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Old 11-11-2020, 11:45 AM   #981
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It's not nonsense and I don't think it's as complicated as wanting checks and balances. It can really be as simple as "orange man bad" but i also don't want to vote for Democrats because they'll tax all my money, make me eat plant burgers to save the world from cow farts and take away my police department.

Most Americans don't even know what checks and balances means.

I had a balance beam when I was a child!
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Old 11-11-2020, 12:10 PM   #982
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It's not nonsense and I don't think it's as complicated as wanting checks and balances. It can really be as simple as "orange man bad" but i also don't want to vote for Democrats because they'll tax all my money, make me eat plant burgers to save the world from cow farts and take away my police department.

Most Americans don't even know what checks and balances means.

Based upon everything we’re seeing in the numbers, Black people showed up in urban areas and white people showed up in suburban and rural areas. Yes, Biden did better than Clinton did, but HEZ to show that Clinton was simply missing voters. However, Donald Trump did better than Donald Trump did in 2016.

Larger vote count wins statewide positions like senate and governor. Plurality of precincts wins seats. There’s limited to no data to suggest that split ballots were particularly influential in this election, and it’s downright wrong to suggest they are knowing fine well that you’re misplacing credit for why this election turned out the way it did. Black people.
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Old 11-11-2020, 12:15 PM   #983
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Larger vote count wins statewide positions like senate and governor. Plurality of precincts wins seats. There’s limited to no data to suggest that split ballots were particularly influential in this election, and it’s downright wrong to suggest they are knowing fine well that you’re misplacing credit for why this election turned out the way it did. Black people.
Talk about absurd takes...

Black people, indigenous communities (see the exit polls of Navajo nation, for example) absolutely played a key role.

Black people showing up in droves to vote in no way explains the overperformance by Republican candidates for the Senate or the House, unless your take is that blacks showed up in large numbers to vote against Trump and then left the rest of the ballot blank. Which makes a whole lot of sense in MAINE where Collins won by 9 points.
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Old 11-11-2020, 01:01 PM   #984
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Based upon everything we’re seeing in the numbers, Black people showed up in urban areas and white people showed up in suburban and rural areas. Yes, Biden did better than Clinton did, but HEZ to show that Clinton was simply missing voters. However, Donald Trump did better than Donald Trump did in 2016.

Larger vote count wins statewide positions like senate and governor. Plurality of precincts wins seats. There’s limited to no data to suggest that split ballots were particularly influential in this election, and it’s downright wrong to suggest they are knowing fine well that you’re misplacing credit for why this election turned out the way it did. Black people.
Who the hell is misplacing credit? Just because one thing is true doesn't mean that the other thing didn't also happen - nor does saying that there were split ballot voters downplay the importance of black and indigenous persons in Joe Biden's victory.
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Old 11-11-2020, 01:08 PM   #985
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I had a balance beam when I was a child!


Headache pushes children off balance beams just because he's mean.
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Old 11-11-2020, 01:16 PM   #986
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He has nothing else on his schedule because reportedly he isn't even working these days.

Showed up late and stayed for six minutes.


Molly McKew
@MollyMcKew

POTUS has nothing else on sched today but is nonetheless late to Arlington National Cemetery to honor veterans on Veterans Day, keeping decorated veterans, their families, and others waiting in the rain, not understanding the significance of the day, hour, minute of commemoration.
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Old 11-11-2020, 01:41 PM   #987
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https://twitter.com/fchollet/status/...954407425?s=21

FaceBook will end us all...

Little thread in link
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Old 11-11-2020, 01:55 PM   #988
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I don't know if there were 16 points worth of fuck it votes, though.


Defund the police is, has, and always will be an absolutely terrible slogan to use and I have zero doubt that this, along with ACAB and many other things that far left protesters used throughout the summer, cost Biden some votes.
"Defund the Police" was/is a bad slogan. I'm sure votes were lost.

What the heck is ACAB? While I probably will know it in full form - I can't figure the acronym!

IDK if I'd call some of those things "far left", though.

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Mainly no responses which can be taken as a positive. One distant cousin did tell me I was a tree hugging faggot though and I simply responded with “that word wasn’t even acceptable 25 years ago and my girlfriend is female”.

So pretty well!
Heh!
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Old 11-11-2020, 01:57 PM   #989
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US Politics XXX: The type of film Donald wants to watch Ivanka in

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FaceBook will end us all...


Nah. Too many people who like to tell lies and are mad about getting caught in it are jumping to Parler instead, to intensify their echo chamber.
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Old 11-11-2020, 01:59 PM   #990
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Trump appearing in public for Veterans Day makes me feel ill.
Soooo understandable.

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Maybe this will quell the nausea for a moment:

https://twitter.com/ReesusP/status/1326245031821287424
I saw that yesterday!

Great to see again (and again)! Thx.
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Old 11-11-2020, 02:10 PM   #991
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Talk about absurd takes...



Black people, indigenous communities (see the exit polls of Navajo nation, for example) absolutely played a key role.



Black people showing up in droves to vote in no way explains the overperformance by Republican candidates for the Senate or the House, unless your take is that blacks showed up in large numbers to vote against Trump and then left the rest of the ballot blank. Which makes a whole lot of sense in MAINE where Collins won by 9 points.


I’m very confused with your post. It reads like you’re telling me off, but then agreeing with me also.

I’m not seeing this supposed over-performance of republican candidates. Susan Collins in not-black Maine isn’t a good example, but if you’re going to use that example then sure, to the point you just made... in a state where black voters could not show up en masse because they do not exist en masse, you did not see a republican beat down in an otherwise absolutely purple-blue state. To your question about people leaving the ballot blank, that plays a part in it for sure. In Maine, 3% of the voters in fact voted for president and not for senator. An additional 4.3% voted for a more liberal candidate for senate likely because of ranked voting. There were also 5x more write ins for senate than there were for president.

You’re seriously under-estimating how many people showed up for or against the president.


Otherwise though, we witnessed two candidates break voting records. In states like Georgia, the proof is in the pudding. They’re gerrymandered to hell. Atlanta and other black urban cities swung the state blue, but yet places like Augusta and Savannah which swung blue are both sitting in red districts for red congresspeople because that’s how Georgia “conveniently” has its districts drawn.

421,000 people in Georgia (just shy of 10% of voters) did not vote for their congressperson, in all likelihood because either they just showed up to vote for or against the president, or because they did not invest in their local elections either out of lack of knowledge or out of understanding that the districts are pretty much decided and are not competitive.


From Pew, just 4% of voters indicated a R/D split preference.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...ate-and-house/

Again, where is this concept coming from that there were hearts and minds changed? This was two offenses going toe to toe, not some suburban revival of people who changed their mind about Donald Trump.
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Old 11-11-2020, 03:00 PM   #992
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Good explanatory thread:

https://twitter.com/awprokop/status/1326536823644938246
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Old 11-11-2020, 03:07 PM   #993
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Again, where is this concept coming from that there were hearts and minds changed? This was two offenses going toe to toe, not some suburban revival of people who changed their mind about Donald Trump.
I honestly don't even understand what you are talking about in this paragraph. Who has claimed that hearts and minds were changed?

YES it was absolutely a referendum on Trump. NO, nobody here has claimed otherwise.

But there were many factors - some more impactful than others - that played a role in the final results. And there were many examples of where congressional candidates overperformed Trump. They aren't all tied to black voters leaving a blank ballot. There are a number of people, mostly those who are in the upper class, who can't stomach Trump on a personal level and didn't vote for him, but DO NOT MIND the concept of a Republican Senate continuing to hand out tax breaks or limit the extent of tax raises. You seem to pretend like this is so nuanced as to make it impossible for such people to exist. Yet they do, and while their numbers are not vast, in close elections, they do matter. All I am saying is that such a component of the voting population very likely submitted a straight-Republican ballot but voted for Biden at the top of the ticket. I mean, anecdotally my husband knows literally droves of these types.
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Old 11-11-2020, 04:10 PM   #994
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I honestly don't even understand what you are talking about in this paragraph. Who has claimed that hearts and minds were changed?



YES it was absolutely a referendum on Trump. NO, nobody here has claimed otherwise.



But there were many factors - some more impactful than others - that played a role in the final results. And there were many examples of where congressional candidates overperformed Trump. They aren't all tied to black voters leaving a blank ballot. There are a number of people, mostly those who are in the upper class, who can't stomach Trump on a personal level and didn't vote for him, but DO NOT MIND the concept of a Republican Senate continuing to hand out tax breaks or limit the extent of tax raises. You seem to pretend like this is so nuanced as to make it impossible for such people to exist. Yet they do, and while their numbers are not vast, in close elections, they do matter. All I am saying is that such a component of the voting population very likely submitted a straight-Republican ballot but voted for Biden at the top of the ticket. I mean, anecdotally my husband knows literally droves of these types.


It’s like you ignored every fruitful part of my post and just repeated your criticism.

The notion that suburban split tickets played a notable role in electing red congresspeople and a blue president is EXACTLY what you’re saying and it’s EXACTLY what headache was saying. That is suggesting that people in fact wanted the republicans but maybe didn’t want Trump. That’s NOT TRUE. The same people who voted for Trump in 2016 showed up for him in 2020 (and more). The most pronounced difference is that apathetic blue voters (or people who just hated Trump) who didn’t show up for Clinton showed up to destroy Trump.

Any suggestion that split ballots played a role and otherwise these voters voted for red congresspeople and senators is total bullshit. Nowhere do any numbers support that claim.

You going out there and projecting your claim as though it’s my claim is weak sauce. I never said “black voters just left the ballots blank la de da.” But I did say that you absolutely are discounting the fact that a non negligible amount of the population did in fact only vote for president, and to think that doesn’t play a role down ballot is naive.

More importantly, you widely just ignored the point about 4% of voters indicating they desired an R/D split ticket. You also seemingly ignored the notion that, much like the electoral college, congressional voting isn’t determined by a simple majority. It’s determined by how lines are drawn.

What do you want to hear? People split their ballots? Of course they did. To what level? Probably the same level as always before. Did it play a role in this outcome? Probably in incredibly tight states like Georgia. Everywhere else, voter turnout was the main reason. Split ballots isn’t part of this narrative. This is like railing on a couple hundred Ralph Nader voters for the year 2000 in Florida. Totally misplaced anger.
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Old 11-11-2020, 04:20 PM   #995
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so ... how is The Other Place responding to the news?
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Old 11-11-2020, 04:49 PM   #996
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It's part of my inhumanity.

The most frustrating conversations of the last 4+ years is obviously with those on the right who are living in an alternate universe.

The second most frustrating conversations are trying to convince people you agr with in principle that the way they are presenting their good ideas will play poorly with, oh, most people - because most people do not pay as close attention to these things and are not as nuanced on the details of what you're saying.

One thing that the republicans so very very well is dumb down their message.

Everyone can get on board with the idea that the rich are too fucking rich right now and something needs to be done. But the word socialism still scares people over the age of 40.

My Trump supporting aunt will fight to the death over anyone trying to touch her social security payments and gets offended when anyone calls them an entitlement because "she earned it." It's incredibly dumb - yet also reality. She thinks socialism = communism and can not be convinced otherwise - and is against "the welfare state" and tax and spend elite Democrats.

Most people will agree that racism is a problem and that our police departments need reform - but they'll bristle at "defund the police" or think "white privilege" is bullshit because they may have grown up poor or worked hard to get where they were so they're offended at the idea that they were privileged in any way. I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with friends or relatives about how white privilege doesn't mean that you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth but it still goes right over their heads in most cases.

Much like jokes - if you have to spend a lot of time explaining to the average Joe why your slogan or idea is actually good, then it's a bad fucking slogan.
I don't understand the millennial leftists' obsession with tje word "socialist." It's like it hasn't occurred to them that a century of anti-socialist propaganda hasn't had a profound effect that's been passed down through the generations. The word has so much power it renders the "democratic" that frequently and fashionably prefaces it invisible, and it's so dark that it makes the policies behind it impossible to see, even if they're policies that are popular.

Or maybe they understand the weight of the word and just want to say "well ACTUALLY, socialism is..." and so their sense of moral superiority can dance with intellectual superiority.
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Old 11-11-2020, 04:49 PM   #997
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethi...nor-races/amp/


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pew...-rare/%3famp=1

And there’s otherwise article upon article upon article talking about how split ticket voting is down down down.
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Old 11-11-2020, 05:14 PM   #998
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https://www.theonion.com/i-i-am-the-...tuc-1845646901
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Old 11-11-2020, 05:32 PM   #999
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This was a referendum on Trump and the notion that Susan Collins victory in buttfuck Maine is a signal that people wanted Biden + Republicans is absurd.


All this Maine talk and Collins hate hysteria is fun.

Collins/Manchin 2024 !
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Old 11-11-2020, 05:47 PM   #1000
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All this Maine talk and Collins hate hysteria is fun.



Collins/Manchin 2024 !


That’s what we need, two bumbling buffoons who will say anything and do anything to get them elected rather than just straight up support what the majority of their state actually wants.
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