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Old 06-19-2020, 12:45 PM   #661
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Old 06-19-2020, 01:28 PM   #662
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This pollster is not rated on 538, but it has a sample of 10,600 voters from May 28th to June 10th.
Biden +11

Time for Biden to step up his appearances and start to hit Trump on Bolton/China/Concentration Camps/general stupidity/threatening protesters in Tulsa... etc... He has the cushion now to attack more.

Also, Trump did it again. Executive order on Police Reform. Two days later, Protesters will not be treated as nicely as they were in NY, MN, and Seattle. Always undercuts everything that he is forced to do by people around him.
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Old 06-19-2020, 01:41 PM   #663
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This Tulsa rally could be a complete disaster. 20,000 people packed indoors, going to restaurants, bars, hotels....then back to their communities.

The world will be watching as this will be the first mass gathering of people since this started.


It’s basically literally Jonestown.
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Old 06-19-2020, 03:02 PM   #664
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Following Tulsa up with a rally in Phoenix on Tuesday. Maricopa County's numbers are great, too!

Even the most responsible states, like my own, are opening up too early. Pennsylvania is moving all counties to "green" by next Friday, which will allow gatherings of up to 250 and restaurants to operate at 75 percent capacity. It's extremely fucking stupid.

The GOP put forth a motion to impeach Pennsylvania governor Tom Wolf this week, by the way. For being too restrictive in shutting things down.
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Old 06-19-2020, 03:14 PM   #665
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Even the most responsible states, like my own, are opening up too early. Pennsylvania is moving all counties to "green" by next Friday, which will allow gatherings of up to 250 and restaurants to operate at 75 percent capacity. It's extremely fucking stupid.
There has to be a balance struck however to re-open and allow folks to earn a living. If proper social distancing rules are followed, there's no reason restaurants and other businesses can't re-open and get back to some reasonable level of business.
Can't keep the economy shut down at April levels, its just not feasible.
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Old 06-19-2020, 03:27 PM   #666
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US Politics XXIII: Law & Order SOU (Stupid Orange Unit)

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Originally Posted by Hewson View Post
There has to be a balance struck however to re-open and allow folks to earn a living. If proper social distancing rules are followed, there's no reason restaurants and other businesses can't re-open and get back to some reasonable level of business.

Can't keep the economy shut down at April levels, its just not feasible.


Entirely disagree. Do you not realize the global impact is has on the United States if we don’t get our shit together?

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We will be left behind when the world starts to get along. If you think biting the bullet is just not feasible because of the economy, just wait and see what happens to our economy if we are either left behind or forced to drag the global economy down with us.
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Old 06-19-2020, 03:39 PM   #667
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I'm hoping we stay where we currently are in Illinois. It's been two straight weeks with new cases under 1% daily. People can go to the park, get carry out, and have small gatherings for some semblance of normalcy. Opening any further than this while a lot of states are seeing repercussions for doing so would be foolish. Bars especially should stay closed.
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Old 06-19-2020, 03:47 PM   #668
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There has to be a balance struck however to re-open and allow folks to earn a living. If proper social distancing rules are followed, there's no reason restaurants and other businesses can't re-open and get back to some reasonable level of business.
Can't keep the economy shut down at April levels, its just not feasible.
You cannot properly social distance in a restaurant or bar. Eating and drinking requires you to take your mask off. Being indoors, with your mask off, in close contact to other people for extended periods of time is the entire recipe for spreading this disease. And not to mention that most bars and restaurants exist in spaces that make it impossible to spread patrons out properly. Even the outdoor dining options are usually just cramming people into small slivers of sidewalk where they're so close together that they might as well be inside. Bars and restaurants are probably the things that need to be closed the longest.

You are correct that it's not feasible with the economy as currently constructed. The whole problem we are facing is that we didn't take it seriously and don't intend to, while we also have an economy heavily based around people needing to have constant in-person contact, and we have no social safety net.

Either something's gotta give or an unconscionable number of people are going to get sick and/or die unnecessarily. It seems pretty clear right now that our country intends to sacrifice a whole lot of people in ways that could have been avoided.
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Old 06-19-2020, 03:54 PM   #669
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https://twitter.com/acosta/status/12...042198017?s=21

Do these people really believe it’s a hoax ? Do they have some treatment that rest of us aren’t privy too?

To Jerry’s point above

Trump won out over the scientists. He wanted to let this virus wash over the country and that’s what will happen.

We will ride this wave until school starts and things will get bad again. Who knows what cold / flu season will bring.
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Old 06-19-2020, 03:55 PM   #670
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I think Biden and others are focusing too much on just the amount of people that died because of Trump doing nothing at the beginning of the virus.

30,000 dead because of one week delay, 65,000 because of two week delay. It's great to point this out. But now, jump on the deaths he caused by pushing for a reopening.

Now we see the shit that's happening because of opening too early.

Look at New York. They "opened back up" about two weeks later than most other states. They have dropped their cases by dramatic amounts. Just two weeks of doing the same stuff we were doing for over two months. But no. Trump had to push and push and threaten states until they opened early. FL is looking like the next NY at this point.
And then hold on, as 19,000 people all disperse from Tulsa back to wherever the fuck they came from.
Iron Yuppie i think is right. You can have partial opening, and things would die down. But here in TN. Shit, it's wide open now. Roads are packed, mask wearing has dropped by at least 50% I would say in my observation.
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Old 06-19-2020, 03:57 PM   #671
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Here is one of several ads running in MI, WI, PA, FL, NC, OH, and AZ over the next few weeks of a 15 million dollar ad buy from Biden.

https://twitter.com/Adrienne_DNC/sta...97296104017920
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Old 06-19-2020, 04:01 PM   #672
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Here's another one.



Also running Spanish language ads, print and radio on African American media, for about 5 weeks.

I guess this is the true beginning of the 2020 election. Here we go.
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Old 06-19-2020, 04:28 PM   #673
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I think Biden and others are focusing too much on just the amount of people that died because of Trump doing nothing at the beginning of the virus.



30,000 dead because of one week delay, 65,000 because of two week delay. It's great to point this out. But now, jump on the deaths he caused by pushing for a reopening.



Now we see the shit that's happening because of opening too early.



Look at New York. They "opened back up" about two weeks later than most other states. They have dropped their cases by dramatic amounts. Just two weeks of doing the same stuff we were doing for over two months. But no. Trump had to push and push and threaten states until they opened early. FL is looking like the next NY at this point.

And then hold on, as 19,000 people all disperse from Tulsa back to wherever the fuck they came from.

Iron Yuppie i think is right. You can have partial opening, and things would die down. But here in TN. Shit, it's wide open now. Roads are packed, mask wearing has dropped by at least 50% I would say in my observation.


Other countries were able to reopen with restrictions. And they saw spikes but had a more unified response.

We are all over the map and throw in the old American exceptionalism and we’ve got a slow moving disaster.

The shutdown was the right move. What was fucked was our federal government doing nothing for those two months but have Trump talk about injecting bleach.

The CDC plan that was put out Opening America, Again wasn’t that bad once details were plugged in.

Communities need to see their numbers trend down for two weeks before moving into the next phase.

Other than the northeast, very few states are seeing that. I think fatigue and fear set in for governments. Keeping people locked down was going to spill over into violence at some point.

The scary thing i think is we aren’t going to see some magical recovery.

In the next 8 weeks millions of people could be evicted.

Businesses like bars, restaurants can’t survive on 50-75% capacity. Yet if they push the boundaries they’ll close due to workers getting sick or lack of business from new outbreaks (example, Apple is closing their stores in the Southern states with rising numbers)

If there are no college sports, that’s a huge revenue loss for colleges. How many schools are in good standing to weather that storm ?

There is no easy answer to any of this but we could have been prepared. A country like Germany actually relied on US scientist recommendations for their re opening.

We let our greed take over
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Old 06-19-2020, 04:39 PM   #674
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NYC has had 5 days of phase one.

Phase two has been planned for Monday. I don't know the very latest. I know Cuomo threatened to pull liquor lisences from bars and restaurants who didn't enforce distancing and masks.
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Old 06-19-2020, 05:41 PM   #675
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https://twitter.com/i/status/1273997296104017920
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Old 06-19-2020, 05:47 PM   #676
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How something so small, can say it all...

https://twitter.com/TheTomGeorge/sta...91591980904448
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Old 06-19-2020, 05:49 PM   #677
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Other countries were able to reopen with restrictions. And they saw spikes but had a more unified response.
Other countries had a proper lockdown. Other than parts of the Northeast and some parts of the Midwest and California, the rest of the US never properly locked down to make the initial push.

LN7 is right - this will be a massive drag on the economy, both in the US and globally.
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Old 06-19-2020, 06:24 PM   #678
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And you just know those who are refusing to wear masks and whining about restrictions and demanding we open everything up now will be the exact same ones bitching if we get a second wave later this year and everything has to shut down for even longer.

I truly don't get how people can be this stupid and selfish.
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Old 06-19-2020, 06:25 PM   #679
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You cannot properly social distance in a restaurant or bar. Eating and drinking requires you to take your mask off. Being indoors, with your mask off, in close contact to other people for extended periods of time is the entire recipe for spreading this disease. And not to mention that most bars and restaurants exist in spaces that make it impossible to spread patrons out properly. Even the outdoor dining options are usually just cramming people into small slivers of sidewalk where they're so close together that they might as well be inside. Bars and restaurants are probably the things that need to be closed the longest.
Bars I agree, restaurants, not necessarily. Obviously small hole in the wall places are an issue, but if proper rules are enacted (and followed) restaurants with large enough footprints can work.
Here in MA the restaurant re-opening has nothing to do with a percentage of capacity. All tables have to be spaced at least 6 feet apart (which will naturally reduce capacity), masks worn until seated, and worn if going to restroom etc. Staff masked at all times. Paper/disposable menus (or QR codes placed on tables to pull up menu on phone). No seating at bars, even to dine. All tables sanitized and allowed to naturally dry/evaporate. No place settings or condiments on tables, silverware etc. brought with your meal. Time limts on seating once your meal is served. Outdoor seating began on 6/8. Indoor seating has just been announced to start Monday. So far evidence is that it is working. Indoor seating of course will be a bigger test as you lose the open air factor, but if all the protocols are properly followed, risk should be fairly low.
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Old 06-19-2020, 07:44 PM   #680
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Bars I agree, restaurants, not necessarily. Obviously small hole in the wall places are an issue, but if proper rules are enacted (and followed) restaurants with large enough footprints can work.
Here in MA the restaurant re-opening has nothing to do with a percentage of capacity. All tables have to be spaced at least 6 feet apart (which will naturally reduce capacity), masks worn until seated, and worn if going to restroom etc. Staff masked at all times. Paper/disposable menus (or QR codes placed on tables to pull up menu on phone). No seating at bars, even to dine. All tables sanitized and allowed to naturally dry/evaporate. No place settings or condiments on tables, silverware etc. brought with your meal. Time limts on seating once your meal is served. Outdoor seating began on 6/8. Indoor seating has just been announced to start Monday. So far evidence is that it is working. Indoor seating of course will be a bigger test as you lose the open air factor, but if all the protocols are properly followed, risk should be fairly low.


6 ft is a made up number with minimal scientific backing and I would venture to say your length of sharing the same air as someone else is far more important than the distance, unless it’s literally right in your face like at a concert or jammed bar.

What’s annoying as fuck about this is if it was just done right the first time, our first full lockdown would’ve actually produced results where you could be having this conversation about dining etc.
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