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Old 07-10-2020, 11:52 AM   #221
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I’m sorry your candidate is bad at winning elections.
This really wasn't necessary.
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Old 07-10-2020, 12:26 PM   #222
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I didn't say that, but you only know how to interpret everything I say in whatever light alllows you to smugly sneer at me. I think you respond to me in a manner that isn't dripping with pure contempt and condescension once every six months or so? Enough time that I'd have to do some real digging to find a reply to me that wasn't in incredibly bad faith. The gist is always that all my motivations are selfish, petty grievances and your motivations are the compassionate and rational ones.

I do remember a time that I really respected you.


i'm sorry you feel this way, i genuinely am, but my feelings started to change when you called me a bad person for even considering voting for Joe Biden. it was probably last spring. and there's a constant moral crusading and the viewpoint that those only slightly different from you (liberals) are worse than those who are actively trying to harm people. you present yourself as the only one who sees anything clearly, and disagreements are due to moral failings -- I could definitely lay off on the sarcasm, that is true, but you're more than capable of your own sneering and derision, of the most unfair and disingenuous framings, as well as a false apologies all around during the week when it looked like Sanders might win. to me, that all speaks of bad faith. i'm not some bully beating up on a weaker kid. you are more than equipped to push back. and you do not hesitate to call people who disagree with you morally inferior. i've tried, consistently, to point out our similarities, and your pushback is/was considerable -- how dare i even make the comparison.

but i will admit to probably unfairly making you an avatar of one of the reasons we lost in 2016 -- pushing the idea that Hillary was just as bad as Trump. you do this, consistently, and it's reflected in your stated choice to not vote for Biden when you literally live in a swing state that was decided by fewer people than saw U2 in 2017 in Philadelphia. those are real stakes, and your vote has real weight, and to choose to use it in a way that won't help a population that is being killed by this administration does seem to me to be the heigh of selfishness and pettiness.

and you're far from the only person i know like this. i have family members who hold the exact same views -- Bernie, or i'm voting for Jill Stein. you just happen to be the person in this place where i come to vent so i don't have to in other areas of my life.

i realize i shouldn't personalize this. and i have. but i'm trying to explain myself honestly, because i feel like i should, whether or not this makes me look like an asshole.

i'm exhausted. i'm exhausted by this administration. people are literally dying. institutions are hanging on by a thread. we are looking at a state of not just decline but freefall if he wins in November. looking into the abyss is terrifying, and from what i can tell, the attitudes expressed by you in here are making that freefall even more likely.

so there it is. if you would prefer, i will do my best not to respond to you in the future.

let me know.
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Old 07-10-2020, 12:28 PM   #223
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This really wasn't necessary.

well so is my candidate, Elizabeth Warren. i was stunned, but she proved to somehow be a really bad candidate when it came to people actually voting for her. Bernie did this twice and it didn't take. we can look to the candidates and their personal failings and what went wrong, or we can cry dolchstass! and blame the system or the DNC or Debbie Wasserman-Schultz never get anywhere or learn anything.
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Old 07-10-2020, 12:51 PM   #224
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I don't think that Warren was a bad campaigner and I think if the primaries were held 4-5 months earlier, she would have likely won or come close.

Her problem is the totally mismanaged way of addressing her healthcare plan. A lot of it is the media's fault for insisting that she says she'll increase taxes because that's what they wanted to hear (nevermind that the funds would be more than offset by no more premiums or out of pocket expenses - I guess the public is too stupid to do math). She never got her groove back, she seemed like she was backpedaling on her universal healthcare commitment and that was basically that.

Let's not forget that this and Howard Dean's scream can lose you an election while being a racist, misogynist, dementia-ridden, know-nothing dangerous ignoramus is totally desirable for about 40% of the voters.
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Old 07-10-2020, 01:29 PM   #225
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We have to try but the hole being dug by Trump and his criminal buddies is going to be too deep ever recover from.

Wait until school year kicks in and kids, teachers, and then parents get sick in larger hordes. How’s the economy ever going to recover if people are too sick or too scared to leave the house ?

Trump is letting it wash over us with the Hail Mary of a vaccine that scientists say probably be 40-50% effective (better than 0) or the mythical herd immunity which for a country this big and diverse could never work. Especially if there is no long term immunity

We have six more months of this.
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Old 07-10-2020, 01:52 PM   #226
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Let's not forget that this and Howard Dean's scream can lose you an election while being a racist, misogynist, dementia-ridden, know-nothing dangerous ignoramus is totally desirable for about 40% of the voters.
Its amazing how quickly a candidate can go from the penthouse to the outhouse with just one bad photo op or statement etc.
Howard Dean's "Yeeeah"
Dukakis' tank photo,
Al Gore sweating like a sumo wrestler in a sauna at the first debate vs GWB.
Warren's NYE beer. (I think that hurt her as much as her healthcare explanation issues)

Yet the orange one is on tape saying he grabs women by the ***** and gets elected.
Democrats/liberals hold their candidates to much too high a personal standard most of the time compared to their right wing counterparts.
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Old 07-10-2020, 02:57 PM   #227
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So it looks like the $600 extended unemployment is not going to get passed by Republicans.

Read BEAL's post above about Covid and schools, and people trying to work or choose between their families health, and then add to that millions of people no longer getting stimulus unemployment. We will be looking at not just retail and restaurant workers not able to pay rent, but plenty of people in the suburbs and rural areas that won't be able to make mortgages.

This should be a layup for Trump. Pump the money in and it keeps the economy ticking along. at least steady. But now. We could be adding another crisis on top of racial justice, and a pandemic. He truly is a sick, sick motherfucker.
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Old 07-10-2020, 04:01 PM   #228
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They did pump the money but they gave it to the rich again.

I think there’s 11 days left before the temporary hold on evictions expire. That falls through and you have hundred of thousands kicked out of their homes. Maybe more.

I’m optimistic that gets done but at last minute and Turtleman will hold something hostage.

The most important race / aspect of 2020
Election is the Senate.

Win that and hold the house and Trump can be held accountable
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Old 07-10-2020, 06:35 PM   #229
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Speaking of McTurtle. This is... uh. wow

https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/statu...88979411271686
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Old 07-10-2020, 06:43 PM   #230
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The primary was decided before I had an opportunity to do so. Things don't change because they're designed not to.
C'mon, don't bring Bernie back into this. You and I know both know there's more at stake on a general election ballot than which of two senile old white men gets to be the face of the nation.

If we've learned absolutely nothing else from the pandemic, I hope it's that the federal government can abandon us at a moment's notice if they feel it's in their best interests and that we should be focusing our attention on local government for our own survival.
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Old 07-10-2020, 06:56 PM   #231
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Speaking of McTurtle. This is... uh. wow



https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/statu...88979411271686


What the...
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Old 07-10-2020, 08:07 PM   #232
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https://twitter.com/woodruffbets/sta...150125056?s=21

Your Friday night news dump....

roger stone has been commuted

Another obsolete joke of our justice system. Or what used to be.

This action goes against the judge, his own DOJ, and federal appeals court
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Old 07-10-2020, 08:18 PM   #233
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C'mon, don't bring Bernie back into this. You and I know both know there's more at stake on a general election ballot than which of two senile old white men gets to be the face of the nation.

If we've learned absolutely nothing else from the pandemic, I hope it's that the federal government can abandon us at a moment's notice if they feel it's in their best interests and that we should be focusing our attention on local government for our own survival.


I’m not an American and I’m thus not allowed to vote, but as an outsider living here I hope if anything the pandemic showed that the federal government actually matters a great deal, and the attempt to destroy it in the name of small government/federalism over the last half century was disastrous except for the rich donors who got their deregulation and tax cuts.
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Old 07-10-2020, 09:45 PM   #234
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I’m not an American and I’m thus not allowed to vote, but as an outsider living here I hope if anything the pandemic showed that the federal government actually matters a great deal, and the attempt to destroy it in the name of small government/federalism over the last half century was disastrous except for the rich donors who got their deregulation and tax cuts.
We need to take congressional voting very, very seriously, of course. Millions are about to lose the bare minimum keeping them going as the CARES ACT expires because of who presently controls the senate. I stressed the importance of down ballot voting in my post. My point is that we need to safeguard our own interests by remaining engaged at the local level.

There is a fairly decent chance that Republicans retain the Senate and we're back to square one with a different administration. That can't be allowed to happen and no amount of pessimistic fatalism justifies inaction.
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Old 07-11-2020, 08:08 AM   #235
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Here's is my shocked face...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/media...eff/index.html
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Old 07-11-2020, 08:25 AM   #236
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Now we know what STING is up to when he's not making new Interference accounts.
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Old 07-11-2020, 06:31 PM   #237
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I’m not an American and I’m thus not allowed to vote, but as an outsider living here I hope if anything the pandemic showed that the federal government actually matters a great deal, and the attempt to destroy it in the name of small government/federalism over the last half century was disastrous except for the rich donors who got their deregulation and tax cuts.
The Federal Govt seriously matters!

Reagan and his 'government is the problem ' BS really got things going, then Neeewt, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonMelon View Post
We need to take congressional voting very, very seriously, of course. Millions are about to lose the bare minimum keeping them going as the CARES ACT expires because of who presently controls the senate. I stressed the importance of down ballot voting in my post. My point is that we need to safeguard our own interests by remaining engaged at the local level.

There is a fairly decent chance that Republicans retain the Senate and we're back to square one with a different administration. . That can't be allowed to happen and no amount of pessimistic fatalism justifies inaction.
THIS!

Up ballot! Down ballot! All of the ballot.
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Old 07-11-2020, 08:29 PM   #238
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Today marks the point where Trump pretends that he was favor of masks the entire time and the idea that he wasn't was merely a liberal hoax
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Old 07-11-2020, 09:04 PM   #239
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Today marks the point where Trump pretends that he was favor of masks the entire time and the idea that he wasn't was merely a liberal hoax
He just said, "I think it's a good thing to wear a mask. I've never been against masks"

How do you think his cult will react? Do they start wearing them? do they start harassing people who don't? Does it ever dawn on them, that they are sick demented individuals?
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Old 07-11-2020, 09:06 PM   #240
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Just wanted to say, that while I may not agree with much that Jerry Dunk posts. I do appreciate his activity on the forum. There have been times we do agree, and if I don't, it always makes me pause and think about things from a different perspective which is good.
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