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Old 06-09-2020, 10:21 AM   #361
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But...Joe Biden doesn't have to agree with any of this. It's very good information for him to have, who supports what solution and what he can do to bring in voters, but it's not his responsibility to be a community leader. We already have men and women in the streets on behalf of the cause. Biden is a politician and needs to understand what is best for him to say so he can get Trump out of office.

you've said better what i was trying to say. there is absolutely space for protests that go far to the left (or right) of the center in order to pull the center closer to them. i just get very, very nervous right now because Trump is such an extinction-level event that i get increasingly risk averse. he. must. go.

my additional points are, 1) "Kamal is a cop" is mean-spirited and unfair, and 2) BLM does not disqualify her as a VP.

i don't have a first choice for VP, but i would be fine with Harris.

of course, if Trump is going to continue to claim that 75-year old men with bleeding head wounds are Antifa, maybe we don't have that much to worry about.
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Old 06-09-2020, 10:41 AM   #362
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i just get very, very nervous right now because Trump is such an extinction-level event that i get increasingly risk averse. he. must. go.
This, and ensuring his enablers in the Senate are sent packing as well, remains the most critical issue of the day.

NONE of the issues that are being debated by different sides of the left of center will be addressed if the cancer is not removed.
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Old 06-09-2020, 10:43 AM   #363
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Just recap - In the last 24 hours

*Trump tweeted a Qanon conspiracy theory about the 75 year old guy pushed to the ground. (I saw it yesterday on Twitter. Saying the guy actually had blood capsules planted on him and that you don't know the truth because 5G networks are blocking the real story )

*The press sec. touted Trump's 8% African American vote in 2016 as her answer to the question - "Does Donald Trump think that Black Lives Matter?"

*Trump hires attorneys to refute polling by CNN and several others showing him 7 to 14 points behind Biden nationally.

* Iowa has started to block mail in voting after seeing large turnout in the primary.

*Trump campaign bought a 400,000 dollar ad buy in Washington DC, for the sole purpose of making the president feel better, after he went ballistic seeing ProjectLincoln ads.

* An new House Bill is being put forward that nuclear or other strategic weapons can't be used to stop hurricanes or alter weather patterns.

Yes. This is real life.
please let this end.
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Old 06-09-2020, 10:59 AM   #364
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*Trump campaign bought a 400,000 dollar ad buy in Washington DC, for the sole purpose of making the president feel better, after he went ballistic seeing ProjectLincoln ads.
This is good news, actually.

Let him dump millions of dollars into areas where he has zero chance of winning.
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Old 06-09-2020, 11:01 AM   #365
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This, and ensuring his enablers in the Senate are sent packing as well, remains the most critical issue of the day.

NONE of the issues that are being debated by different sides of the left of center will be addressed if the cancer is not removed.
It is SO much about the Senate.

Right now we've got...

AZ
CO
IA
NC
MT
Maine
And even KY

All looking promising.
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Old 06-09-2020, 11:08 AM   #366
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it looks like (knock on wood) AZ and CO are locked up. double digit leads for the D.
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Old 06-09-2020, 12:02 PM   #367
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https://twitter.com/jdubsense/status...204652035?s=21

Seems to be the common belief.
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Old 06-09-2020, 12:26 PM   #368
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https://twitter.com/mrronclark_/stat...552391169?s=21

Lots of reports coming out of GA about machines not working, not enough paper ballots or other tools

Long lines that aren’t moving, and people giving up.

A nice dry run for November
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Old 06-09-2020, 01:18 PM   #369
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Kamala dropped out because she ran out of money. There’s a good argument that Biden helped crowd out a large, talented field by owning the moderate lane. “Blacks” didn’t really have much of a chance to vote for her.

I think BLM has very broad support, especially amongst black voters, but “defund the police” and “Kamal is a cop” has relevance for smaller and smaller amounts of voters. I really would cautious to want anyone about pushing DTP — polling puts it at about 16% support. The slogan is bad, and the meme against Harris is cruel and wrong.

I did read your article. I had read it before. I found it offense on your end — saying, here, read this article written by a black woman saying why she doesn’t like a black woman. You were presenting black voters as a monolith, and they’re just not.

Right now, Harris is doing the good work of etching out ground between what the leadership of BLM wants and mainstream opinion and explaining what they mean so they don’t blow this election for us by scaring the suburbs

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kamala...und-the-police

I have a lot of friends a little bit younger than me. A lot of them are the white jacobins I’ve been referencing. I’m sorry if you found that offensive but I’m really worried by this. “Defund the police” is now *the* conversation, and it will give Trump a perfect way to climb out of the polling hole he’s in — Trump has just been tossed a life preserver by leftists activists, and THIS is what I’m pulling my hair out over.

I’m not a moderate. But I’m also not a leftist.


Kamala ran out of money because she failed to garner support with her target audiences (despite polling up to 20% at some points). Because black people didn’t vote for her.

You found offense to me sharing an article written by a black woman about black people, even though I made no attempt at identifying her race or gender as a means to support my argument. I shared the article because it had good insight. You then said something about “other black journalists” on your own accord, without any provocation. That’s where your mind went, not mine.

You’re accusing me of grouping a large group of people into an individual view, when I did no such thing, and I provided an article that clearly stated some unique perspectives on each different group. I also identified that black millennials are the strongest demographic in BLM, to which you entirely ignored and tried to just use an argument of “I am there and I see otherwise” - yet numbers disagree. You’re the one who just simply, with no backing argument, stated that everyone would be happy or enthused by Harris. Facts and fact-backed suppositions do not support that.

You flat out need to stop saying “white jacobins” - you’re white. You’re not the authority on how people of color see white people, and you’re not the authority on how their political views stand. Neither am I, but this idea that you can criticize a class of people that you’ve entirely made up as a potentially out of touch and unaware group of people with BLM is absurd, if only because that class of millennial white people is probably second most common contributing demographic to BLM.

The “radical” response with “defunding the police” is what that movement wants. They want change. It’s not a life preserver, it’s what would actually get them to vote. Anger at the failed system would actually make millennials vote. Particularly black millennials voting at more local levels. And black men in general right now... let’s just take a stab in the dark here... probably want to vote for some radical police reform. That doesn’t mean the candidate needs to be a radical. It means they’re more likely to be single issue voters now, and if the ticket is put forward with a contrary thesis to police reform (like selecting Harris), you’ve got a problem on your hands.

Stacey Abrams isn’t a freaking radical. She’s pretty moderate. She’s more likely to be trusted by black voters, who have no reason to associate her with being part of the god damn problem. You can plug your ears and say it’s all made up all you want.
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Old 06-09-2020, 02:08 PM   #370
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Kamala ran out of money because she failed to garner support with her target audiences (despite polling up to 20% at some points). Because black people didn’t vote for her.
they didn't vote for Booker either. why?

Booker dropped out January 13. Harris dropped out in December of 2019.

black people didn't get a chance to vote for them. they dropped out because of polling numbers and because of money. so let's put that aside -- there was no voting. there was a lack of money and enthusiasm as they were pushed out by Biden in the middle, and, of course, Bernie.




Quote:
You found offense to me sharing an article written by a black woman about black people, even though I made no attempt at identifying her race or gender as a means to support my argument. I shared the article because it had good insight. You then said something about “other black journalists” on your own accord, without any provocation. That’s where your mind went, not mine.

you posted her argument as a counter to my assertion that the people mostly likely to be upset with a Harris VP nomination would be the white millennials, not BLM or black people in general. it was an article written by a black millennial where she calls out the Bernie Bros and says that black people knew about Kamala being a cop before the white bros started taking the credit for calling out another woman for being insufficiently radical and not dismantling California's criminal justice system. the article was about race, top to bottom. and it seem intended to be a way of saying, "look, here are the black millennials I'm talking about who don't like Harris, listen to them." if that wasn't your intention, what was it?



Quote:
You’re accusing me of grouping a large group of people into an individual view, when I did no such thing, and I provided an article that clearly stated some unique perspectives on each different group. I also identified that black millennials are the strongest demographic in BLM, to which you entirely ignored and tried to just use an argument of “I am there and I see otherwise” - yet numbers disagree. You’re the one who just simply, with no backing argument, stated that everyone would be happy or enthused by Harris. Facts and fact-backed suppositions do not support that.

you said:

Quote:
Quote:
do you genuinely think that the black community will respond positively to Kamala Harris, just because she's black? Movements like BLM are literally comprised of the same people calling out "Kamala is a cop"
that's an awful lot of grouping of people into an individual view. the black community? what does that even mean? if we are to go by actual voting, "the black community" supports Joe Biden who does not support DTP.



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You flat out need to stop saying “white jacobins” - you’re white. You’re not the authority on how people of color see white people, and you’re not the authority on how their political views stand. Neither am I, but this idea that you can criticize a class of people that you’ve entirely made up as a potentially out of touch and unaware group of people with BLM is absurd, if only because that class of millennial white people is probably second most common contributing demographic to BLM.

i'll use the term as i see fit. it's my view, i'm not sure where you got the idea that i think that's the view of people of color. nowhere did i write anything that should give you such an idea -- i know exactly who i am talking about. it's great that young, leftists white people support BLM. i support BLM. i support some leftist views. but the lashing of BLM onto "abolish capitalism" isn't, in my view, what the majority of protestors want.

however, out of touch and unaware seems to be a fairly accurate description give the 16% polling of DTP, as well as the scramble today to say "wait, wait, wait ... here's what we mean when we say defund the police."

imagine i'm a charter school advocate. how politically smart of it would be to run under the slogan DEFUND PUBLIC SCHOOLS!

not smart. not aware. totally out of touch.




Quote:
The “radical” response with “defunding the police” is what that movement wants. They want change. It’s not a life preserver, it’s what would actually get them to vote. Anger at the failed system would actually make millennials vote. Particularly black millennials voting at more local levels. And black men in general right now... let’s just take a stab in the dark here... probably want to vote for some radical police reform. That doesn’t mean the candidate needs to be a radical. It means they’re more likely to be single issue voters now, and if the ticket is put forward with a contrary thesis to police reform (like selecting Harris), you’ve got a problem on your hands.

that's great that it's what the movement wants, as i've said repeatedly, i'm in agreement with many of their goals. i've also said repeatedly: it's completely fucking stupid, tone deaf messaging. it absolutely is a life preserver for the Trump voter who is sick of Trump, sick of having to defend literally everything, is taking a look at Biden and seeing a reasonable person ... and then, after a bunch of looting and violence, DTP? seriously?

young activists need to realize that the real world functions very differently from a college campus. i would absolutely argue that the persuasive power of DTP in getting young people out to vote would be vastly outweighed by the suburban and exurban backlash it would cause.

i also think you need to better familiarize yourself with Harris's record. it doesn't run as contrary to police reform as it's been sold by some activists. i don't think it would cause any cognitive dissonance on the ticket itself, and in fact, Harris's skills as a prosecutor might be exactly what's needed to explain what police reform would look, sound, and feel like to the middle.



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Stacey Abrams isn’t a freaking radical. She’s pretty moderate. She’s more likely to be trusted by black voters, who have no reason to associate her with being part of the god damn problem. You can plug your ears and say it’s all made up all you want.

this is out of nowhere. where have i criticized Stacey Abrams in the past few pages?

you're also intuiting the will of black voters -- again, not a monolith.

my issues with Abrams have nothing at all to do with what's been discussed.

and i'd still happily support Abrams were she on the ticket. i'm not trying to assassinate good candidates over small differences, or of being insufficiently whatever. i see real, genuine talent in Harris, and i'd rather work with that to actually effect change than say i voted for the person who lost but held the right positions while doing so because i'm pure.

that's not you. but that is often the white Jacobin millennial position.
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Old 06-09-2020, 03:08 PM   #371
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they didn't vote for Booker either. why?



Booker dropped out January 13. Harris dropped out in December of 2019.



black people didn't get a chance to vote for them. they dropped out because of polling numbers and because of money. so let's put that aside -- there was no voting. there was a lack of money and enthusiasm as they were pushed out by Biden in the middle, and, of course, Bernie.
Omg, polling, voting, whatever you want to call it. Neither of them polled well with black voters. Why? Many reasons.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/1...rs-2020-075651

Most arguments you will read will pretty much say the same thing. They assumed that that target audience would just gravitate towards them, rather than actually possessing a strong reason to be the nominee. If that was a problem for their polling numbers, why on earth would you think it’s going to fare well on a ticket?

No I’m not “putting it aside.” I’m also not going to just fire off a million articles at you. You can search for yourself. There’s tons of commentary on why Harris wasn’t well received by black voters. Electability as a female, sincerity, track record, assumptive vote. She didn’t just run out of money and say “oh well geez, I’m out of money good golly!” She failed to attract her target demographics and had no viable path to the nomination, and that’s why the money stopped pouring in in the first place. Or maybe this is just me using a token black female socialist’s journalism again, who clearly writes for white millennials.







Quote:
you posted her argument as a counter to my assertion that the people mostly likely to be upset with a Harris VP nomination would be the white millennials, not BLM or black people in general. it was an article written by a black millennial where she calls out the Bernie Bros and says that black people knew about Kamala being a cop before the white bros started taking the credit for calling out another woman for being insufficiently radical and not dismantling California's criminal justice system. the article was about race, top to bottom. and it seem intended to be a way of saying, "look, here are the black millennials I'm talking about who don't like Harris, listen to them." if that wasn't your intention, what was it?
I posted an article that carefully details the different demographic responses to “Kamala is a cop” and why it’s important to not just assume it’s one group of people doing that, just like you have been assuming.


I’m not sure you even understand what you’re being criticized for. I never said “this article was written by a black millennial” and never bothered my ass to judge the demographic of the author, nor did I look at her name or picture. I judged the content of the article as a sufficient example for the point I wished to convey in response to your supposedly sole view that BLM is your brand of center-left slowly progressive movement that would be happy to have Kamala Harris, of all people, on the ticket. The substance of the article supports that’s a bad decision, if you understand the demographics of BLM. Which, maybe you don’t. You’re the one who whipped out a generic article about VP choices for Joe Biden which favored Harris for a numerous reasons and said “hey look a black guy wrote this, in your face Chris, I saw you tried to say BLM demographics don’t jive well with Harris but this black guy wrote an article that said she’s great for the job.”











Quote:
you said:







that's an awful lot of grouping of people into an individual view. the black community? what does that even mean? if we are to go by actual voting, "the black community" supports Joe Biden who does not support DTP.
Are you genuinely asking what “the black community” is? Which, in this case is more accurately “communities,” but the point stands. You’re pretending as though I’ve endorsed defunding the police, because YOU identify that as the only radical or revolutionary change that can be made here. The bottom line is that the black community(ies) are demanding extreme reform. These protests are occurring because the concept of a one day peace protest didn’t suffice. Rioters are destroying things because voices have not been heard. These are natural consequences of peaceful protests and processes being unsuccessful. The response is more extreme, and the demand is more “radical” if that’s what you want to call it. It’s a quintessential phenomenon of human rights. Can only reiterate it so many times - the people on the streets don’t want - or hold on since you’ll mock me for using a generalization in my language - most people in the streets do not want a candidate that isn’t poised to deliver large scale and immediate reform that you call “radical.”










Quote:
i'll use the term as i see fit. it's my view, i'm not sure where you got the idea that i think that's the view of people of color. nowhere did i write anything that should give you such an idea -- i know exactly who i am talking about. it's great that young, leftists white people support BLM. i support BLM. i support some leftist views. but the lashing of BLM onto "abolish capitalism" isn't, in my view, what the majority of protestors want.

however, out of touch and unaware seems to be a fairly accurate description give the 16% polling of DTP, as well as the scramble today to say "wait, wait, wait ... here's what we mean when we say defund the police."

Abolish capitalism? What tangents are you running off on here? You’re already fixated on the notion that defunding the police is the demand, which it’s not. You’re just chewing up garbage when you say that. On top of that you’re now suggesting that there’s some socialist element to this? Since fucking when? There’s no socialist element to defunding the police, not that that’s even the message being delivered.

Quote:

imagine i'm a charter school advocate. how politically smart of it would be to run under the slogan DEFUND PUBLIC SCHOOLS!



not smart. not aware. totally out of touch.
And at this point you’re completely sounding like Donald Trump, as though the conversation is about why kneeling is disrespectful to the flag when we both know that’s not the conversation being had. Kamala Harris is a cop. Get back on track. You think BLM voters would be enthusiastic about her selection because no reason at all but facts don’t support that, and she has a history of not standing for the current immediate demands of the BLM movement, and in many cases actually stood for the opposite demands (“tough on crime”).








Quote:
that's great that it's what the movement wants, as i've said repeatedly, i'm in agreement with many of their goals. i've also said repeatedly: it's completely fucking stupid, tone deaf messaging. it absolutely is a life preserver for the Trump voter who is sick of Trump, sick of having to defend literally everything, is taking a look at Biden and seeing a reasonable person ... and then, after a bunch of looting and violence, DTP? seriously?
And perhaps that’s the single quote you’re using from me that’s guiding your over-the-tip focus on “defunding the police,” which you’ve continued to further centralize by even giving it an acronym. It’s not the only solution being screamed, but they’re all “radical.” I for one am screaming “disarm the police” because I do not see a solution posed by “defunding” them. Just allows them to be racist on a budget.


Quote:
young activists need to realize that the real world functions very differently from a college campus. i would absolutely argue that the persuasive power of DTP in getting young people out to vote would be vastly outweighed by the suburban and exurban backlash it would cause.
Great and all for you to criticize these young activists for not understanding how it works, but maybe you forgot that this type of response was triggered by 60+ years of telling the same people “that’s not how you get change.” Yet nothing had changed. So, great on you, you tell em how it’s done. They’ll be sure to control their views so as to not upset suburban white Trump voters.



Quote:
i also think you need to better familiarize yourself with Harris's record. it doesn't run as contrary to police reform as it's been sold by some activists. i don't think it would cause any cognitive dissonance on the ticket itself, and in fact, Harris's skills as a prosecutor might be exactly what's needed to explain what police reform would look, sound, and feel like to the middle.
The argument you’re putting forward works better for Demings and not for Harris. And regardless of what argument you put forward here, the one you’ll never win is reality vs actuality. Harris’s name is tainted as California’s top cop, and it really doesn’t matter if you think that the actuality of that isn’t what meets the eye. If you give this movement zero enthusiasm and zero hope, they will stay home. Harris will do so, because of how she is perceived.









Quote:
you're also intuiting the will of black voters -- again, not a monolith.

I can’t do this anymore. If you think that’s what I’m doing, but meanwhile you’re arguing in direct opposition of all of my points, what are you doing?

Stacey Abrams is more likely to be trusted by black voters and it’s not because I cast a giant net on black voters like you’re suggesting. I have clearly identified black millennials and BLM constituents as those I believe to be in question. They’re critically important - they showed up in 2008 disproportionately to their age group, and right now they’re driving the narrative, influencing people, and generating enthusiasm against the system.
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Old 06-09-2020, 04:06 PM   #372
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All these protests will mean nothing if our elections are stolen from us.

In specific case of GA, if Atlanta can’t function on Election Day there is no way GA goes blue for any race
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Old 06-09-2020, 04:39 PM   #373
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Omg, polling, voting, whatever you want to call it. Neither of them polled well with black voters. Why? Many reasons.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/1...rs-2020-075651

Most arguments you will read will pretty much say the same thing. They assumed that that target audience would just gravitate towards them, rather than actually possessing a strong reason to be the nominee. If that was a problem for their polling numbers, why on earth would you think it’s going to fare well on a ticket?

No I’m not “putting it aside.” I’m also not going to just fire off a million articles at you. You can search for yourself. There’s tons of commentary on why Harris wasn’t well received by black voters. Electability as a female, sincerity, track record, assumptive vote. She didn’t just run out of money and say “oh well geez, I’m out of money good golly!” She failed to attract her target demographics and had no viable path to the nomination, and that’s why the money stopped pouring in in the first place. Or maybe this is just me using a token black female socialist’s journalism again, who clearly writes for white millennials.


This is all I have time for today:

My problem with your posts on this topic began when you said:

Quote:
“the “kamala is a cop” thing will pretty much destroy her value to the black community in the current climate”
That’s where you went wrong, and that’s what’s led you down these rabbit holes. You didn’t say “BLM voters.” You said “the black community.” That’s why the MJ article felt like you were saying “look, here’s a black woman telling us that the reason that she’s not doing well with black voters is because she’s a cop” and you supported that view with your statement that being AG of California has already “destroyed” her value to black voters.

I disagree. I think black voters especially have much more nuanced views on this topic, and on Harris, because she’s a complex, nuanced candidate. To think that she has no value because of a single meme is silly, and my flip response was to say that it’s the “white Jacobin millennials” – certainly a much, much smaller group than “the black community” – who are most persuaded by this meme.

Further, law enforcement and reform also doesn’t come close to explaining why she didn’t go further in the campaign. In fact, that article you posted literally supports exactly what I’ve been saying, and it has nothing to do with criminal justice reform or “Kamala is a cop.” But don’t take my word for it, let’s look at the article you posted:

Quote:
Quote:
That collective choice by black voters so far in this campaign has been one of the most misunderstood dynamics of the Democratic primary. Harris’ campaign and others initially expected South Carolina, with its majority-black Democratic electorate, to be a source of strength for her. But Biden has prevented any other candidate from breaking through there this year, even as his poll numbers have flagged in other, whiter early primary and caucus states.
A review of public polling and interviews with black strategists, activists and Democratic officials explains why African American voters have largely gotten behind non-black candidates: a medley of concerns about Harris’ and Booker’s electability, their authenticity and their campaign styles, all of which prevented them from effectively challenging Biden’s enduring — and, to some, surprising — strength among African Americans.

It was always about Biden. I’d rather a Booker or Harris be the nominee. But that’s not what happened.

While I myself am a center-left slow progressive who values process and legitimacy gained through reason and debate to win hearts and minds, I don’t think BLM itself is. It’s a protest movement with demands. I’m fine with that. There’s space for everyone.

I do think, however, that the tens of thousands of protesters in the streets are more in my lane than not. I do think they would have policy differences with the leadership of BLM. But guess what? That’s ok. Marching with BLM doesn’t mean you support their every position. It means you support them in this moment, and that everyone has agreed upon a common enemy: Donald Trump.


Quote:
most people in the streets do not want a candidate that isn’t poised to deliver large scale and immediate reform that you call “radical.”

You’re probably right that the core of BLM would prefer someone other than Harris. But the tens of thousands of people marching under the banner of BLM, many of whom are black and white and brown and mixed-race and old and young, are probably going to be just fine with a VP Harris.

You’re also ignoring what Harris – as you say, “of all people” – has been up to this week, as has been pointed out in this thread by others, that she’s actually doing a really good job explaining what the movement is about.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kamala...und-the-police

I’m pretty sure black voters, even BLM millennials who write for Mother Jones, will give her props for this. I do not think Harris will turn away black voters in any sort of significant numbers if she’s on the ticket. You have no evidence that she will; her inability to breakthrough in 2019 is not evidence, as the article you posted makes clear.

I also understand that it’s easy to personalize comments in here. I don’t think you’re a white Jacobin Millennial. I didn’t say that you, personally, want to defund the police. I do agree with understanding rioting-as-expression in context – I pointed to Stonewall the night things started burning. I agree with “disarm” as a better D-word. However, DTP, which I’m typing in shorthand, is absolutely the topic of conversation this week. And it is not popular, as the polling posted by Headache makes clear.


Quote:
Kamala Harris is a cop. Get back on track. You think BLM voters would be enthusiastic about her selection because no reason at all but facts don’t support that, and she has a history of not standing for the current immediate demands of the BLM movement, and in many cases actually stood for the opposite demands (“tough on crime”).

I hope I have gotten back on track with this post and it's clearer to you now.



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Great and all for you to criticize these young activists for not understanding how it works, but maybe you forgot that this type of response was triggered by 60+ years of telling the same people “that’s not how you get change.” Yet nothing had changed. So, great on you, you tell em how it’s done. They’ll be sure to control their views so as to not upset suburban white Trump voters.

If you don’t think that things are better than they were in 1964, or 1984, I don’t know what to tell you. Of course it needs to get better. But, yes, things have changed. And if folks would like to win back the white house and the Senate so that they can enact real, substantial changed, they will absolutely watch the political center.

Anything beyond that is ego.



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The argument you’re putting forward works better for Demings and not for Harris. And regardless of what argument you put forward here, the one you’ll never win is reality vs actuality. Harris’s name is tainted as California’s top cop, and it really doesn’t matter if you think that the actuality of that isn’t what meets the eye. If you give this movement zero enthusiasm and zero hope, they will stay home. Harris will do so, because of how she is perceived.

I just don’t agree with this.

I think Demmings would make for an interesting VP choice, but she literally was a cop.
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Old 06-09-2020, 05:36 PM   #374
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Just when you think Trump can't be a bigger piece of shit, he always comes through-going after that elderly protester with his wackadoodle theories. Depraved egomaniacal man baby.

I guess because he thinks his base doesn't care much about George Floyd, but they care about an elderly white man?

Somehow I don't think Antifa has elderly members. Maybe they paid him, he needed to supplement his Social Security.
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Old 06-09-2020, 05:36 PM   #375
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If you don’t think that things are better than they were in 1964, or 1984, I don’t know what to tell you. Of course it needs to get better. But, yes, things have changed. And if folks would like to win back the white house and the Senate so that they can enact real, substantial changed, they will absolutely watch the political center.

Anything beyond that is ego.






I just don’t agree with this.

I think Demmings would make for an interesting VP choice, but she literally was a cop.

Way too many frustrating comments (like your insistence to keep on pushing an unnecessary derogatory term that you’ve made up) so I’m just cutting to the chase.

You’re tone deaf if you think you can make that statement about 1964 and 1984. It’s like burping out “all lives matter.” Do they? Yeah, they do. Factual statement. Is the sentiment what you should be saying? Fuck no. Try explaining “it’s gotten better so you should accept that maybe your kid’s kid’s kid’s kids won’t have to live in fear and injustice!!!” to the people who can’t tell the damn difference between every damn day of their lives, and don’t give a shit about how they went from position 573 to position 571 when you and I are up in the top 10. Sorry, “things have changed” is bullshit. It’s not “ego.” You’re tone deaf. We are witnessing what we are witnessing because nothing is measurably changing. It’s one thing when you make this argument about “should I pay my health insurance to the government vs the private industry.” It’s another thing when you’re witnessing people talk about something so covert and moralistic.

And yes my point about Demings was absolutely that your “she played for the other side so she knows how to fix it” far more fits her than it does Harris.

And as a last bit, fact that you think perception isn’t more important than reality is notable. That’s the very basis of things like sexism. Candidates like Harris probably suffered from the classical perception of softness due to her gender in the primaries, even if she’s tough. That’s perhaps why she built up this “tough on crime” image that is an old and tried method that Democrats generally aren’t interested in. She is strong, and that’s the last thing people need. They need a trustworthy, honest, and relatable candidate that they believe owns their interests. Even if that’s true or not (see Trump, Donald J.).
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Old 06-09-2020, 05:44 PM   #376
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Voting in a swing state under corrupt republican leaders...

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1270433009033007106

Many in line said they were there because they had requested absentee ballots and they never received them.
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Old 06-09-2020, 05:47 PM   #377
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TIL that things are better now than they were for my parents and grandparents' generations.

now if you'll excuse me i have to go mow the lawn of the suburban home that i was able to afford with my factory wages and then drive down to the bank to make the final payment on the $4000 loan that paid for my entire university degree.
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Old 06-09-2020, 06:02 PM   #378
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Between this and the GOP being all, "Old people can be sacrificed for the economy" in recent months, seems they've just completely given up on trying to appeal to the elderly base they've got then, huh? It's all strictly Trump supporters they care about, and screw everyone else.

Hopefully that helps drive older people away from the GOP in droves, then.

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* Iowa has started to block mail in voting after seeing large turnout in the primary.
God fucking damnit, Iowa. Not surprising, though-like I said, Democrats are currently ahead of Republicans in terms of voter registration here in this state, so of course the GOP would try and do anything they could to tamp it down.

I hope it backfires on them. Big time.

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All these protests will mean nothing if our elections are stolen from us.

In specific case of GA, if Atlanta can’t function on Election Day there is no way GA goes blue for any race
This. I'd really like to hear more talk about what we can do about the inevitable voter suppression the GOP will be trying as the election nears. We know full well that Republicans in Congress will continue to refuse to do anything about election security, so what can we citizens do to ensure that everyone not only can be allowed to vote, but can have their votes accurately counted?

As for the whole "defund/reform the police" thing, I mean, honestly, no matter what the mantra, the right will still find some way to try and make it sound bad, and it's frustrating that we have to constantly be careful about our messaging based off what the GOP will say about it. It'd be nice to be able to stand firm with our messaging for a change.

Also, I have never heard the term "white Jacobin" before. Off to Google.
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Old 06-09-2020, 06:05 PM   #379
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You’re tone deaf if you think you can make that statement about 1964 and 1984. It’s like burping out “all lives matter.” Do they? Yeah, they do. Factual statement. Is the sentiment what you should be saying? Fuck no. Try explaining “it’s gotten better so you should accept that maybe your kid’s kid’s kid’s kids won’t have to live in fear and injustice!!!” to the people who can’t tell the damn difference between every damn day of their lives, and don’t give a shit about how they went from position 573 to position 571 when you and I are up in the top 10. Sorry, “things have changed” is bullshit.

for god's sake, stop putting words in my mouth, that's fucking offensive, especially because in the above they are hyperbolic and nonsensical. i know you're angry, and you should be, but i am not your enemy nor am i an impediment to progress.

you literally said that nothing has gotten better in 60 years. that is false. it just is false. it's not about complacency and telling people to go home and watch TV. it's about understanding that we live in a democracy. things take time to get better. you can't just seize power and impose change through sheer force of will. i'm sorry it's frustrating and slow. you have to win elections. you have to be better than the people who would keep you down. the moral genius of Barack Obama was to give health care to the children of people who would call him the N-word. that's how you win.

it is vastly better to be a gay person in 2020 than it was when i came out in 2001. of course it isn't perfect, but i'm mindful of the fact that i can't expect change to happen overnight.

it is also true that things can get worse when there's overreach. this is about being smart, which is more important than being right.




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It’s not “ego.” You’re tone deaf. We are witnessing what we are witnessing because nothing is measurably changing. It’s one thing when you make this argument about “should I pay my health insurance to the government vs the private industry.” It’s another thing when you’re witnessing people talk about something so covert and moralistic.

what is ego is wanting to be "right" rather than being smart. the rest of this is so unfocused that i'm not sure how to respond. what do you mean that "nothing is measurably changing?" i'm confused by the word "covert." what do you mean here?



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And yes my point about Demings was absolutely that your “she played for the other side so she knows how to fix it” far more fits her than it does Harris.

great. maybe Demings will go down better with the BLM core. she will also probably better play with the white suburbanites, who are dramatically moving away from Trump as this week's polling has shown us.

this doesn't at all mean that Harris is poison.



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And as a last bit, fact that you think perception isn’t more important than reality is notable. That’s the very basis of things like sexism. Candidates like Harris probably suffered from the classical perception of softness due to her gender in the primaries, even if she’s tough. That’s perhaps why she built up this “tough on crime” image that is an old and tried method that Democrats generally aren’t interested in. She is strong, and that’s the last thing people need. They need a trustworthy, honest, and relatable candidate that they believe owns their interests. Even if that’s true or not (see Trump, Donald J.).

i think perception is more important than reality? i think perception creates reality, but i'm also lost as to what you can mean by most of his paragraph.

the "tough on crime" image is something that a female and a black AG is absolutely going to have to be. it's unfortunate, but it's true. it's why Kerry was the nominee in 2004, and why Clinton had his Sister Souljah moment during the 1992 campaign.

are you saying that it's more important to appeal to base voters via a VP who is soft on crime? who would that be?
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Old 06-09-2020, 06:09 PM   #380
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Also, I have never heard the term "white Jacobin" before. Off to Google.

It’s pejorative to call someone a “Jacobin” from the get go. Irvine decided to then make it also a racially related pejorative. And tacked on an age class to it was well, because he doesn’t like millennials.

Using a race related insult to indicate how not-woke that group is about race related issues is some woke-ception from another white man, though.
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