan operation in one form or another, and in retrospect it was doomed to fail, but make no mistake that Trump opened the floodgates.
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Old 08-17-2021, 06:57 PM   #769
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Hey, person who argues in bad faith.

It is possible to be critical of the handling of Afghanistan while also understanding that there's a big fuck problem with the delta variant. They are not mutually exclusive.

Thanks for stopping by, tho
The withdrawal from Afghanistan presents a wonderful opportunity to converse about a difficult subject in a balanced, realistic manner. There have been US failures spanning 20 years in the region and far beyond when one considers our misguided efforts in South Vietnam. We can't shape countries into our own image and it's rarely popular at home. This is just one more in a long line of disasters stemming from US imperialism.

Sadly, this complex and challenging topic with meaningful implications for our position as a world power is being approached with the same deflections and political one upsmanship as every other issue we run into these days. It's fucking depressing but not surprising. The last four administrations have all bungled things in Afghanistan, which points to its occupation being a fundamentally bad idea to begin with.

Will we learn from this? I'm not sure how we would.
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Old 08-17-2021, 07:55 PM   #770
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I don’t get how we were so blind to the shit, and absolute corruption that was / is the Afghan government and military.

Did we really think these guys were going to put up a fight once the Taliban came marching in?

I believe that is on Biden’s admin. Tho i wonder how much intel was shared during the transition and even up to this point.

Let’s not forget that they were held out of everything
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Old 08-17-2021, 08:55 PM   #771
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It’s a cluster$&ck. 20 years and billions of dollars wasted (but the military industrial complex and contractors profited greatly) look at where Afghanistan is now.

The right will use this to their advantage as a way to question Biden’s leadership skills. But honestly, Biden did himself zero favors with his decision and yesterday’s horrible press conference did not help at all.


Aside from this event, do you honestly believe that Biden has shown great leadership?
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Old 08-17-2021, 09:09 PM   #772
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US Politics XXXIII: Get Inoculated!

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Old 08-17-2021, 09:36 PM   #773
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Aside from this event, do you honestly believe that Biden has shown great leadership?

Would you rather have Trump in office?
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Old 08-17-2021, 09:40 PM   #774
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Aside from this event, do you honestly believe that Biden has shown great leadership?


It’s an interesting question. Biden has done something Trump did all presidency: give us literally what we asked for.

I haven’t checked but I am willing to wager a lot of money that ending the forever war had popular support, but the way it was done did not. Obama backed out of Iraq strategically and responsibly. And yet here we are with a similar outcome.
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Old 08-17-2021, 10:08 PM   #775
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US Politics XXXIII: Get Inoculated!

Everything gets twisted back to Trump who I didn’t even bring up. Why can’t you guys admit that maybe Biden isn’t a good leader?
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Old 08-17-2021, 10:14 PM   #776
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Everything gets twisted back to Trump who I didn’t even bring up. Why can’t you guys admit Biden isn’t the answer and isn’t a good leader?
I accepted my dissatisfaction with Biden before I ever voted for him. As you'll recall, the options were limited.
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Old 08-17-2021, 11:46 PM   #777
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Everything gets twisted back to Trump who I didn’t even bring up. Why can’t you guys admit that maybe Biden isn’t a good leader?

You didn’t even bring him up but that was literally the only other choice, so it’s not like we’re crazy to ask about trump given your implication that Biden wasn’t the right choice.

As for your question, I think as a whole Biden’s been doing a decent job, actually. I never had sky high expectations for the man, but he’s not a walking catastrophe like the last guy. Oh darn, there I go bringing him up again…
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Old 08-18-2021, 02:48 AM   #778
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Aside from this event, do you honestly believe that Biden has shown great leadership?
He got a real covid relief bill passed and, barring craziness in the house, will do the same with infrastructure.

He's managed covid about as well as is possible to date, which is frankly Herculean when you consider what he was left with. My main critique was not pushing for as close to a mandate on vaccination as he legally could earlier. I think it should have been done the second the supply allowed it. To be fair - that time was only about a month and a half ago - a short time in the grand scheme of things - but I still think they should have done more earlier. Alas - they're doing it now.

Unfortunately to push us over the finish line we're going to need help from the other side, and I don't think there's a single president in our nation's history who would be capable of bridging that divide right now - as the other side - your side - has gone completely off the deep end.

This is what happens when 30-40% of the population fall into a cult. A death cult, at that. Florida and Texas have leaders who are literally killing off their constituents in order to perhaps show themselves to be the rightful next leader of the cult.

So great leadership? Perhaps not, but largely competent. And when you consider the disaster that he inherited, competent is pretty good. I think everyone with a fair and open mind who wasn't taken in by the cult would agree that getting ourselves out of the burning mess our country was in on January 20 was not something that was going to happen overnight.
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Old 08-18-2021, 06:21 AM   #779
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Everything gets twisted back to Trump who I didn’t even bring up. Why can’t you guys admit that maybe Biden isn’t a good leader?


I’m not sure if you were talking about my post, where I didn’t “twist” anything back to Trump. I indicated this is what Trump did / why people liked him.
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Old 08-18-2021, 07:45 AM   #780
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Can we give the administration more than one fucking day with Afghanistan before saying his presidency and the man are a complete failure ??

While i don’t trust the Taliban and neither should anyone, how many American lives have been lost during this transition ? At this moment it appears as tho the Taliban are allowing safe passage for those getting out of Kabul. That takes some diplomacy to manage working with savages.

Maybe we need to take off our American exceptionalism when it comes to our military might too, cause we appear just as incompetent and corrupt there as any other branch of government. It’s a been a grift of tax payers well before Trump took over.

Let’s see how the US does to correct the evacuation of US and Afghans before burying the President on a policy nearly everyone supports.

The media have been salivating over anything to ding Biden on

As for Biden’s leadership

We went from 3000+ deaths a day when he took over to where we are now in another surge. This surge being driven by GOP southern states who refuse the vaccine to own the libs, or by government leaders opposing any common sense protocols.

Back in January we had vaccines but not clear path to distribute. I wasnt expecting to get my shots until this time in summer, instead i got it in late March.

Covid relief passed
Infrastructure week only took a few weeks, not four years of posturing. If it and the reconciliation bill pass that’s another huge win
The economy grew by a million jobs in July
Stock market continues to explode

I’d say so far that’s a great resume and it’s only been six months.

Name one President who’s done well in the Middle East ??
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