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Old 06-08-2020, 11:51 PM   #341
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(lost this post hours ago, trying again)

These past several days encompass
the 52nd Anniversary of the assassination of Robert F "Bobby" Kennedy - June 1968
shot 6/5, died 6/6, laid ln State (NYS Senator) at St Patrick's Cathedral 6/7, funeral procession to Penn Station for Funeral Train to DC to Arlington Cemetery 6/8

For a long time he was know as being Tough for various political actions. After his brother's President John F Kennedy assassination in '63 he plunged into deep sorrow. At some point he re-emeged and became Senator of NYS along with that an incredible sense of compassion, and empathy. When he was US AG he was read the riot act in a meeting with important black people of that time (some still alive). So he started to awaken in that way.

He went to visit, acknowledge, and learn from many people - The poor black people in cities, and the Mississippi Delta, the poor whites of the Appalachian hollows, migrant farm workers and Caeser Chavez, the Native Nations, etc. Poverty, racism, food insecurity, discrimination became some of his core issues.

Most of the nation was devastated by his loss. We had also only lost Dr King about two months earlier.

One of the most amazing things to me and many others (imho) - it turns out (book - RFK: A Raging Spirit) was that he was actually a gentle, empathetic child, but his father hated that so he began to suppress that side of himself and become tough physically through college football and mentally, etc.

His loss (he was sort of the final one) after JFK, Malcolm X, Dr King was the final turn in the road for America setting it in other directions.
We who remember know this.
(especially in stark contrast to u-know-who)

(and if you can't say anything nice don't say anything!)

u can open another thread for a discussion, and I'll be there, thank you.
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Old 06-09-2020, 12:00 AM   #342
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Dude how blind are you? Do you genuinely think Black Lives Matter, the single most prominent movement on the ground right now, is not filled with a myriad of not just your “white jacobin millennials”?

Do you genuinely think that the black community will respond positively to Kamala Harris, just because she’s black? Movements like BLM are literally comprised of the same people calling out “Kamala is a cop”. The supposed “white jacobin millennials” you’re describing are the ones making fucking change in the streets right now. And they’re not “white jacobin millennials.”

Like, I can’t believe you had the nerve to say literally any of that. Holy shit.
I don’t completely agree with your reaction here, but I do agree with your take on Harris, at least in a perception standpoint. I get she has a spotty record in her time in California. She did some very positive, even progressive things, and she did some more tough on crime, non-progressive things.

I’m torn here, because I do think a lot of the criticism was thrown around in the primary, and not sure that will really transfer fully to the general. But it might very well give Biden’s team pause on if it’s worth the risk.
Truly there is no doubt in my mind that it will be a black woman for VP. The odds chart that Headache shared that had Warren and Amy K near the top is ludicrous. Each of the top three black females has their pros and cons. Obviously Harris also doesn’t come with a swing state attached. So while I think Harris is very much in the top contenders, I think Demings it Abrams will edge her out in the end. Demings brings a much larger and tighter swing state to the mix, her law enforcement background, (when Trump is now surely going to run a “law and order/blue lives matter/anti-defund the police amp sign) and her recent spotlight in the trump impeachment. She will be hard to beat.
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Old 06-09-2020, 12:02 AM   #343
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Old 06-09-2020, 12:12 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by dazzledbylight View Post
(lost this post hours ago, trying again)

These past several days encompass
the 52nd Anniversary of the assassination of Robert F "Bobby" Kennedy - June 1968
shot 6/5, died 6/6, laid ln State (NYS Senator) at St Patrick's Cathedral 6/7, funeral procession to Penn Station for Funeral Train to DC to Arlington Cemetery 6/8

For a long time he was know as being Tough for various political actions. After his brother's President John F Kennedy assassination in '63 he plunged into deep sorrow. At some point he re-emeged and became Senator of NYS along with that an incredible sense of compassion, and empathy. When he was US AG he was read the riot act in a meeting with important black people of that time (some still alive). So he started to awaken in that way.

He went to visit, acknowledge, and learn from many people - The poor black people in cities, and the Mississippi Delta, the poor whites of the Appalachian hollows, migrant farm workers and Caeser Chavez, the Native Nations, etc. Poverty, racism, food insecurity, discrimination became some of his core issues.

Most of the nation was devastated by his loss. We had also only lost Dr King about two months earlier.

One of the most amazing things to me and many others (imho) - it turns out (book - RFK: A Raging Spirit) was that he was actually a gentle, empathetic child, but his father hated that so he began to suppress that side of himself and become tough physically through college football and mentally, etc.

His loss (he was sort of the final one) after JFK, Malcolm X, Dr King was the final turn in the road for America setting it in other directions.
We who remember know this.
(especially in stark contrast to u-know-who)

(and if you can't say anything nice don't say anything!)

u can open another thread for a discussion, and I'll be there, thank you.
Bobby was an amazing soul. One wonders what his future would have meant for America had he not been taken from us.
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Old 06-09-2020, 12:22 AM   #345
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Soooooo... Trump campaign and MAGA shit stains are actually pushing this video on YouTube as a good thing.

https://youtu.be/Gvvqq2tPTH8

Ps. Romney actually won 6% of the black vote running against Obama.
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Old 06-09-2020, 01:02 AM   #346
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I know, right?! Unbelievable!

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Originally Posted by LemonMelon View Post
Some tweets from the timeline where Trump loses on election night 2020:

GEORGE SOROS BOUGHT THE ELECTION. SAD!

ANTIFA AND THE BLACK PANTHERS COWED THE INNOCENTS OF AMERICA

WITHOUT MY LEADERSHIP, ENJOY 4 YEARS OF SODDOM AND GAMERA

YOU CAN'T SILENCE THE TRUTH WITHOUT A FIGHT

SAVE THE BABIES FROM OBAMAGATE #OBAMAGATE

I HAVE MANY FRIENDS IN THE MILITARY

CHINA!!!


Did you borrow Edge's time machine?!

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Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
And I’m arguing he’s more willing to use extreme tactics for self preservation right now, as he has entirely lost it and if he admits defeat then his four years of refusing to ever acknowledge minor defeats will have been for naught.
I definitely have some worries about this.

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Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
Oh I'm sure he'll try but he won't be successful. The secret service will drag his ass out by his long ties if he refuses to leave. The courts won't back him, and McConnell will dump his carcass by the side of the road the second he's not politically useful anymore.
You're probably right about McConnell, he's a bastard, but smarter than Drumph.

I like that "...drag him out by his long ties..."

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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
All of this is true.

But what's concerning is his army of MAGA voters who will absolutely hang on to every word he says and many of whom are (a) armed to the teeth and (b) willing to go "liberate" themselves from their tyrannical leftist mayors, governors, senators and fellow citizens.
Yeah, that's pretty scary... only there are waaay more of us. I think that that part of the US population of Trump supporters subset are closer to like maybe only 15%+ . I could be wrong.
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Old 06-09-2020, 01:03 AM   #347
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US Politics XXIII: Law & Order SOU (Stupid Orange Unit)

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Dude how blind are you? Do you genuinely think Black Lives Matter, the single most prominent movement on the ground right now, is not filled with a myriad of not just your “white jacobin millennials”?

Do you genuinely think that the black community will respond positively to Kamala Harris, just because she’s black? Movements like BLM are literally comprised of the same people calling out “Kamala is a cop”. The supposed “white jacobin millennials” you’re describing are the ones making fucking change in the streets right now. And they’re not “white jacobin millennials.”

Like, I can’t believe you had the nerve to say literally any of that. Holy shit.



Many, many people, many of them in BLM, and supportive of BLM, and likely most of the protestors on the streets right now, including myself, would be absolutely fine if not totally enthusiastic with Harris as a VP. I can’t believe how narrow your scope is. Do you really think all of BLM is so myopic that they can’t understand Harris as anything but “a cop”? That they are incapable of looking at her record with nuance and context? Thst as a black female AG she doesn’t get the luxury of being a crusading reformer? That she also doesn’t bring a remarkable skill set to the ticket? That there’s only one issue they will ever vote on? That it’s all about purity tests like it is for the white Jacobin Millenials?

Holy shit. We’re going to eat our own again?

You know who’s a much, much larger group than a writer in Mother Jones? Black voters. The ones who made Biden the nominee. The ones who show up and actually vote.

You know who doesn’t find the “Kamal is a cop” nonsense a non-starter? Other black journalists.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...e-is-his-best/


I don’t think Harris is scared of a simplistic meme, and I think you’re wrong to think it erases her as a top tier candidate and asset to the ticket.
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Old 06-09-2020, 01:14 AM   #348
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Bobby was an amazing soul. One wonders what his future would have meant for America had he not been taken from us.
Thanks. I know. A better one in general, I think.

I could have seen him if I'd gone to the Greek Parade (?March '68), but I wasn't a parade goer at that point. I had planned (as I'd already done volunteer work for Mayor John Lindsey's reelection) to catch him when he was back in NYC for the June 18th NYS Primary, and of course if he became the Democratic Nominee. (very long sigh, and teary eyed)

I went to pay my respects at St Patrick's that day. Saw the funeral procession on 34th St, then went home to study for the PSATs while watching the funeral train on TV. So sorrowful, so movingly poignant.
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Old 06-09-2020, 01:29 AM   #349
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Thanks for the article. It gives a pretty balanced view. Acknowledges that the “Kamala the cop” Was amplified by white Bernie/progressives, somewhat disingenuously, but that many black Americans were justifiably skeptical of Harris’ prosecutorial past.
I do think that the recent events will make it less likely for Harris to get the VP slot.

I also want to just put this out there. I know this is a tiny forum. A very enjoyable one, but tiny nonetheless. But, I think there comes a time (and this is not directed at you) when we have to acknowledge that the obsession with a candidate’s past mistakes is the Achilles heel of the Dem/liberal/progressive cause. At some point for the health of the party, the reality that no candidate is perfect needs to be accepted.
We have to look at the person now. What they stand for, what changes they have made, what history and mistakes they have left behind. Now Harris’ might be too fresh. As was Pete’s. But people do change and grow and it should be applauded not discarded because of political expediency. Harris is doing exceptional work as a Senator and I believe she is ranked as the number 1 liberal Senator in the chamber. I know this doesn’t mean shit to the progressive Twitter warriors who will battle against her as Trump and Pence ravage our country to its core, but it’s true nonetheless.

Sorry to rant, but Steve Schmidt was on MSNBC tonight. Just ravaged Trump as he is exceptionally good at. A Twitter comment said - “Fuck him, he was part of the team that chose Palin as VP, which ushered in Trump so he can’t speak”.
Really? We are going to throw away establishment Republicans that are excoriating Trump and doing all they can to beat him with scathing ads because 8 years ago he was part of a group decision to pull a Hail Mary with a VP pick that didn’t even become VP? This is the craziness I’m talking about.

Ok, thanks for reading, sorry for the wordiness and preachiness. Night all!
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Old 06-09-2020, 02:01 AM   #350
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Many, many people, many of them in BLM, and supportive of BLM, and likely most of the protestors on the streets right now, including myself, would be absolutely fine if not totally enthusiastic with Harris as a VP. I can’t believe how narrow your scope is. Do you really think all of BLM is so myopic that they can’t understand Harris as anything but “a cop”? That they are incapable of looking at her record with nuance and context? That she doesn’t bring a remarkable skill set? That there’s only one issue they will ever vote on? That it’s all about purity tests like it is for the white Jacobin Millenials?

Holy shit.
Just gonna go ahead and remove my flagrant post - your repeated use of the term “white jacobin millennial” is offensive as fuck and you’re simply trying to paste your moderate view onto a movement that is by no means moderate. Black people didn’t show to vote for Harris in the primary because they did their research, and she’s one of the worst fit candidates to adapt to the current BLM movement. And also you didn’t read my article, you just found an article from someone who was black and tried to use that as your rebuttal and it’s of incredibly poor taste.
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Old 06-09-2020, 06:42 AM   #351
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Dude how blind are you? Do you genuinely think Black Lives Matter, the single most prominent movement on the ground right now, is not filled with a myriad of not just your “white jacobin millennials”?

Do you genuinely think that the black community will respond positively to Kamala Harris, just because she’s black? Movements like BLM are literally comprised of the same people calling out “Kamala is a cop”. The supposed “white jacobin millennials” you’re describing are the ones making fucking change in the streets right now. And they’re not “white jacobin millennials.”

Like, I can’t believe you had the nerve to say literally any of that. Holy shit.

In Irvine's world, black leftists cannot possibly exist.
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Old 06-09-2020, 06:49 AM   #352
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https://today.yougov.com/topics/poli...m-america-poll
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Old 06-09-2020, 08:05 AM   #353
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In Irvine's world, black leftists cannot possibly exist.


What nonsense is this?

Of course they exist. Of course some don’t like Harris. Of course for some “Kamala is a cop” is profound and meaningful. Black people are not a monolith.

They are outnumbered by the moderates — the ones who saved Joe Biden’s ass — and in no way has BLM knocked Harris out of contention for VP. Which was LN7’s original point.
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Old 06-09-2020, 08:24 AM   #354
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Just gonna go ahead and remove my flagrant post - your repeated use of the term “white jacobin millennial” is offensive as fuck and you’re simply trying to paste your moderate view onto a movement that is by no means moderate. Black people didn’t show to vote for Harris in the primary because they did their research, and she’s one of the worst fit candidates to adapt to the current BLM movement. And also you didn’t read my article, you just found an article from someone who was black and tried to use that as your rebuttal and it’s of incredibly poor taste.



Kamala dropped out because she ran out of money. There’s a good argument that Biden helped crowd out a large, talented field by owning the moderate lane. “Blacks” didn’t really have much of a chance to vote for her.

I think BLM has very broad support, especially amongst black voters, but “defund the police” and “Kamal is a cop” has relevance for smaller and smaller amounts of voters. I really would cautious to want anyone about pushing DTP — polling puts it at about 16% support. The slogan is bad, and the meme against Harris is cruel and wrong.

I did read your article. I had read it before. I found it offense on your end — saying, here, read this article written by a black woman saying why she doesn’t like a black woman. You were presenting black voters as a monolith, and they’re just not.

Right now, Harris is doing the good work of etching out ground between what the leadership of BLM wants and mainstream opinion and explaining what they mean so they don’t blow this election for us by scaring the suburbs

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kamala...und-the-police

I have a lot of friends a little bit younger than me. A lot of them are the white jacobins I’ve been referencing. I’m sorry if you found that offensive but I’m really worried by this. “Defund the police” is now *the* conversation, and it will give Trump a perfect way to climb out of the polling hole he’s in — Trump has just been tossed a life preserver by leftists activists, and THIS is what I’m pulling my hair out over.

I’m not a moderate. But I’m also not a leftist.
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Old 06-09-2020, 08:40 AM   #355
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https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...528214018?s=21

Is it Election Day yet?
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Old 06-09-2020, 09:13 AM   #356
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I'm torn on this because, frankly, protests are not the place for establishing consensus. Protesters are not beholden to what the average American wants and should, if anything, be looking to change minds rather than pick up existing support. Negotiation can take place further down the line.

If the majority of Americans support body cams and instructing police officers to avoid using deadly force, great, but...duh? That is the absolute least that can be asked of an officer at this point. Warning systems manned by crooked leadership will bring out crooked results. These are all half measures when racist sheriffs are still being left to their own devices.

The best course of action, though not necessarily the most immediately realistic, is to start from scratch, establish a new normal with limitations on weapons and clear patrol boundaries. Set the tone for new recruits with instruction not on how to best subdue an individual, but what makes crime prevalent in the first place.

But...Joe Biden doesn't have to agree with any of this. It's very good information for him to have, who supports what solution and what he can do to bring in voters, but it's not his responsibility to be a community leader. We already have men and women in the streets on behalf of the cause. Biden is a politician and needs to understand what is best for him to say so he can get Trump out of office.

With that being said, I hope his administration is more ambitious than the average American if he wins the election, because these solutions are nowhere near sufficient. They give the status quo a fresh coat of paint.
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Old 06-09-2020, 09:51 AM   #357
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If this is true, then i completely agree. We need way more police. It took 100 cops to take down this 75 year old man. What happens when there’s two of them ???

There is no bottom for Trump or his supporters. He will continue to embarrass and embrace the worst of human nature
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Old 06-09-2020, 09:57 AM   #358
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So smartphones are now scanners that can black out police equipment.
That should stop any further brutality, just use your phone to turn their guns into flowers and their batons into churros.
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Old 06-09-2020, 09:59 AM   #359
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that's odd. i always thought that when police thought somebody was doing something illegal that they were supposed to arrest them, rather than shoving them to the ground and carrying on as if they just squashed a mosquito.
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Old 06-09-2020, 10:14 AM   #360
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I'm torn on this because, frankly, protests are not the place for establishing consensus. Protesters are not beholden to what the average American wants and should, if anything, be looking to change minds rather than pick up existing support. Negotiation can take place further down the line.

If the majority of Americans support body cams and instructing police officers to avoid using deadly force, great, but...duh? That is the absolute least that can be asked of an officer at this point. Warning systems manned by crooked leadership will bring out crooked results. These are all half measures when racist sheriffs are still being left to their own devices.

The best course of action, though not necessarily the most immediately realistic, is to start from scratch, establish a new normal with limitations on weapons and clear patrol boundaries. Set the tone for new recruits with instruction not on how to best subdue an individual, but what makes crime prevalent in the first place.

But...Joe Biden doesn't have to agree with any of this. It's very good information for him to have, who supports what solution and what he can do to bring in voters, but it's not his responsibility to be a community leader. We already have men and women in the streets on behalf of the cause. Biden is a politician and needs to understand what is best for him to say so he can get Trump out of office.

With that being said, I hope his administration is more ambitious than the average American if he wins the election, because these solutions are nowhere near sufficient. They give the status quo a fresh coat of paint.
This is a highly complex issue. It's why "reform the police" or "police reform now" is a much better calling cry than "defund the police" or the simply asinine "acab". (#newblue is stupid)

People understand policing needs major reforms. The polling backs that up. There's nuance to the issue of funding. Even those who are screaming "defund the police" don't all agree on exactly what that means.
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