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Old 11-04-2020, 12:52 AM   #141
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And that's the guy people still want to support.

Amazing.
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:52 AM   #142
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I mean, one of the stories thus far has been the idea that Biden didn't do well with Latinos in Florida because they thought he was too socialist/communist/whatever.

Biden. Too socialist/communist. So...

I think the big story here will be, again, heavy duty GOP voter suppression, and the fact that there's still a lot of really stupid people in this country who won't budge from Trump no matter who the Democrats put up.
Sanders was excellent with Latino voters on the whole, and Florida Cubans are a unique subset of voters.
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i was all for bernie in the primaries too but let's be real it's not likely that he would have done any better tonight.
If you don't think the last eight months of Sanders being able to extol the virtues of universal healthcare compared to the hellscape crafted by everyone to his right in this country that led to the pandemic fallout, you're out of your mind. The way he would have been able to draw normal non-voters out would have been unprecedented. It would have been an electoral slaughter.

Would Bernie have won in 2016? Yes, I'm confident in that. Would Bernie have won in 2020? I mean, he would have won by 8 figures. It would have been an insane victory. But we chose a guy who is wishy-washy on a fucking public option and who is worried about broken windows as the cops continue to murder black people in the streets.
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:53 AM   #143
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Also, Prop 22 won in California. Both parties are all-in on the gig economy since the Democrats abandoned labor, and this just set a precedent of employment without benefits. There is no future.

Speaking of wild state amendments: Florida narrowly passed $15 minimum wage.

Keep in mind that Florida requires 60% vote to pass.

So yeah. Talk about an inconsistency. But I’m happy.
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:53 AM   #144
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https://twitter.com/JaxAlemany/statu...698601472?s=19
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:53 AM   #145
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:53 AM   #146
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Floridians (80%) also voted to require citizenship to vote.

You know, that thing that was already the law.
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:53 AM   #147
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Yikes PA numbers don’t look pretty right now.
Those should be no mail in ballots, which I believe was something like 70-30 Dem.
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:53 AM   #148
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i was all for bernie in the primaries too but let's be real it's not likely that he would have done any better tonight. this was always going to be a referendum on trump no matter who was running against him.
But safe centrism didn't work in 2016. Too early to call this time around but you would have thought 233,000 COVID deaths and 9.5m cases and it's going to be close to a tie. Does that not suggest that perhaps safe centrism doesn't work?
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:55 AM   #149
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I'm glad we're giving a postmortem on the Biden campaign as he's taken Arizona and is about to take Georgia. Seems like a reasonable thing to do.
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:56 AM   #150
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Ooh, have they officially called Arizona, then?
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:56 AM   #151
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Speaking of wild state amendments: Florida narrowly passed $15 minimum wage.

Keep in mind that Florida requires 60% vote to pass.

So yeah. Talk about an inconsistency. But I’m happy.
Policies that are too leftist to pass are passing.

Candidates who "know better" than to support "radical" left policies are losing.
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:57 AM   #152
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Safe centrism doesn’t work but Bernie Sanders would have destroyed Trump in 2016 and would have suffered the same exact fate as whatever happens to Biden right now in 2020.

The exact same fate. Fuck any notion that Latinos changed the game here... this was a referendum on Trump, end of.
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:57 AM   #153
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If you don't think the last eight months of Sanders being able to extol the virtues of universal healthcare compared to the hellscape crafted by everyone to his right in this country that led to the pandemic fallout, you're out of your mind. The way he would have been able to draw normal non-voters out would have been unprecedented. It would have been an electoral slaughter.

Would Bernie have won in 2016? Yes, I'm confident in that. Would Bernie have won in 2020? I mean, he would have won by 8 figures. It would have been an insane victory. But we chose a guy who is wishy-washy on a fucking public option and who is worried about broken windows as the cops continue to murder black people in the streets.
i don't know how to respond to this. it's like reading a tweet from a trump supporter who was convinced yesterday that he would win 40 states.

i don't think there is anyone alive today in the democratic party or anywhere to the left of that who could have delivered tonight the kind of victory you're describing here, whatever their policies or their effectiveness in delivering the message.
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:58 AM   #154
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Policies that are too leftist to pass are passing.



Candidates who "know better" than to support "radical" left policies are losing.


I agree. Though supporting the right kind of candidate in the right kind of state is reasonable. Like, for example, Harrison in SC was the right candidate for sure.
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:58 AM   #155
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But safe centrism didn't work in 2016. Too early to call this time around but you would have thought 233,000 COVID deaths and 9.5m cases and it's going to be close to a tie. Does that not suggest that perhaps safe centrism doesn't work?
dude if you think i'm a fan of "safe centrism" you haven't been reading my posts for the last few years lol.
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:59 AM   #156
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I'm glad we're giving a postmortem on the Biden campaign as he's taken Arizona and is about to take Georgia. Seems like a reasonable thing to do.
Apologies for constructive criticism from a guy who literally said "Biden is still probably going to win"! Nothing weird about the little echo chamber the center/center-left in this forum has built for themselves over the last 15-20 years.
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Old 11-04-2020, 01:00 AM   #157
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i don't know how to respond to this. it's like reading a tweet from a trump supporter who was convinced yesterday that he would win 40 states.

i don't think there is anyone alive today in the democratic party or anywhere to the left of that who could have delivered tonight the kind of victory you're describing here.
We've never let someone legitimately deliver a leftist message on a national level without being accused of causing infighting for the last 50 years in this country. Everyone's minds are blown because there is no imagination left. It's just a slow drip of everything getting slightly worse every year.
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Old 11-04-2020, 01:00 AM   #158
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Apologies for constructive criticism from a guy who literally said "Biden is still probably going to win"! Nothing weird about the little echo chamber the center/center-left in this forum has built for themselves over the last 15-20 years.


My man. You are coming at this like you’re not welcome here because migraine in a briefcase is a loud voice.

Let’s be clear: he still thinks Cam Newton is a good QB and that the Patriots don’t suck.

You’re the voice for discourse. You’re not alone. There’s an echo chamber here but it’s a broad left wing, not the centrism you’re describing.
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Old 11-04-2020, 01:03 AM   #159
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seconded. you have friends in this bar, you don't need to come in swinging.
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Old 11-04-2020, 01:04 AM   #160
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Sanders was excellent with Latino voters on the whole, and Florida Cubans are a unique subset of voters.
Oh, I agree that he did well with them in general. I'm just saying that socialism, or perceived socialism, would've been an issue for some people.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Bernie, too, and I would've supported and been totally fine with him getting the nomination/being president. Just that given there are people who believe even centrist Democrats are socialist/communist/too far left/whatever for them, I imagine Bernie would've probably freaked them out, too. It sucks, no argument there, and speaks to a lot of bigger issues in this country in general across the board, but it is a factor for some.
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