US Politics XXV: At Least We're Not Australia

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Hewson said:
The question is have they changed their stance since last election. If they have, then no issue. If not, its a problem.

There are lots of folks who voted for him in 2016 thinking he was an outsider who was going to shake things up, they were sold a bill of goods. Belichick had a relationship with him going back to NY days, Kraft had a business relationship. I doubt either (plus many hundreds of thousands maybe millions of average voters) ever fathomed a Trump presidency would turn out the way it has.
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It wasn't really too difficult to predict that the incompetent racist who has driven everything he's ever touched into the ground would be an incompetent racist president driving our country into the ground.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
It wasn't really too difficult to predict that the incompetent racist who has driven everything he's ever touched into the ground would be an incompetent racist president driving our country into the ground.
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Seems to me that they were hoping for Bush II Redux. A dimwit born with a silver spoon in his mouth who would do nothing but would be surrounded by competent people. Yes, Dick Cheney is evil, but he’s certainly competently evil.

What we got is much, much worse.
 
anitram said:
Seems to me that they were hoping for Bush II Redux. A dimwit born with a silver spoon in his mouth who would do nothing but would be surrounded by competent people. Yes, Dick Cheney is evil, but he’s certainly competently evil.



What we got is much, much worse.
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Yea I mean anyone who thought that wasn't really paying attention.

George W Bush, for his many faults, was never a mobbed up con man.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
Yea I mean anyone who thought that wasn't really paying attention.

George W Bush, for his many faults, was never a mobbed up con man.
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Up until now I would’ve disagreed and cited the innocent 500,000 dead people at the hands of GWB, but Trump is now starting to encroach that territory and if you were to diff the Covid deaths of competent vs incompetent leadership, another 4 years of Trump would almost certainly put the numbers of avoidable deaths at the same order of magnitude to some degree of certainty.

So, my new position is that the first four of Trump is as bad as GWB.

Also, Trump is destroying American society. Can’t forget that part.
 
The ONLY time I had even a sliver of hope is when he went to the WH to meet with Obama and get his first tour/briefing there and he looked like a deer in headlights who was about to shit himself. I knew then that he didn’t want the job itself (he wanted the title and the crowds and whatever tackiness he could get out of it) and I thought ok maybe he’ll pass it on to competent people who will push an agenda I fundamentally disagree with while he parades around as a sort of ceremonial figurehead and builds monuments to himself from sea to shining sea. However my hope was obviously 30 seconds long.
 
Since Kamala Harris was selected as VP, ActBlue has processed more than $11 million every single day.

In the preceding 41 days, it had only processed that much in a day twice.
 
One potential savior of our nerves on election night.

Florida.

Yeah, I know... BUT. FL has been doing mail in ballots forever. And they count them before Election Day. So FL reports fairly quickly, and is also on the East coast.

If Biden wins Florida, it’s a done deal. He would only need to win on other swing state. And if he wins FL, that likely means he will do very well elsewhere.

If he loses FL, well... we are in for some heartburn for days.
 
Rest in power Chadwick Boseman. I want to live in Wakanda, this country is done.



And if T’Challa’s speech to the United Nations isn’t a rallying cry for a new generation, I don’t know what is:

“Wakanda will no longer watch from the shadows. We cannot. We must not. We will work to be an example of how we as brothers and sisters on this earth should treat each other. Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than divides us. But in times of crisis, the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.”
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
Rest in power Chadwick Boseman. I want to live in Wakanda, this country is done.



And if T’Challa’s speech to the United Nations isn’t a rallying cry for a new generation, I don’t know what is:

“Wakanda will no longer watch from the shadows. We cannot. We must not. We will work to be an example of how we as brothers and sisters on this earth should treat each other. Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than divides us. But in times of crisis, the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.”
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Chadwick Boseman's final tweet:

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1299541239990308865
 
BEAL said:
https://twitter.com/alexdiprato/status/1299518815844347904?s=21

There is going to be so much violence over the next year. Imagine how angry these people will be if Trump loses ???
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I think it's important to remember that these "people" have always been here. These are the same racists that made up the Tea Party and masked their hate for a black president in the guise of fiscal policy and patriotism. They shouted and screamed at lawmakers that the ACA would destroy the country and send us spinning into socialism.

Once the ACA was around for a while, now a lot of those same people are yelling to keep it. The best part of liberal policies by and large, is that they work well and people realize it, even if they were afraid of the change. We just have to keep pushing. And we have to win.

Biden had a quote a couple weeks ago. He said something like. I always believed you could defeat hate. But hate just hides. It doesn’t go away, and when you have somebody in power who breathes oxygen into the hate under the rocks, it comes crawling out from under the rocks.

At this point, the only way people are for Trump are if they are racist or they are wealthy and want tax breaks, and possibly they are anti-choice fanatics. And often these overlap.
So lets send them back to their holes. Let them and their twisted minds rot.
 
That’s only partially true really. As we’ve seen in numerous articles, including some good reporting from the Times, there are plenty of people who are going to vote for Trump because he represents their conservative values better, even if they can’t stand him personally.

They’ll put up with him if it means solidifying a conservative Supreme Court for years to come.
 
The religious right is totally practical about their votes. They care about forcing pregnant women to give birth. It doesn’t matter if the guy who gets them there raw dogs porn stars, or watches his wife have sex with the pool boy. Or if one has pictures of the other and uses them to blackmail one into supporting him over Ted Cruz.

We need to be as mercenary as they are. They have no purity tests.
 
phanan said:
That’s only partially true really. As we’ve seen in numerous articles, including some good reporting from the Times, there are plenty of people who are going to vote for Trump because he represents their conservative values better, even if they can’t stand him personally.

They’ll put up with him if it means solidifying a conservative Supreme Court for years to come.
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But why do they want that? They think they are going to overturn Roe. What other values would Trump represent?

There are plenty of Republicans, I would say hundreds of thousands that have actual conservative values (Smaller government, less spending, free trade, lower taxes, etc... ) That know that Trump stands for none of these and are actively opposing him. There are definitely other Repubs with those values, but are also racist, so they are supporting Trump. They use the “values” excuse (that is nonsensical) to cover their true motive.

No actual non-racist conservative would support Donald Trump on policy. They are there because Trump speaks to their ingrained racism, and dream for a country filled with Suburban Housewives, serving up pot roast while the blacks stay quiet and be happy that racism doesn’t exist, and filthy immigrant animals get what’s coming to them.

In fact long time Republicans that are still in the administration have admitted that the party no longer has any beliefs. It’s only function is to “own the libs and piss off the media”.

I’m sure the NYTimes has printed nonsense to the contrary. They have a solid history of it these last couple years.
 
womanfish said:
But why do they want that? They think they are going to overturn Roe. What other values would Trump represent?



There are plenty of Republicans, I would say hundreds of thousands that have actual conservative values (Smaller government, less spending, free trade, lower taxes, etc... ) That know that Trump stands for none of these and are actively opposing him. There are definitely other Repubs with those values, but are also racist, so they are supporting Trump. They use the “values” excuse (that is nonsensical) to cover their true motive.



No actual non-racist conservative would support Donald Trump on policy. They are there because Trump speaks to their ingrained racism, and dream for a country filled with Suburban Housewives, serving up pot roast while the blacks stay quiet and be happy that racism doesn’t exist, and filthy immigrant animals get what’s coming to them.



In fact long time Republicans that are still in the administration have admitted that the party no longer has any beliefs. It’s only function is to “own the libs and piss off the media”.



I’m sure the NYTimes has printed nonsense to the contrary. They have a solid history of it these last couple years.
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Some are also there because people keep burning things down and looting.

Don’t underestimate the power of that.
 
Macho Man played at a Trump rally. Woosh right over their heads. Poor put upon white guy.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1299518815844347904

A man approached a 7News broadcast team and threatened to bomb them while at a rally for President Donald Trump in New Hampshire Friday night, all while the song “Macho Man” was playing in the background.

And all of that was caught on video.

Reporter Alex DiPrato posted the clip, which is nearly a minute and a half, on Twitter around 9:30 p.m. Friday. It’s quickly gathered roughly 1.4 million views.


“This man approached us the first time outside the Trump rally, left, then came back a second time while ‘Macho Man’ was playing. #machoman,” DiPrato wrote in the tweet accompanying the clip.

In it, a man in a white shirt and sunglasses can be seen walking up to the crew as DiPrato stands in front of the camera, though it doesn’t appear the crew was filming a segment at the time. The man initially asks about an incident involving U.S. Senator Rand Paul, likely referring to protesters surrounding him as he left the White House after the Republican National Convention early Friday morning.


DiPrato soon steps out of camera view after the man approaches him and stands close to him.

“You guys know what happened to Rand Paul last night?” the man said. “How would you like that to happen to you? We’re Americans, too. Our lives matter don’t we? Even though we’re white. Yeah, you can act like you’ve got someone to text but you’re really just a pussy"

The man then also steps in and out of the camera frame, and as filming continues of people in the background, the man questions how DiPrato “can sleep at night when you lie to people.”

After using explicit language, including to describe Democratic presidential nominee, former Vice President Joe Biden, the man then says, “you’ll pay.”

“Someone’s gonna bomb you,” he said. “Might even be tonight.”
 
Irvine511 said:
Some are also there because people keep burning things down and looting.

Don’t underestimate the power of that.
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But I'll counter that with this. People who have really stepped back and learned some things over the last few years, especially this year about racial justice and systemic racism, may see the rioting as counterproductive and stupidly giving Trump a social wedge issue to work with. But I also know that change doesn't happen without some true outrage.

I think Dr. King said - Rioting is the language of the unheard.

Let's just look at the past 4-5 months. Floyd is killed on camera by a policeman that knelt on his neck for 9 minutes. 2 of those minutes after he lay motionless. The largest demonstrations ever for racial justice followed. It began with rioting and looting, but protests, almost all peaceful, remained for 2 months, across the country and the world. What came in response? Peaceful protests attacked by police and nameless paramilitary with tear gas and rubber bullets. The streets "dominated" by Trump because well, That's what wannabe dictators do.

Meanwhile corporations tweeted inspiring words about supporting the cause and how we are supporting change and everyone posted BLM posts, and Black squares on IG, oh what a movement - change was in the air!!!!

And what happened...?

The Minneapolis police dept. completely restructured, and some weak ass bill that said, "try not to use choke holds if you can avoid it" passed or didn't, I don't even know it was such a weak response.

And that's it.

Even before Kenosha, the favorability of BLM went from 65 to 45. Even while no other protests were taking place. Why? White people moved on. Got tired of actually hearing black people talk about wanting to just "matter". It was a fun social media distraction for a month.

So then you see a man shot in the back from 1 foot away while the officer literally has a hold of his shirt. What are we to expect the reaction to be? Let's go out and hold signs again?

The people that are going to be swayed to Trump because of a couple days of rioting followed by peaceful protests, are ones that sadly have that ingrained racism within them that they haven't reckoned with. They still fear "the other". They fear black people actually responding with outrage over what keeps happening over and over. They may superficially support BLM, or think policing changes need to happen. But they just don't want any of that near their neck of the woods. Because it's much easier to ignore it and go to Costco.

All that said. Kenosha was incredibly horrible timing to happen during the RNC. But it will be out of people's consciousness within a couple weeks and Covid will still be there. Their lost job will still be there, their friend or family member dying will still be with them, their struggle to pay rent or bills will still be there.

My best guess is that Biden's 2 point bump in the polls post-DNC will probably be erased over the next couple weeks post-RNC. But then the question is what happens after that.

Bottom line. The people that go to Trump because of seeing rioting after a disgusting shooting of a black man, are still making their choice out of racist feelings.
 
womanfish said:
But I'll counter that with this. People who have really stepped back and learned some things over the last few years, especially this year about racial justice and systemic racism, may see the rioting as counterproductive and stupidly giving Trump a social wedge issue to work with. But I also know that change doesn't happen without some true outrage.



I think Dr. King said - Rioting is the language of the unheard.



Let's just look at the past 4-5 months. Floyd is killed on camera by a policeman that knelt on his neck for 9 minutes. 2 of those minutes after he lay motionless. The largest demonstrations ever for racial justice followed. It began with rioting and looting, but protests, almost all peaceful, remained for 2 months, across the country and the world. What came in response? Peaceful protests attacked by police and nameless paramilitary with tear gas and rubber bullets. The streets "dominated" by Trump because well, That's what wannabe dictators do.



Meanwhile corporations tweeted inspiring words about supporting the cause and how we are supporting change and everyone posted BLM posts, and Black squares on IG, oh what a movement - change was in the air!!!!



And what happened...?



The Minneapolis police dept. completely restructured, and some weak ass bill that said, "try not to use choke holds if you can avoid it" passed or didn't, I don't even know it was such a weak response.



And that's it.



Even before Kenosha, the favorability of BLM went from 65 to 45. Even while no other protests were taking place. Why? White people moved on. Got tired of actually hearing black people talk about wanting to just "matter". It was a fun social media distraction for a month.



So then you see a man shot in the back from 1 foot away while the officer literally has a hold of his shirt. What are we to expect the reaction to be? Let's go out and hold signs again?



The people that are going to be swayed to Trump because of a couple days of rioting followed by peaceful protests, are ones that sadly have that ingrained racism within them that they haven't reckoned with. They still fear "the other". They fear black people actually responding with outrage over what keeps happening over and over. They may superficially support BLM, or think policing changes need to happen. But they just don't want any of that near their neck of the woods. Because it's much easier to ignore it and go to Costco.



All that said. Kenosha was incredibly horrible timing to happen during the RNC. But it will be out of people's consciousness within a couple weeks and Covid will still be there. Their lost job will still be there, their friend or family member dying will still be with them, their struggle to pay rent or bills will still be there.



My best guess is that Biden's 2 point bump in the polls post-DNC will probably be erased over the next couple weeks post-RNC. But then the question is what happens after that.



Bottom line. The people that go to Trump because of seeing rioting after a disgusting shooting of a black man, are still making their choice out of racist feelings.
Click to expand...




I hope I’m wrong, but Kenosha feels different to me. It could be timing, or it could be because it’s in a swing state.

Again: hope I’m wrong.
 
Irvine511 said:
I hope I’m wrong, but Kenosha feels different to me. It could be timing, or it could be because it’s in a swing state.

Again: hope I’m wrong.
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I think you’re right that feels different. But why? Because he didn’t die? Just paralyzed and major organ damage?
I think it’s different because after such a huge push with George Floyd, people fighting for the cause are exhausted. Nothing changes with Trump and Republicans in the Senate.

And you are right again. Timing. This was in a way like the Comey letter/news conference with Clinton. It just hit at a time that gave Trump fuel to feed on.

I don’t know. My hope is that with Clinton that fuel kept burning because it was already flaming before. Here, Biden denounced violent protests back in May. His polls went up during demonstrations, even non-peaceful ones. His polls remained up through Portland. I think this will be a flare up, but will pass. I would bet by next Friday we are talking about something else.

The only problem I see is the media, yet again. They want a close race. A foregone conclusion doesn’t bring ratings.
So even though Kenosha will have died down, they will look at every poll that Trump has a slight bump in, and talk for days about how Trump succeeded in his Law and order message!!

I hope that Biden and Harris do some real work here. They need to push back now and push back hard.

They need to use Trump’s own catchphrase against him in ads. Show the police beating protestors, food lines, unemployment office lines, people dying in hospital beds and say, This is Trump’s America. Vote Biden for a better future.

Don’t despair. We on the left get freaked out about this stuff. But there is still far more going against Trump than for him. This too shall pass.
 
womanfish said:
They need to use Trump’s own catchphrase against him in ads. Show the police beating protestors, food lines, unemployment office lines, people dying in hospital beds and say, This is Trump’s America. Vote Biden for a better future.
Click to expand...

.
 
womanfish said:
But why do they want that? They think they are going to overturn Roe. What other values would Trump represent?



There are plenty of Republicans, I would say hundreds of thousands that have actual conservative values (Smaller government, less spending, free trade, lower taxes, etc... ) That know that Trump stands for none of these and are actively opposing him. There are definitely other Repubs with those values, but are also racist, so they are supporting Trump. They use the “values” excuse (that is nonsensical) to cover their true motive.



No actual non-racist conservative would support Donald Trump on policy. They are there because Trump speaks to their ingrained racism, and dream for a country filled with Suburban Housewives, serving up pot roast while the blacks stay quiet and be happy that racism doesn’t exist, and filthy immigrant animals get what’s coming to them.



In fact long time Republicans that are still in the administration have admitted that the party no longer has any beliefs. It’s only function is to “own the libs and piss off the media”.



I’m sure the NYTimes has printed nonsense to the contrary. They have a solid history of it these last couple years.
Click to expand...



I don’t disagree with most of your thoughts here, I think it applies a lot (although I’d argue the Times has been fairly strong of late). But there are plenty of folks out there voting strictly on their core conservative values and still believe Trump is the best option, even if he’s clearly not. Hell, I have “friends” on Facebook who are, and when you try to talk sense to them, they just don’t listen. I don’t believe it makes all of them racist though. Stupid, yes.

Maybe it is “ingrained” racism as you put it, that it’s there and they just don’t know, but there’s an entire swath of these people who I worry will be sticking with Trump this November. I hope I’m wrong...
 
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