US Politics XXV: At Least We're Not Australia

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BEAL said:
What a bullshit story. There’s not one person who’s believed Donald Trump respects anyone other than himself.

Sounds more like they’re trying to reconcile with the fact they’re a horrible person for supporting him.

Nearly have this country is a death cult. Trump could have ICE execute the children in those camps down at the border and they would celebrate in the streets.

A underage kid, unlawfully with a assault rifle killed two people and wounded a third and this cult has turned him into a hero. A Christian foundation has raised over $400,000 in his name for legal funds etc.

A society can only function if it’s populace follows basic norms and laws. We now have a party and almost half country of trolls.

There is nothing Trump can do to lose this base. Nothing. Anyone on the fence, if there are any, are more concerned with getting caught voting for him than any moral or ethical reasoning.

We have to vote in such large numbers to have any chance to temporarily halt this madness. And it may not be enough.

A buddy of mine thinks all of this goes away if Biden wins. That the militias, Qs, and GOP go back in hiding and as long as we don’t poke the bear with any sort of attack on 2A, life returns to normal.

Maybe he’s right (tho it solves nothing) but i worth that we’ll see something like the IRA in Northern Ireland. Sporadic terrorist attacks on government and/or liberal establishments.

I just don’t see how all of this anger and fever go away. Especially since the right will attack Biden on the debt and deficit immediately and blame him for the economic troubles still to come.

What a fucking mess
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I think it's going to be extraordinarily interesting to see what happens to the Republican party if Biden wins. Something like 35% of Reps think Qanon is "mostly true" Let that sink in.

Does the party fracture at some point into Rabid lunatic party and Old white lower taxes on the rich party? I don't see these two sides coming together under a Romney or a Hailey.

It's just staggering at how one sick and twisted person has completely flipped an 166 year old political party into complete nonsense and madness.

It will take a generation to recover from one term. If it's two... No recovery in our lifetime.
 
"russia is paying terrorists to kill us and the president doesn't care" is a way way way way bigger deal to any military service member and their families than "the president calls us mean names".

this story isn't going to move the needle at all.
 
DaveC said:
"russia is paying terrorists to kill us and the president doesn't care" is a way way way way bigger deal to any military service member and their families than "the president calls us mean names".

this story isn't going to move the needle at all.
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Sure. Vets and their brothers/sisters in arms, love to be called losers, especially by a high heel wearing draft-dodger. Wounded and disabled vets love to hear that same person say that no one wants to look at them.

If at the very least it eats up 4 or 5 days of news, and dominates the Sunday shows, then it still will be detrimental to Trump. NC ballots go out today.

To be fair - the bounties stories, while I believe it is true, did have some people back off of it saying that they didn't have concrete evidence, but anecdotal. And some money trails that could possibly back it up.
 
womanfish said:
Sure. Vets and their brothers/sisters in arms, love to be called losers, especially by a high heel wearing draft-dodger. Wounded and disabled vets love to hear that same person say that no one wants to look at them.
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lmao okay. i'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you've forgotten that i served in the military for four years. i probably know a little better than you do how these people think, considering, ya know, i'm one of them.
 
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DaveC said:
lmao okay. i'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you've forgotten that i served in the military for four years. i probably know a little better than you do how these people think, considering, ya know, i'm one of them.
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Hey, I didn't know. I salute you for doing what I don't think I could do.

What's your view on the Military Times poll with Biden winning active military over Trump, which may be the first time ever a Dem has led with military members. You don't think a story like this will shift those numbers even a bit? I mean, as a vet, how does it make you feel when you read this??

I also think it may resonate more with people who are just regular Americans that have this built in patriotic support of the military. Say you're one of those that don't really like either of them. A story like this I think may be one to push them away from Trump. But that's just my gut.
The story is definitely all over today.
Biden giving another good speech, leading off with a really good push on this.
 
womanfish said:
What's your view on the Military Times poll with Biden winning active military over Trump, which may be the first time ever a Dem has led with military members. You don't think a story like this will shift those numbers even a bit? I mean, as a vet, how does it make you feel when you read this??
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not really, no. everyone in the military has been called far worse things than that by their drill sergeants on their first day in boot camp. it sucks to hear that your commander-in-chief thinks that way about you and i'm sure they don't appreciate it all that much, but military commanders disdaining their troops in private is nothing new. nobody who was still planning yesterday to vote for trump is going to vote for biden now strictly because of this.

if the c-in-c not caring about the russian bounties didn't push them over the edge then this certainly won't. the only effect i think this will have is to reinforce the decision of those military and vets who have already decided to vote for biden as a result of the bounties or whatever else.
 
So after my anger has subsided a bit, and taking DaveC's post and others in consideration. I think that the best thing coming from this disgusting story, is that the news cycle has been taken over. Law and order not mentioned once. Putting Trump on the defense and not in control of narrative for the time being.

Not a bad place to be as first mail in ballots are sent out, and the long labor day weekend, and I think we may see some evidence of any effect of this in the huge round of polls that will be coming out around Sept 14th.
 
There is no controversy that will move his base. They're locked in. I know, because I've seen it in my own family and it eats me away inside. It's crazy depressing to see someone you love more or less brainwashed by a cult.

But, to quote an asshole, it is what it is.

There are still undecideds in this country - because there's a large number of people who don't pay an iota of attention to anything political. Most of them don't vote, but some of them do make the appearance once every 4 years.

For those people every one of these controversies pushes the needle a little further towards Biden. And that's fine, cause we'll need every vote we can get.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
There is no controversy that will move his base. They're locked in. I know, because I've seen it in my own family and it eats me away inside. It's crazy depressing to see someone you love more or less brainwashed by a cult.

But, to quote an asshole, it is what it is.

There are still undecideds in this country - because there's a large number of people who don't pay an iota of attention to anything political. Most of them don't vote, but some of them do make the appearance once every 4 years.

For those people every one of these controversies pushes the needle a little further towards Biden. And that's fine, cause we'll need every vote we can get.
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how is someone who doesn't pay an iota of attention to anything political going to be affected by this political story? not trying to be snarky, i just don't really understand how this is the thing that is going to tip a zero-information voter into doing anything other than checking the box next to the R or the D like they always do. it might cause a few people to stay home but that benefits the incumbent anyways.
 
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DaveC said:
how is someone who doesn't pay an iota of attention to anything political going to be affected by this political story? not trying to be snarky, i just don't really understand how this is the thing that is going to tip a zero-information voter into doing anything other than checking the box next to the R or the D like they always do. it might cause a few people to stay home but that benefits the incumbent anyways.
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Because is getting near the 30-50 day window where they actually begin to pay a modicum of attention.
 
DaveC said:
how is someone who doesn't pay an iota of attention to anything political going to be affected by this political story? not trying to be snarky, i just don't really understand how this is the thing that is going to tip a zero-information voter into doing anything other than checking the box next to the R or the D like they always do. it might cause a few people to stay home but that benefits the incumbent anyways.
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It may not be this story, but I think with those undecideds who don't pay much attention, it comes down how they are feeling overall. Like LuckyNumber7 said, Covid and unemployment and school and finances are still going to rule the day. And that most likely means Biden, or at least a change from the current president is going to win out.
 
The story has now been confirmed by Fox News, so hold on for Trump meltdown. LOL

And for those that thought no one would care and the story wouldn't make it to tonight. Well even I'm surprised how much this is taking off. I think the best thing about Trump, is that because he flatly denies everything, it feeds the length of every bad story.
He continues to deny, and every time a new news organization confirms it, or even adds to it, the story lives on.

I'm thinking we will be on this for at least through Tuesday before it let's up, unless even more comes out, then we will see.

Top trending on Twitter at points today - WWII, Korean War, Vietnam, WeRespectVets, MyDad... All people posting pictures of their loved ones who have fought and many that have died.

And imbeds are saying the WH/Trump team is in panic mode.

Nice to have some good news after the last couple weeks.
 
Trump supporters demanding that these reports are fake because “sources”

Yet Trump supporters believe in a mysterious character named Q
 
I just don't even know what to say...150 times


Washington(CNN)President Donald Trump cited the Veterans Choice health care program on Thursday as evidence that he has done more for veterans than the late Sen. John McCain.

There are two big problems here.

One: Choice was signed into law by President Barack Obama in 2014.

Two: It was McCain's bill.

McCain, a Navy veteran who was held as a prisoner of war for more than five years during the Vietnam War, was a lead author of the bipartisan legislation -- putting it together with Sen. Bernie Sanders, another frequent target of Trump criticism.

Trump has lied more than 150 times that he is responsible for getting the Choice program created. It's an especially egregious bit of deception, though, when he takes credit for McCain's own initiative to argue he has been superior to McCain. When he did the same thing in 2019, we called it one of his 12 most notable lies of the year.

Trump made his latest comments about McCain while denying a report in The Atlantic magazine that alleged he had made various disparaging remarks about US soldiers who were killed, wounded or captured. The report said he had called McCain a "loser" after McCain died in 2018 and had expressed opposition to lowering flags to half-staff in McCain's honor.

In Trump's denial, he said on Twitter and to the media that he had not made these remarks -- although, he added, he thinks McCain was less successful than he has been in taking care of veterans.

"I disagreed with him with respect to the vets and the taking care of the VA. I wanted to do it a much different way, and I think it's proven to be a much more successful way when you look at the success we've had with the VA and with our vets -- with Choice and with Accountability, all the things I've got," he said after disembarking Air Force One after a trip to Pennsylvania.

Again, Choice -- which allowed certain veterans to be covered by the government for receiving care from doctors outside the VA health system -- is not something Trump "got." What Trump actually signed was the VA MISSION Act of 2018, which modified and expanded the private-care program created by the Choice bill.

The full name of the VA MISSION Act honors McCain: it is the John S. McCain III, Daniel K. Akaka, and Samuel R. Johnson VA Maintaining Internal Systems and Strengthening Integrated Outside Networks Act of 2018.

Trump made at least one other false claim in his denial: he said he had "never" called McCain a loser. In fact, he did so at a 2015 event in Iowa, on camera -- saying of McCain's defeat in the 2008 presidential election, "I never liked him as much after that, because I don't like losers."

Later the same day, he tweeted out an article that was headlined, "Donald Trump: John McCain Is 'A Loser.'"
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
I just don't even know what to say...150 times


Washington(CNN)President Donald Trump cited the Veterans Choice health care program on Thursday as evidence that he has done more for veterans than the late Sen. John McCain.

There are two big problems here.

One: Choice was signed into law by President Barack Obama in 2014.

Two: It was McCain's bill.

McCain, a Navy veteran who was held as a prisoner of war for more than five years during the Vietnam War, was a lead author of the bipartisan legislation -- putting it together with Sen. Bernie Sanders, another frequent target of Trump criticism.

Trump has lied more than 150 times that he is responsible for getting the Choice program created. It's an especially egregious bit of deception, though, when he takes credit for McCain's own initiative to argue he has been superior to McCain. When he did the same thing in 2019, we called it one of his 12 most notable lies of the year.

Trump made his latest comments about McCain while denying a report in The Atlantic magazine that alleged he had made various disparaging remarks about US soldiers who were killed, wounded or captured. The report said he had called McCain a "loser" after McCain died in 2018 and had expressed opposition to lowering flags to half-staff in McCain's honor.

In Trump's denial, he said on Twitter and to the media that he had not made these remarks -- although, he added, he thinks McCain was less successful than he has been in taking care of veterans.

"I disagreed with him with respect to the vets and the taking care of the VA. I wanted to do it a much different way, and I think it's proven to be a much more successful way when you look at the success we've had with the VA and with our vets -- with Choice and with Accountability, all the things I've got," he said after disembarking Air Force One after a trip to Pennsylvania.

Again, Choice -- which allowed certain veterans to be covered by the government for receiving care from doctors outside the VA health system -- is not something Trump "got." What Trump actually signed was the VA MISSION Act of 2018, which modified and expanded the private-care program created by the Choice bill.

The full name of the VA MISSION Act honors McCain: it is the John S. McCain III, Daniel K. Akaka, and Samuel R. Johnson VA Maintaining Internal Systems and Strengthening Integrated Outside Networks Act of 2018.

Trump made at least one other false claim in his denial: he said he had "never" called McCain a loser. In fact, he did so at a 2015 event in Iowa, on camera -- saying of McCain's defeat in the 2008 presidential election, "I never liked him as much after that, because I don't like losers."

Later the same day, he tweeted out an article that was headlined, "Donald Trump: John McCain Is 'A Loser.'"
Click to expand...

Not sure what to say? Just ask McCain's good friend Linsdsey

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/622457428676886528
 
It's amazing to think that Howard Dean was once the 'progressive' candidate in the Democratic primary. Maybe some things do get better over time.
 
Vlad n U 2 said:
It's amazing to think that Howard Dean was once the 'progressive' candidate in the Democratic primary. Maybe some things do get better over time.
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The world is a worse place because he wasn’t selected.

I think the issue is not how progressive the candidate is, but whether or not you went with the most progressive one you could squeeze in there.
 
It’s entirely unfair to pick out Osama Bin Laden’s family, who are probably all either sympathetic to terrorists or mentally scarred and can never live a normal life.

People might be generally fucked up, but a select few like that have solid reasons.
 
Gotta love the Biden is still impervious to any attack that Trump has thrown at him. They've yet to land a punch and people have started early voting.

CNN finds 58% of Americans say Trump's response to protests has been "more harmful."

Ipsos finds 59% say Biden would do better at reducing violence.

from NYT:

Trump's "rhetoric about rioting in a handful of cities does not appear to have swayed moderates, strategists in both parties said."

"That is a serious problem," given the "pressure on Trump to win over new voters."

https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1302617333857497091

Nate Silver -
If you're behind, you only have so many chances to turn the campaign around, and Trump whiffed on a couple of chances this week.
He did not get much help from his convention.
Nor does his "LAW AND ORDER" focus seem to working, at least if you trust the polls.

Quinnipiac -
Asked which candidate would "make you feel more safe or less safe":

-Trump-
More safe: 35%
Less safe: 50%

-Biden-
More safe: 42%
Less safe: 40%

That's the opposite of what you would expect if Trump's law and order campaign was successful at stroking White backlash.
But it's not just the Biden vs. Trump polling that indicates Trump's efforts are currently failing.
Take a look at the polling on crime and criminal justice. The issue isn't as bad for Trump as the coronavirus pandemic, and these polls result are somewhat subject to question wording. Still, it's clear that the crime issue isn't the slam dunk for Trump as it might have appeared to be.

Our CNN poll had Biden ahead of Trump by a 7-point margin on who they thought, if elected, would do a better job on the criminal justice system in the United States. Biden was favored by a 6-point margin on who would keep Americans safe from harm.

The swing state polling doesn't look much better for Trump. Fox News polled likely voters in Arizona, North Carolina and Wisconsin on who they thought would be better at handling policing and criminal justice. In both Arizona and Wisconsin, voters said Biden would be better by a 5-point margin. Biden and Trump were basically tied in North Carolina (47% for Trump to 46% for Biden, well within the margin of error).

The Wisconsin polling is especially notable because Jacob Blake was shot in Kenosha, Wisconsin. It's where protests and riots have been taking place since that shooting two weeks ago. Yet, the shooting or the aftermath doesn't seem (at least in the polling) to have helped Trump in the Badger State. Not only does he trail Biden on the policing and criminal justice question, but he was down 8 points to Biden in the horserace.
 
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womanfish said:
Well, the Trumpletons are screaming for quotes from named sources...

https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1302408524748726272

“Trump held a meeting at Trump Tower with prominent evangelical leaders, where they laid their hands on him in prayer. Afterward, Trump allegedly said: ‘Can you believe that bulls--t? Can you believe people believe that bulls--t?’”
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I think my new favorite Trump defense is claiming that the stories aren't true because Michael Cohen was convicted for lying to congress.

He was convicted for saying Trump stopped pursuing Trump Tower Moscow early in the 2016 campaign after it was proven that he continued to pursue it deep into the campaign.

That's one hell of a hill to die on.
 
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