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Old 09-30-2020, 09:22 AM   #361
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I don't think it's a lie. And Orange Interruptus has politicized covid more than anyone else ever has. If you don't mention the number of covid deaths, they magically decrease ICYMI

The Hill.com

The Trump campaign on Tuesday denied that it requested debate moderators not mention the number of U.S. COVID-19 deaths during the first 2020 presidential debate.


A staff writer for The Atlantic posted on Twitter that Biden's deputy campaign manager and communications director Kate Bedingfield said the Trump campaign asked as a condition for Tuesday's Fox News debate moderator, Chris Wallace, not to mention the over 200,000 American deaths from the coronavirus during the debate.


The tweet was blasted by the Trump campaign's director of communications Tim Murtaugh, who called the reporting "a lie."


Murtaugh denied the request was ever made, saying, "This is a lie and a continuation of the politicization of a public health crisis that Biden has been engaged in for months."
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Old 09-30-2020, 09:41 AM   #362
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It's amazing what 4 years of being completely sealed off from any criticism, surrounded by yes-men and women, and watching Fox News all day can do to a person (and it's not like he started off as a normal person).
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Old 09-30-2020, 09:44 AM   #363
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It's amazing what 4 years of being completely sealed off from any criticism, surrounded by yes-men and women, and watching Fox News all day can do to a person (and it's not like he started off as a normal person).


4 years??

His entire life.
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Old 09-30-2020, 09:49 AM   #364
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4 years??

His entire life.
Exactly
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Old 09-30-2020, 09:51 AM   #365
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His father was his original yes man, and most of his family also enabled him.
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Old 09-30-2020, 09:56 AM   #366
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I understand that Biden didn't set himself apart last night, but I'm not sure what else he could have done beyond walking over and punching the clown show in the face.

Would merely shouting back at him have really made last night better for anyone?

I don't want to hear "iF oNlY iT wAs BeRnIe/LiZ/aNyOnE" bullshit.

The other party entered the stage in bad faith and had zero intention of actually holding a debate. I can't even blame Chris Wallace. Short of a kill switch, what would you have had him do?

Trump won't debate because he has nothing to debate about - so he needs to simply burn down the stage and hope nobody notices.


I’m not sure what people think anyone is supposed to do here. Biden did exactly what he was supposed to do. Made Trump look like a clown.
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Old 09-30-2020, 09:57 AM   #367
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Donnie Jr-lots of coffee last night?

https://youtu.be/U3XhebhC2EE
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:05 AM   #368
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4 years??

His entire life.
Yes. But I think there is a noticeable difference today. Yes it's still the same narcissist, but he's more unhinged, paranoid and unable to take criticism.
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:13 AM   #369
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Biden's biggest whiff was not using Trump's "you can't say that, you'll lose the left!" shtick on the white supremacist balk.

"You can't actively denounce white supremacy, you'll lose your base!" would have destroyed him.
ehh, I would think he's a little gun shy considering Hillary's "Deplorables" comment blew up in her face last time.

That indeed was a mess, was anyone expecting something different though?
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:15 AM   #370
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His father was his original yes man, and most of his family also enabled him.
That's not entirely true. His father was incredibly harsh and cold to him, and the family is full of crazy infighting and conflict.
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:20 AM   #371
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This may sound crazy in light of last night - but I think last night was actually the most prepared Trump looked for one of these things.

He clearly had a plan and a goal and for better or worse he accomplished what he set out to do.

That's not to say the plan was a good one, or that it'll be effective - but if his goal was to not give his opponent any oxygen? Mission accomplished.
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:20 AM   #372
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I think Biden did have chances to come back that he didn't take. But again. The format of the debate prevented this if he followed the rules. Trump saying that Biden called black criminals superpredators, was a clear, wide open shot for Biden to bring up the Channel 4 story of Trump labeling black and latino voters as "deterrents". Just as one example.
But again, most likely his reply would have been shouted over, and probably would not have even been heard.

some silver linings - in post debate polls of who people thought won. Biden won by about 15 points in one, and about 30+ points in another on CNN. Also on CNN. They had 14 undecided voters. 6 made up their mind after the debate. 4 for Biden, 2 for Trump.
Also, the next debate being a town hall style will most likely take this whole dynamic away. I'm sure it will still be messy, but if Trump is shouting over Biden as he's speaking with an audience member, it will play even worse.

Like I said. Biden did fine. He was thrown off and the stutter came out because of it. But in the end, he is the one 7-8 points up. Trump was the one that needed to show why he should be reelected. He did the opposite.
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:24 AM   #373
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This may sound crazy in light of last night - but I think last night was actually the most prepared Trump looked for one of these things.

He clearly had a plan and a goal and for better or worse he accomplished what he set out to do.
This is very true. Just that his "plan" was to make it so no one could speak or understand anything, and to create chaos and confusion (sound familiar?) and pretty much make it a useless act of futility by having the whole time spent telling him he needs to stop talking.

So yes, he accomplished that. He also energized about 35% of the electorate that was already voting for him feel real good for 1.5 hours. While most likely pushing away more women, more indys, more suburbanites, and probably some of the African American voters.
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:38 AM   #374
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So WI is voting and they are coming out strong.

So far 350,000 ballots have been returned.

Dane County where Clinton won by almost 50 points has turned in 70,000 ballots, that's nearly 40% of all the absentee ballots that were sent out in that county.

Hoping now the at the first debate is done, we will see higher amounts of people sending in ballots across the country, cause i think everyone saw all they needed to see.
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:46 AM   #375
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That's not entirely true. His father was incredibly harsh and cold to him, and the family is full of crazy infighting and conflict.
Yes he was, but in that family Donnie was still his favorite compared to his other kids. He certainly enabled him with money, that's what mattered in that family. Not love. That's why all human relationships are transactional to Trump and people don't matter to him.

The family yessed Donald Trump all over the place and created his narcissism. I read Mary Trump's book, and I find her to be very credible. The book title says it all-Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created the World's Most Dangerous Man
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:47 AM   #376
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Also on CNN. They had 14 undecided voters. 6 made up their mind after the debate. 4 for Biden, 2 for Trump.
I'm so sick of these idiotic "undecided" voters watching the debate. I believe that exactly zero of them arrived undecided.

Like the guy who was offended that Biden would call the PRESIDENT a "clown" and thus bring down the discourse to that level. While Trump is acting like a monkey flinging feces across the stage. Yeah, sure, he's an undecided.
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:52 AM   #377
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This is very true. Just that his "plan" was to make it so no one could speak or understand anything, and to create chaos and confusion (sound familiar?) and pretty much make it a useless act of futility by having the whole time spent telling him he needs to stop talking.

So yes, he accomplished that. He also energized about 35% of the electorate that was already voting for him feel real good for 1.5 hours. While most likely pushing away more women, more indys, more suburbanites, and probably some of the African American voters.
Yea but if the argument is already that he's not really trying to win legitimately, rather to force chaos, apathy towards the process, and a cluttered mess on election day that will be sorted out in the courts? On that Trump had a good night.
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:59 AM   #378
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I'm so sick of these idiotic "undecided" voters watching the debate. I believe that exactly zero of them arrived undecided.

Like the guy who was offended that Biden would call the PRESIDENT a "clown" and thus bring down the discourse to that level. While Trump is acting like a monkey flinging feces across the stage. Yeah, sure, he's an undecided.
I totally agree here. I groaned when I saw this segment, because even in the people's answers on why they "decided" the way they did, it was pretty obvious that they were already decided. But, i do think it shows what the polls have shown. If asked who they would chose if they HAD to choose, Biden is winning that group by about 20 points. And what Trump did last night would only solidify that number.
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Old 09-30-2020, 11:04 AM   #379
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Yea but if the argument is already that he's not really trying to win legitimately, rather to force chaos, apathy towards the process, and a cluttered mess on election day that will be sorted out in the courts? On that Trump had a good night.
True enough. But I think there is a flaw in his plan. If he acts like this, it energizes a much larger group of voters to get out and vote, it pushes indy, middle, "undecideds" toward Biden. Trumps plan may be to cause apathy, but I think by going this over the top, it will/is actually doing the opposite.

Trumps best bet is to have a very close election result so he can tie things up in the courts. If he is boosting turnout because he's acting "like a crackhead" as one "undecided" voter said, it is going to make the margin of victory for Biden larger, thus giving him fewer states to contest the vote in.
If Biden wins clear victories in MI, WI, and PA, along with NE-2 and ME-2 as a bonus, Trump can contest NC, FL, GA, IA, OH, etc... all he wants, but he still won't bring the numbers up to over 270.
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Old 09-30-2020, 11:13 AM   #380
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"2 threads beat as one..."
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