womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Headache can confirm, but when he said "within our own walls" I believe he meant within the Democratic party/progressive/left/liberal/non-trump voters, not this forum.
US Politics XXII: Idk About You, But This Is Thread 22
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Headache can confirm, but when he said "within our own walls" I believe he meant within the Democratic party/progressive/left/liberal/non-trump voters, not this forum.
OP
OP
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
Folks, you have a spectrum of attitudes here.
You’re not going to have 100% compliance. Deal with that. You mightn’t get Peef’s vote, and you’re stuck with my Biden memes, but for the most part I’ve stopped my direct criticism and have focused more on fundamental arguments. I’ve indicated I can’t wait to vote for old man Joe, despite the fact that I’m not crazy about him.
I would venture to say Bernie loyalists (his 20-30%) are split, and likely progressive left (his other ~20% of people willing to vote for him) are mostly all onboard.
This shouldn’t come as a surprise. You can call his loyalists selfish and stubborn and whatever, but without them, without some consequence of pivoting back to the middle, we will continue to veer right. That disgruntlement is important.
You’re not going to have 100% compliance. Deal with that. You mightn’t get Peef’s vote, and you’re stuck with my Biden memes, but for the most part I’ve stopped my direct criticism and have focused more on fundamental arguments. I’ve indicated I can’t wait to vote for old man Joe, despite the fact that I’m not crazy about him.
I would venture to say Bernie loyalists (his 20-30%) are split, and likely progressive left (his other ~20% of people willing to vote for him) are mostly all onboard.
This shouldn’t come as a surprise. You can call his loyalists selfish and stubborn and whatever, but without them, without some consequence of pivoting back to the middle, we will continue to veer right. That disgruntlement is important.
Oh sure. That's totally what I'm suggesting.
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
Yep, I'd say you've been very level headed and a really good example of how anyone should handle their candidate not being the nominee, so kudos. And you're right. I think this was sparked by the whole racist ad that wasn't, with only really one member here trying to push it, so we can probably all drop it.
iron yuppie
ONE love, blood, life
Fine. If there's a baseline understanding that we're just shooting the shit about politics in here, as there should be, then the frequent retorts to any criticism of Biden as undermining his candidacy don't really serve any purpose. That's all I'm saying.
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Well said. and again, if Bernie had won the nom, I would be contributing, volunteering and running to the polls to vote for him. This is a moment in time that is unique in our country's history, and I hope never repeated. But you're right and have been a good example, so i will dial back any criticism even of stupid Twitter posters. lol.
Onward to a life without Trump.
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
agreed. I think that what this forum serves as is a good reflection of many of the different points of view that are out in the general public. It's good to hear people's opinions and get info you might have missed. Glad to have everyone that is here, here.
Sorry if I was a bit course with my replies earlier. I do like Bernie, probably was my third choice, but fact is I would have voted for any of the candidates, even Marianne Williamson over Trump. LOL.
I hope we can have a life left after Trump.
He is, and will continue to burn the world down to avoid any consequences of his actions. He knows as soon as his presidency is over, he'll be arrested. I'm sure the IC will have a long memory of all the shit he's put that community through
He is, and will continue to burn the world down to avoid any consequences of his actions. He knows as soon as his presidency is over, he'll be arrested. I'm sure the IC will have a long memory of all the shit he's put that community through
I've to 2 bucks. I'm trying to decide whether or buy a Diet Coke or a BARREL OF OIL.
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Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
Because of the law? What is this “you know, from where I sit in this other country, I think that Americans really need to think about ...” article asking people to do? Lay down in traffic? Self-immolate? Is this writer unaware of the 2018 midterms?
If you ask supporters of Trump, they believe no president ever has been subjected to so much resistance and has never been given a chance and reporters are just so rude to him — basically the opposite of what that silly article is suggesting.
If you ask supporters of Trump, they believe no president ever has been subjected to so much resistance and has never been given a chance and reporters are just so rude to him — basically the opposite of what that silly article is suggesting.
crude oil has gone negative
I think that people around the world have protested loudly and proudly while having a hell of a lot more to both risk and lose. Not referring to COVID (since protesting now is idiotic), but generally, there has been basically nothing of the sort in the US.
winning
OP
OP
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
I wish this meant they’d pay me to own stocks
^
Obviously that's bad for oil (everywhere) but probably not that big of a deal since future contracts for December are trading at around $33, meaning this is more of an issue of storage capacity (i.e. everyone is full since economic activity is close to zero).
Obviously that's bad for oil (everywhere) but probably not that big of a deal since future contracts for December are trading at around $33, meaning this is more of an issue of storage capacity (i.e. everyone is full since economic activity is close to zero).
Let's grab a couple of water jugs and head down to the refinery.
The jugs, of course, will cost more than the oil
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
What is it you would like to see?
And what do you mean “nothing of the sort”? It’s all so sweeping and general and can be so easily rebutted (January 21, 2017; the 2018 midterms; Black Lives Matter) that it’s generally meaningless.
You have a tendency to get very defensive about this.
The EVP I report to is American - he sent me a photo of armed Americans protesting in Texas with signs such as "Jesus is my vaccine", saying "this is the real America, it's not the coastal elites like me." So there is a variety of opinions.
What I mean is that Americans since the 60s/70s era ending with the Vietnam War have not had a meaningful culture of protest. There have been bursts - for example around the time of the start of the Iraq War, Occupy Wall Street was another short-lived one and then a bit around the Trump inauguration. But compare that to what you see elsewhere and it just generally looks like Americans are far more complacent. My theory has always been that because you have access to cheap stuff in stores like Walmart, even the lower classes can have a 60 inch TV and people generally aren't going hungry so it's kind of an opioid really.
Trump is deranged, racist, misogynist and a total failure at every level. There has been nobody on his level in a western democracy in the last several decades who would even come close, at least not on a national level - I'm sure at a local level there have been all sorts of lunatics everywhere. And the US media still wouldn't even want to call him a liar or label something a lie - only some have started selectively lately. It's absolute madness!
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
it's not about being defensive -- it's about the eye-rolling nature of the "let me tell you something about your country." it is a pet peeve of mine. i understand that it's simply part of being part of the biggest, noisiest country. everyone has an opinion, often about things they aren't terribly informed about, and that's fine. it's part of the territory. i let it slide, sometimes gently correct people, but mostly nod and basically tell them i agree with the big picture (I do) but do my best to round things out and explain things culturally. i don't walk around the globe shouting "let me tell you something about your country and what you need to do differently," precisely because of this.
there is plenty of protest in the US. i've lived in DC (and NYC) for the past 15 years. i've protested with 100s of 1000s of people against the Iraq War, for abortion rights, for marriage equality, etc. and that's just me. on the other side, the "March for Life" draws colossal crowds.
you are correct, insofar as the US isn't France, where strikes are scheduled and a part of the culture. but everything else is sweeping and vague. "elsewhere"? when it's USA vs the world, it's very easy to cherry pick a point of comparison (say, France) to indicate something lacking. as you say "it just generally looks like" -- because these comparisons are impossible to make in any sort of meaningful way, and so you find an available cultural hook (cheap shit at Wal-Mart) to hang your observation on. you're also talking about a country that is no stranger to political assassinations and numerous urban riots.
i understand the tendency to want to vent because it's frustrating, i'm frustrated too! but a "culture of protest" critique might be better informed by geography. if you live in France, you know where to go -- Paris. in the UK, London. the US is vast, and has a vast population. a city can't be meaningfully shut down in a way that would have a national impact in the way that you can in smaller countries where the national capital holds not just a significant % of the total population, but where everyone feels a sense of ownership in what happens in the capital. also, Americans are fucking busy. most Americans view their vote as their protest because it's the tool that we have that unifies 330m people across a vast continent with many disperse centers of political and cultural power. it's more apt to compare the US to the EU, or to Brazil or India or other huge, chaotic places.
yes, Trump is awful. he is unprecedented in the US. he's also not terribly popular and got clobbered in 2018 and is polling 7 points behind Joe Biden's corpse.
there is plenty of protest in the US. i've lived in DC (and NYC) for the past 15 years. i've protested with 100s of 1000s of people against the Iraq War, for abortion rights, for marriage equality, etc. and that's just me. on the other side, the "March for Life" draws colossal crowds.
you are correct, insofar as the US isn't France, where strikes are scheduled and a part of the culture. but everything else is sweeping and vague. "elsewhere"? when it's USA vs the world, it's very easy to cherry pick a point of comparison (say, France) to indicate something lacking. as you say "it just generally looks like" -- because these comparisons are impossible to make in any sort of meaningful way, and so you find an available cultural hook (cheap shit at Wal-Mart) to hang your observation on. you're also talking about a country that is no stranger to political assassinations and numerous urban riots.
i understand the tendency to want to vent because it's frustrating, i'm frustrated too! but a "culture of protest" critique might be better informed by geography. if you live in France, you know where to go -- Paris. in the UK, London. the US is vast, and has a vast population. a city can't be meaningfully shut down in a way that would have a national impact in the way that you can in smaller countries where the national capital holds not just a significant % of the total population, but where everyone feels a sense of ownership in what happens in the capital. also, Americans are fucking busy. most Americans view their vote as their protest because it's the tool that we have that unifies 330m people across a vast continent with many disperse centers of political and cultural power. it's more apt to compare the US to the EU, or to Brazil or India or other huge, chaotic places.
yes, Trump is awful. he is unprecedented in the US. he's also not terribly popular and got clobbered in 2018 and is polling 7 points behind Joe Biden's corpse.
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Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
At negative 37 bucks and change a barrel, I just ordered 100,000 barrels. Hoping the 3.7Mil cash shows up before the erl.
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
I honestly have asked the same question about why there hasn't been more significant pushback in some respects against Trump among most Americans in this country in recent years. Yes, we've seen some protests here and there, but it does feel rather muted in some ways.
I think the big answer to that, though, is that this administration has thrown SO MUCH insanity out there during its run, to where it's just become so freaking exhausting to try and keep up with whatever latest outrageous, awful thing he's done that day, because he can do, like, fifty of them in one day. And then the fact that it seems like no matter what efforts people do try and take to hold him accountable, if not take him down altogether, none of it ever seem to stick to him. That whole "Teflon" thing. And he's got a ridiculously powerful GOP machine who's shielding him, too, and has scary control of things. So after a while people start to feel discouraged and wonder if anything they do will even work anymore, because it feels like no matter what we try and do, he refuses to GO AWAY.
Obviously I don't think just throwing up our hands is the way to go, either, but I do think that's a large part of the answer to that question.
This. Hell, if we get Democratic control of both houses of Congress, we could take another stab at impeachment (lord knows we could find plenty in this pandemic crisis to go after him for) and finally get rid of Trump altogether.
Same. I think that's what people need to remember about Biden-even if you don't like him specifically, if he surrounds himself with great people, and we do get some more progressive people in Congress and his cabinet and whatnot, that'll make it a lot easier to get him on board with various things.
I think the big answer to that, though, is that this administration has thrown SO MUCH insanity out there during its run, to where it's just become so freaking exhausting to try and keep up with whatever latest outrageous, awful thing he's done that day, because he can do, like, fifty of them in one day. And then the fact that it seems like no matter what efforts people do try and take to hold him accountable, if not take him down altogether, none of it ever seem to stick to him. That whole "Teflon" thing. And he's got a ridiculously powerful GOP machine who's shielding him, too, and has scary control of things. So after a while people start to feel discouraged and wonder if anything they do will even work anymore, because it feels like no matter what we try and do, he refuses to GO AWAY.
Obviously I don't think just throwing up our hands is the way to go, either, but I do think that's a large part of the answer to that question.
This. Hell, if we get Democratic control of both houses of Congress, we could take another stab at impeachment (lord knows we could find plenty in this pandemic crisis to go after him for) and finally get rid of Trump altogether.
Same. I think that's what people need to remember about Biden-even if you don't like him specifically, if he surrounds himself with great people, and we do get some more progressive people in Congress and his cabinet and whatnot, that'll make it a lot easier to get him on board with various things.
Kim Jong Un possibly near death, it would appear. Which ya know has got to have him extra pissed with the Rodman Last Dance episode due Sunday.
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Talk about everything Trump touches dies amirite??
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
it'll be interesting to see what happens if he dies in terms of the succession - he's confirmed (by dennis rodman lol) to have one daughter but she's only 7 years old. there's speculation that he may have had more children since then but obviously they'd all be very young too.
the "ten principles" (basically the constitution) of north korea was modified in 2013 to add a clause that the leadership must pass down through the "baekdu bloodline" which means the kim dynasty but it isn't clear if that means only his children can inherit, or any relative.
if it's the second case i'm betting his sister steps in (though i don't know if/how her being female changes anything). if it's the former than i guess there's a regency for one of kim's children? not sure how well that would fly in a military dictatorship.
anyways people are probably over-speculating as usual when it comes to NK. there was chatter that he'd had a stroke in 2014 when he disappeared for a little while but it turned out he just had an operation on his ankle. i think the most likely scenario is that he recovers but not fully, and the sister (kim yo-jong) takes over more of the day-to-day operations.
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
JerryDunk
Lost post to you twice - let's try again...
This is what you said (quoting, and paraphrasing) in previous thread and why I objected in this thread 4/15 post #58.
"they [Dems] want you to let them get away with class solidarity because they'll show you a bone" (and bring up the Repubs as a threat).
"they'll line their pockets but say nice things about minority groups, and women." .
"they are talking about class solidarity across parties" "they're not completely the same" "the Democrats are anti-labor"
Lost post to you twice - let's try again...
This is what you said (quoting, and paraphrasing) in previous thread and why I objected in this thread 4/15 post #58.
"they [Dems] want you to let them get away with class solidarity because they'll show you a bone" (and bring up the Repubs as a threat).
"they'll line their pockets but say nice things about minority groups, and women." .
"they are talking about class solidarity across parties" "they're not completely the same" "the Democrats are anti-labor"
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dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
All immigration?! If he said it over weekend, (went lighter on news listening) I might have missed it. Didn't hear anything today, either ( back to more news).
urrite
btw your long post was very open, and moving. Glad you got things going better for yourself.
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
moonlit
For me it's somewhat like partly white-noise background - not really 'hearing' it in the front of my mind unless maybe certain triggers (?) - but yeah, white guys talking about whether to vote or not, especially when the issue of property owning was changed waaay before our lifetimes. So glad you have pointed that out!
While we women, and black people had to fight long, and longer! Now with voter suppression 3.0 ongoing.
.
In fact one of the later rallys for Bill Clinton in NYC was preceded by a march comemorating the 75th Anniversary of women winning the right to vote.
For me it's somewhat like partly white-noise background - not really 'hearing' it in the front of my mind unless maybe certain triggers (?) - but yeah, white guys talking about whether to vote or not, especially when the issue of property owning was changed waaay before our lifetimes. So glad you have pointed that out!
While we women, and black people had to fight long, and longer! Now with voter suppression 3.0 ongoing.
.In fact one of the later rallys for Bill Clinton in NYC was preceded by a march comemorating the 75th Anniversary of women winning the right to vote.
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