US Politics XXIV: Your Country Sucks

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While Trump appears stupid in comparison to past presidents - and he certainly does not have the knowledge base needed to hold the office he has... guy's been a career white collar criminal who never got caught, and managed to convince millions of people that he was something he wasn't, enough so that he was elected to the highest office in the land.

So there's something going on up there (or was) - it's just being used for evil vs. good.
 
I think that his narcissistic personality, combined with his upbringing and wealth facilitated his business "savvy" if you want to call it that. It was basically a perfect storm and he could have died a wealthy con man with substantial assets passed down to his kids + his stupid name all over buildings if he had just stayed in his lane. But as soon as NBC put him on TV in prime time, he got greedy and the publicity and expanded fame (beyond NY/NJ/casinos, etc) fed into his elephantine ego. The culmination of this was his candidacy and presidential run which was never supposed to end where it did and so we're all here now.
 
Let’s remember to not get cocky. Take nothing for granted:




Dingell: I don’t trust polling. I don’t believe that Biden is 16 points up in Michigan; that’s a bullshit poll, and it’s the same people who said Hillary had it in the bag. I worry about polling suppressing votes. I don’t want anybody to think their vote doesn’t matter.

I’m seeing lots of Trump signs start to pop up. There are some very complicated issues that Trump is playing to divide this country. He is energizing his base, and we have to energize ours. If the election were held today, Joe Biden would win, but I don’t know what’s going to happen between now and November.

Godfrey: Voters back in 2015 and 2016 seemed to have a knee-jerk hatred or distrust of Hillary Clinton. Is it the same with Biden?

Dingell: No.

Godfrey: Why do you think that is?

Dingell: Because Joe connects with working people. A lot of people took [it] to heart when Hillary used the word deplorable. They felt that she looked down on ’em.

Godfrey: You told President Barack Obama back in 2015 that these people in your district were not feeling better off, even though—

Dingell: While the president saved the [auto] industry, those workers hadn’t had a pay raise. They weren’t feeling better off. You need to understand this industry: If you played by the rules—if you came to work and showed up, you worked hard—you’d get taken care of for a lifetime. Then [industry] bankruptcy came along, and suddenly, nothing’s secure, nothing’s safe, and you’re scared. That anxiety still lives in their hearts and their souls. Trump understood that; Hillary didn’t.

Godfrey: So if you were advising Joe Biden right now, what would you urge him to do to make sure he wins these voters?

Dingell: Find a way to reach out to working men and women, and show the side of him that I know. I begged [Biden’s former chief of staff] Steve Ricchetti to bring him into Michigan four years ago [on Clinton’s behalf]. Workers needed to see somebody who understood.


[...]


Godfrey: What could Trump do to change things up and win your district in November?

Dingell: I got yesterday, from somebody, something called a confession. [Editor’s note: It was a viral, anonymous social-media post.] I used to think I was pretty much just a regular person. But I was born white into a two-parent household, which now labels me as privileged, racist, and responsible for slavery. I’m a fiscal and moral conservative, which by today’s standards makes me a fascist because I plan a budget. But I now find out that I’m not here because I earned it, but because I was advantaged … I think and I reason, and I doubt much of what the mainstream media tells me, which makes me a right-wing conspiracy nut. I’m proud of my heritage and our inclusive American culture. It makes me a xenophobe.

That’s what I’m worried about. This letter right here is what worries me.

Godfrey: What do you mean?

Dingell: Donald Trump is trying to divide us with fear and hatred. And he’s using [these] wedge issues. I went to a neighborhood the other day and counted 100 Blue Lives Matter signs.


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/debbie-dingell-doesnt-believe-polls/614428/
Click to expand...
 
anitram said:
I think that his narcissistic personality, combined with his upbringing and wealth facilitated his business "savvy" if you want to call it that. It was basically a perfect storm and he could have died a wealthy con man with substantial assets passed down to his kids + his stupid name all over buildings if he had just stayed in his lane. But as soon as NBC put him on TV in prime time, he got greedy and the publicity and expanded fame (beyond NY/NJ/casinos, etc) fed into his elephantine ego. The culmination of this was his candidacy and presidential run which was never supposed to end where it did and so we're all here now.
Click to expand...

He was a nationally known celebrity long before The Apprentice.

I'm not saying this guy's a Mensa candidate. I'm not even saying he's got good business accumen, as he doesn't (not did he ever).

He's one hell of a confidence man, though; and one of the greatest white collar criminals our country has ever seen.

He's bigger than US Steel, if you will.
 
Vlad n U 2 said:
A leftist criticising the right-of-centre Democratic presidential candidate without mentioning Trump in the same post? That's horseshoe theory babey
Click to expand...

“Right of centre” ?
Not sure where you get that idea. Biden would be the farthest left of any President to take office.

I think progressives would be far better off highlighting and supporting Biden’s moves to the left on education, environment, criminal justice, child care, police reform, jobs plan and healthcare than jumping on his every perceived misstep. Or to continue to call him right of center or even a moderate at this point.
 
A world where people think Joe Biden is "right of center" only proves that we have and will continue to push to the left each and every year - and will continue to do so as long as we're not dumb about it.

Prior to Trump being elected all the talk was of how the GOP was dead. It wasn't wrong. They're scratching and clawing for survival, and they pulled a feather out of their ass in 2016 - but, again, as long as we're not dumb about it? Society is moving to the left.
 
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Hewson said:
tru.jpg
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LOL. Not sure how i managed that. sigh
 
joe biden is right of centre on every political spectrum that isn't "mainstream american politicians" only.

he only seems left because most of your politicians are even further right than he is. american politics as a whole is profoundly conservative.

there's a reason the entire mainstream establishment panicked en masse and started colluding the instant it looked like the guy who was promoting insane ideas like healthcare for everyone and sensible gun control might have a shot at winning something.

also, FDR says hello to the idea of biden being "the farthest left of any President to take office".
 
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Headache in a Suitcase said:
He was a nationally known celebrity long before The Apprentice.

I'm not saying this guy's a Mensa candidate. I'm not even saying he's got good business accumen, as he doesn't (not did he ever).

He's one hell of a confidence man, though; and one of the greatest white collar criminals our country has ever seen.

He's bigger than US Steel, if you will.
Click to expand...

Yeah, for sure the confidence + narcissistic aspects of his personality allowed him to exceed beyond what might be expected.

I still think that his fame skyrocketed with the Apprentice. Yes, he may have been nationally known but in a more abstract way for his tacky ways and many wives. The Apprentice literally put him in people's homes on a weekly basis and normalized him in a way that set the stage for the hell we are in.
 
DaveC said:
joe biden is right of centre on every political spectrum that isn't "mainstream american politicians" only.

he only seems left because most of your politicians are even further right than he is. american politics as a whole is profoundly conservative.

there's a reason the entire mainstream establishment panicked en masse and started colluding the instant it looked like the guy who was promoting insane ideas like healthcare for everyone and sensible gun control might have a shot at winning something.

also, FDR says hello to the idea of biden being "the farthest left of any President to take office".
Click to expand...



Joe Biden reminds me of David Cameron with pitchfork to his neck.

He might be classically center right, but in fairness he is tiptoeing left if only because he doesn’t wanna be on the right right now.
 
DaveC said:
joe biden is right of centre on every political spectrum that isn't "mainstream american politicians" only.

he only seems left because most of your politicians are even further right than he is. american politics as a whole is profoundly conservative.

there's a reason the entire mainstream establishment panicked en masse and started colluding the instant it looked like the guy who was promoting insane ideas like healthcare for everyone and sensible gun control might have a shot at winning something.

also, FDR says hello to the idea of biden being "the farthest left of any President to take office".
Click to expand...

LOL. I pulled a Biden! What I meant to say was, he would be the farthest left of any modern president to take office. :D

But Biden did just roll out the largest jobs program in almost a hundred years, led by green initiatives, which I think would make FDR proud.

My point is that Biden is most certainly left of center in current American politics, and if we win the senate, i think he could tack farther left once in office. Which I think most here would agree is a good thing.
 
womanfish said:
But Biden did just roll out the largest jobs program in almost a hundred years, led by green initiatives, which I think would make FDR proud.
Click to expand...

and trump is going to build a big beautiful concrete wall 40 feet high along the entire border that mexico will pay for, which i think would make reagan proud.

campaign promises aren't accomplishments.
 
DaveC said:
and trump is going to build a big beautiful concrete wall 40 feet high along the entire border that mexico will pay for, which i think would make reagan proud.

campaign promises aren't accomplishments.
Click to expand...

Weren't you a Sanders supporter?
 
anitram said:
Yeah, for sure the confidence + narcissistic aspects of his personality allowed him to exceed beyond what might be expected.



I still think that his fame skyrocketed with the Apprentice. Yes, he may have been nationally known but in a more abstract way for his tacky ways and many wives. The Apprentice literally put him in people's homes on a weekly basis and normalized him in a way that set the stage for the hell we are in.
Click to expand...
Oh I don't deny that The Apprentice elevated his standing as this supposed business genius - and only goes to show how just generally stupid we are as a country that so many people saw a conman playing a role on a scripted TV show and thought it was real life.

He's been laundering money and doing the mob's work since the 80s. It's an open secret. Everybody knew - but for whatever reason that never became the focal point of the 2016 campaign because... I dunno, I guess everyone just assumed we were smarter than we were and he'd never win.
 
Yowza

At this point in 2016, party registration of NC's requested absentee by mail ballots was:

38% registered Democrat
37% reg Republican
25% reg Unaffiliated

Today (7-24):

54% reg Democrat
35% reg Unaffiliated
11% reg Republican
 
womanfish said:
“Right of centre” ?
Not sure where you get that idea. Biden would be the farthest left of any President to take office.

I think progressives would be far better off highlighting and supporting Biden’s moves to the left on education, environment, criminal justice, child care, police reform, jobs plan and healthcare than jumping on his every perceived misstep. Or to continue to call him right of center or even a moderate at this point.
Click to expand...



but how will i retain my sense of moral superiority if I can't dunk on a 77-year old man with a long history of verbal gaffs?





actually, i'd argue that Biden's relatively unsophisticated, 1970s white working class progressive views on racism is one of his electoral superpowers. it's way easier to understand.
 
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womanfish said:
Weren't you a Sanders supporter?
Click to expand...

i would have preferred that sanders be the nominee in the sense that he was the only candidate with a chance who was proferring ideas that come even a little bit close to my own politics. if there had been a serious candidate further to the left of sanders i likely would have supported that person instead.

and i'm well aware that he would have had to make concessions to the center if he had become the nominee, i know a lot of what he was promising wouldn't be feasible right away - but having a president who publicly supported things like universal health care would have shifted the overton window to the left much more than having a president who supports expanding medicare (or whatever his stance is, too lazy to look it up right now) will. having a president trump has mainstreamed far-right ideas like building border walls and banning muslims and secret federal riot police - why wouldn't that work in the opposite direction?

my point with my last post is that we shouldn't consider campaign promises as solid evidence of where someone lies on the political spectrum. politicians will say and promise anything to get elected. it's cool that biden is releasing progressive policy promises but that doesn't mean biden is a progressive if he doesn't do a damn thing to enact those policies once he's elected.

i sincerely hope that the progressive wing of the party holds his feet to the fire and makes him follow through. but i'm skeptical that he'll actually have the will and political capital to be able to accomplish any of these things without them being watered-down compromises that cater to corporate america in the name of "bipartisanship".

i want really badly to be dead-ass wrong about biden and that he truly does become the most left-progressive president of modern times. his repeated statements about how the GOP is going to suddenly see the light, come to jesus and want to start working with D's again as soon as trump is gone gives me very little hope about that though.
 
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DaveC said:
i would have preferred that sanders be the nominee in the sense that he was the only candidate with a chance who was proferring ideas that come even a little bit close to my own politics. if there had been a serious candidate further to the left of sanders i likely would have supported that person instead.

and i'm well aware that he would have had to make concessions to the center if he had become the nominee, i know a lot of what he was promising wouldn't be feasible right away - but having a president who publicly supported things like universal health care would have shifted the overton window to the left much more than having a president who supports expanding medicare (or whatever his stance is, too lazy to look it up right now) will. having a president trump has mainstreamed far-right ideas like building border walls and banning muslims and secret federal riot police - why wouldn't that work in the opposite direction?

my point with my last post is that we shouldn't consider campaign promises as solid evidence of where someone lies on the political spectrum. politicians will say and promise anything to get elected. it's cool that biden is releasing progressive policy promises but that doesn't mean biden is a progressive if he doesn't do a damn thing to enact those policies once he's elected.

i sincerely hope that the progressive wing of the party holds his feet to the fire and makes him follow through. but i'm skeptical that he'll actually have the will and political capital to be able to accomplish any of these things without them being watered-down compromises that cater to corporate america in the name of "bipartisanship".

i want really badly to be dead-ass wrong about biden and that he truly does become the most left-progressive president of modern times. his repeated statements about how the GOP is going to suddenly see the light, come to jesus and want to start working with D's again as soon as trump is gone gives me very little hope about that though.
Click to expand...

Agreed on most here. I'm glad that Biden is using his current large lead to open the door to more progressive policies. Knowing that a lot of that lead comes from middle of the spectrum voters, I was thinking it was very possible he would go even more moderate to appease them.
But this election isn't about policy. So that helps a lot.

I admire Sanders for his lifelong work to bring more progressive issues into the mainstream. He's doing it in spades right now, and it's somewhat unnoticed because of all the fresh hell that's going on each day. But he and somewhat Warren have moved Biden considerably.

My hope is that we get the Senate and Biden pushes as much left leaning stuff as he can through the pipeline in the first two years. I too have my doubts on how it will pan out. But fingers are crossed.
 
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