MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
There will be dire consequences for women in Afghanistan. Wish more people cared about that.
I just can't even imagine being a woman there now.
I just can't even imagine being a woman there now.
US Politics XXXIII: Get Inoculated!
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Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
There is more than enough blame to go around but we all knew this was going to happen. I just don’t think we knew it was going to happen over the course of a weekend.
I’ve no idea what can be done other than to volunteer to help resettle Afghan refugees if you can.
The Taliban have to be just about the worst people on the planet.
It’s so awful I can’t even bear to watch.
I’ve no idea what can be done other than to volunteer to help resettle Afghan refugees if you can.
The Taliban have to be just about the worst people on the planet.
It’s so awful I can’t even bear to watch.
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
Sounds awful, cynical, and maybe even ignorant to say, but when it comes to the Taliban and that region as a whole, I just don't know that there are any "winning" solutions. And if there are, we sure haven't seen any in my lifetime.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
I think was doomed when it turned into "nation building", and because it took so long to get Bin Laden.
All of our dead and wounded (physically and psychologically) for life troops, all the dead and forever damaged Afghan civilians.
Biden is right to want us out of there. I just watched his explanation for what went wrong, it wasn't very credible. It is nice to have a President who says the buck stops with him. As opposed to one who never took responsibility for anything.
All of our dead and wounded (physically and psychologically) for life troops, all the dead and forever damaged Afghan civilians.
Biden is right to want us out of there. I just watched his explanation for what went wrong, it wasn't very credible. It is nice to have a President who says the buck stops with him. As opposed to one who never took responsibility for anything.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
We should have gone in, killed or captured OBL, and gotten out … but there were people, who I remember even on this forum, who thought that Afghanistan and Iraq were yearning to be New Jersey, all they needed was a little help.
This is a multifaceted disaster with plenty of blame to be handed out to every president from Bush to Biden.
That was Iraq, not Afghanistan.
The mess in Iraq was not Obama's fault. But his rush to try and clean up and get out led to the development of ISIS.
Biden is repeating the mistake here.
The mess may not have been your creation, but you make it yours when you fuck up the clean up.
Biden is repeating the mistake here.
The mess may not have been your creation, but you make it yours when you fuck up the clean up.
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LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
You can’t compare ISIS with the Taliban. That’s a strong oversight of the authority and legitimacy of the Taliban. They’re not a band of marauders. They’ve existed for a long ass time.
This is sad that it has played out this way, but it’s evidence of failure of American occupation.
This is sad that it has played out this way, but it’s evidence of failure of American occupation.
I'm not saying the groups are the same - I'm saying the rush to try and clean up someone else's mess led to a separate and potentially worse mess.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
At least seven people died falling off the exterior of the plane when it was already airborne?
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
(CNN)Perhaps unhappy with the soaring profile of fellow Floridian Ron DeSantis among the Trumpist base of the Republican Party, Sen. Rick Scott decided to do something about it on Monday.
"After the disastrous events in Afghanistan, we must confront a serious question: Is Joe Biden capable of discharging the duties of his office or has time come to exercise the provisions of the 25th Amendment?" he tweeted.
"After the disastrous events in Afghanistan, we must confront a serious question: Is Joe Biden capable of discharging the duties of his office or has time come to exercise the provisions of the 25th Amendment?" he tweeted.
david
ONE love, blood, life
It’s a cluster$&ck. 20 years and billions of dollars wasted (but the military industrial complex and contractors profited greatly) look at where Afghanistan is now.
The right will use this to their advantage as a way to question Biden’s leadership skills. But honestly, Biden did himself zero favors with his decision and yesterday’s horrible press conference did not help at all.
The right will use this to their advantage as a way to question Biden’s leadership skills. But honestly, Biden did himself zero favors with his decision and yesterday’s horrible press conference did not help at all.
Americans care that we are done.
The media and right wing will spin this to take away from the covid disaster going on in the south. And the influx of children who are about to get really fucking sick over the next two months.
Biden did the right thing and i thought his speech yesterday was fine.
The media and right wing will spin this to take away from the covid disaster going on in the south. And the influx of children who are about to get really fucking sick over the next two months.
Biden did the right thing and i thought his speech yesterday was fine.
I give Biden props for doing the right thing by ending the war despite the inevitably that it will end up looking bad politically.
The rush to get out by an arbitrary and marketing friendly date, however, is what led to that inevitably happening quicker than anyone expected. That's on Biden.
The rush to get out by an arbitrary and marketing friendly date, however, is what led to that inevitably happening quicker than anyone expected. That's on Biden.
Biden being in DGAF mode regarding his own political career is probably what’s best for handling the ugly decisions but could severely hamper Harris’ 2024 chances, which were already questionable. America has a short attention span but Fox/OAN will make the “Democrats handed the Middle East back to terrorists” a daily mantra for the next 3 years of this continues to devolve.
phanan
Blue Crack Addict
The Biden administration is definitely at fault for how this withdrawal went down.
But he was screwed by Trump, and everyone knows it.
When you broker an agreement for peace but promise to withdraw by a certain timeframe, yeah, so much for peace.
Not surprisingly the Taliban increased their stranglehold on most of the country shortly after and violence ramped up to levels not seen in, oh, 20 years. Imagine that.
We can discuss how every administration since 9/11 bungled the Afghanistan operation in one form or another, and in retrospect it was doomed to fail, but make no mistake that Trump opened the floodgates.
But he was screwed by Trump, and everyone knows it.
When you broker an agreement for peace but promise to withdraw by a certain timeframe, yeah, so much for peace.
Not surprisingly the Taliban increased their stranglehold on most of the country shortly after and violence ramped up to levels not seen in, oh, 20 years. Imagine that.
We can discuss how every administration since 9/11 bungled the Afghanistan operation in one form or another, and in retrospect it was doomed to fail, but make no mistake that Trump opened the floodgates.
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
The withdrawal from Afghanistan presents a wonderful opportunity to converse about a difficult subject in a balanced, realistic manner. There have been US failures spanning 20 years in the region and far beyond when one considers our misguided efforts in South Vietnam. We can't shape countries into our own image and it's rarely popular at home. This is just one more in a long line of disasters stemming from US imperialism.
Sadly, this complex and challenging topic with meaningful implications for our position as a world power is being approached with the same deflections and political one upsmanship as every other issue we run into these days. It's fucking depressing but not surprising. The last four administrations have all bungled things in Afghanistan, which points to its occupation being a fundamentally bad idea to begin with.
Will we learn from this? I'm not sure how we would.
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I don’t get how we were so blind to the shit, and absolute corruption that was / is the Afghan government and military.
Did we really think these guys were going to put up a fight once the Taliban came marching in?
I believe that is on Biden’s admin. Tho i wonder how much intel was shared during the transition and even up to this point.
Let’s not forget that they were held out of everything
Did we really think these guys were going to put up a fight once the Taliban came marching in?
I believe that is on Biden’s admin. Tho i wonder how much intel was shared during the transition and even up to this point.
Let’s not forget that they were held out of everything
Gonna Run 2 U
New Yorker
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LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
It’s an interesting question. Biden has done something Trump did all presidency: give us literally what we asked for.
I haven’t checked but I am willing to wager a lot of money that ending the forever war had popular support, but the way it was done did not. Obama backed out of Iraq strategically and responsibly. And yet here we are with a similar outcome.
Gonna Run 2 U
New Yorker
Everything gets twisted back to Trump who I didn’t even bring up. Why can’t you guys admit that maybe Biden isn’t a good leader?
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LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
I accepted my dissatisfaction with Biden before I ever voted for him. As you'll recall, the options were limited.
You didn’t even bring him up but that was literally the only other choice, so it’s not like we’re crazy to ask about trump given your implication that Biden wasn’t the right choice.
As for your question, I think as a whole Biden’s been doing a decent job, actually. I never had sky high expectations for the man, but he’s not a walking catastrophe like the last guy. Oh darn, there I go bringing him up again…
He got a real covid relief bill passed and, barring craziness in the house, will do the same with infrastructure.
He's managed covid about as well as is possible to date, which is frankly Herculean when you consider what he was left with. My main critique was not pushing for as close to a mandate on vaccination as he legally could earlier. I think it should have been done the second the supply allowed it. To be fair - that time was only about a month and a half ago - a short time in the grand scheme of things - but I still think they should have done more earlier. Alas - they're doing it now.
Unfortunately to push us over the finish line we're going to need help from the other side, and I don't think there's a single president in our nation's history who would be capable of bridging that divide right now - as the other side - your side - has gone completely off the deep end.
This is what happens when 30-40% of the population fall into a cult. A death cult, at that. Florida and Texas have leaders who are literally killing off their constituents in order to perhaps show themselves to be the rightful next leader of the cult.
So great leadership? Perhaps not, but largely competent. And when you consider the disaster that he inherited, competent is pretty good. I think everyone with a fair and open mind who wasn't taken in by the cult would agree that getting ourselves out of the burning mess our country was in on January 20 was not something that was going to happen overnight.
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LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
I’m not sure if you were talking about my post, where I didn’t “twist” anything back to Trump. I indicated this is what Trump did / why people liked him.
Can we give the administration more than one fucking day with Afghanistan before saying his presidency and the man are a complete failure ??
While i don’t trust the Taliban and neither should anyone, how many American lives have been lost during this transition ? At this moment it appears as tho the Taliban are allowing safe passage for those getting out of Kabul. That takes some diplomacy to manage working with savages.
Maybe we need to take off our American exceptionalism when it comes to our military might too, cause we appear just as incompetent and corrupt there as any other branch of government. It’s a been a grift of tax payers well before Trump took over.
Let’s see how the US does to correct the evacuation of US and Afghans before burying the President on a policy nearly everyone supports.
The media have been salivating over anything to ding Biden on
As for Biden’s leadership
We went from 3000+ deaths a day when he took over to where we are now in another surge. This surge being driven by GOP southern states who refuse the vaccine to own the libs, or by government leaders opposing any common sense protocols.
Back in January we had vaccines but not clear path to distribute. I wasnt expecting to get my shots until this time in summer, instead i got it in late March.
Covid relief passed
Infrastructure week only took a few weeks, not four years of posturing. If it and the reconciliation bill pass that’s another huge win
The economy grew by a million jobs in July
Stock market continues to explode
I’d say so far that’s a great resume and it’s only been six months.
Name one President who’s done well in the Middle East ??
While i don’t trust the Taliban and neither should anyone, how many American lives have been lost during this transition ? At this moment it appears as tho the Taliban are allowing safe passage for those getting out of Kabul. That takes some diplomacy to manage working with savages.
Maybe we need to take off our American exceptionalism when it comes to our military might too, cause we appear just as incompetent and corrupt there as any other branch of government. It’s a been a grift of tax payers well before Trump took over.
Let’s see how the US does to correct the evacuation of US and Afghans before burying the President on a policy nearly everyone supports.
The media have been salivating over anything to ding Biden on
As for Biden’s leadership
We went from 3000+ deaths a day when he took over to where we are now in another surge. This surge being driven by GOP southern states who refuse the vaccine to own the libs, or by government leaders opposing any common sense protocols.
Back in January we had vaccines but not clear path to distribute. I wasnt expecting to get my shots until this time in summer, instead i got it in late March.
Covid relief passed
Infrastructure week only took a few weeks, not four years of posturing. If it and the reconciliation bill pass that’s another huge win
The economy grew by a million jobs in July
Stock market continues to explode
I’d say so far that’s a great resume and it’s only been six months.
Name one President who’s done well in the Middle East ??
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