US Politics XXII: Idk About You, But This Is Thread 22

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The entire election is going to be about China. Trump's polls show the majority of Americans blame China for the virus (and I would guess not just his polls). That's why yesterday Trump used the so called briefing as the beginning of linking Biden to China.

He said if Sleepy Joe wins, China will own the US. And he also rudely interrupted Dr. Birx several times to say "does anyone believe those numbers" re cases in China.

Putting all the focus and blame on China will divert the attention from mistakes made by the Trump administration. That's the plan.
 
Weird that Asian people are saying it's a racist ad, and everyone in here says it's not. Guess I was wrong!

An Asian individual took offense, which is unfortunate because it isn't a racist ad whatsoever. And because of how our society works, other Asian people saw her tweet and took offense.

So basically, it's unfortunate that anyone would take offense to the ad, both because you hate to see anyone feel prejudice and because the ad wasn't even racist. Basically a lot of emotions wasted on a perfectly fine ad that should invoke emotion against Trump.
 
Well I just watched the ad for the first time. Two main thoughts:

1) it’s not racist but it is classically irresponsible negative political ads (that are notoriously effective). It scapegoats China for sure, and calls out a lot of things Trump did do wrong, but also kinda just attacks him for things that he didn’t do wrong (like I’m calling BS, 40,000 travelers from China would’ve been let in under Biden too). Lots of misinformation in that ad. Lots of misdirection. At the expense of China.

2) what dumbass on the Biden team thought ending THAT ad with “all the negative adds in the world can’t change the truth” was wise? Seriously lol
 
Well I just watched the ad for the first time. Two main thoughts:

1) it’s not racist but it is classically irresponsible negative political ads (that are notoriously effective). It scapegoats China for sure, and calls out a lot of things Trump did do wrong, but also kinda just attacks him for things that he didn’t do wrong (like I’m calling BS, 40,000 travelers from China would’ve been let in under Biden too). Lots of misinformation in that ad. Lots of misdirection. At the expense of China.

2) what dumbass on the Biden team thought ending THAT ad with “all the negative adds in the world can’t change the truth” was wise? Seriously lol

Yeah I cringed a bit at #2 as well. Like dude this is also a negative ad. Hopefully future ads will be more crisp and concise.
 
I wish the ad had added the word “government” after “Chinese.”

And that’s about it. It’s an effective piece of political advertising.

But, you guys, I think the point is that the real racists are the democrats. Time to get off the plantation.
 
I wish the ad had added the word “government” after “Chinese.”

And that’s about it. It’s an effective piece of political advertising.

But, you guys, I think the point is that the real racists are the democrats. Time to get off the plantation.

i agree with the first two lines of this. it's rightfully open season on criticism of the chinese governnment right now, but it needs to be made absolutely clear that's who the target is, and not just "the chinese".

the third part sounds like you're trying to put jerry and vlad's interpretations in the same bucket as gzusfrk's blatant and enthusiastic racism which is totally out of line.
 
We need to guard against the “they’re all the same” kind of thinking, which happens on both sides and is what allowed certain people to justify voting for Donald Trump. Not certain people in here, but in general — I think it’s important to resist that idea.
 
Fun seeing the Bernie and Trump supporters combine forces and convulse in horror at this incredibly racist ad!

And not really seeing the difference between saying Chinese and Chinese government. While the ad says, Trump rolled over for the Chinese, It's showing a picture of him with Xi and then the next sentence is about him praising Xi. There is no doubt that it is talking about the government and its actions and praise from Trump.
Was Trump ever out praising the Chinese people? No.

If this was a TV ad in Canada for Prime Minister and it was talking about how the Justin Trudeau praised Trump and rolled over the Americans, while showing video of him shaking hands with Trump - would that be somehow disparaging the people of America??

Again, No

So if you are twisting yourself in pretzels trying to find some way to hate on Biden. Just know this is how it started with Hillary. So we'll know who to thank again this time around.
 
you're smart enough to know what is really meant by "the chinese" in that ad.

the problem is that there are a lot of people who aren't, and it will influence how they feel about the chinese, or whoever they decide is "the chinese". i dunno about where you live but asian folks in toronto (whether they are actually chinese or not) have sadly been experiencing a dramatic increase in racist incidents lately.

it's important to make that distinction between the people and the government.
 
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at the risk of sounding pretentious, every one of us here is smart enough to very easily understand that distinction.

in a country of 350+ million people there are a non-negligible number of people who are not smart enough and don't get it if it isn't spelled out for them.

that ad would be drastically improved in political terms if it made it clearer for those folks by adding one word - "government".
 
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There is nothing racist about the ad.

And we’re really going to do this again? Pick apart every word, stutter, brain-fart, claim Joe is “too prepared”

People picked apart Al Gore and Hillary for being too smart compared to their opponents. And now we’ve seen complete and utter disaster strike this country both times.

The entire goal of 2020 is to get rid of Trump and stop his(gop) hurtful policies. There will be little to no progress until 2024 or even later. We are stopping the bleeding.
 
Fun seeing the Bernie and Trump supporters combine forces and convulse in horror at this incredibly racist ad!

And not really seeing the difference between saying Chinese and Chinese government. While the ad says, Trump rolled over for the Chinese, It's showing a picture of him with Xi and then the next sentence is about him praising Xi. There is no doubt that it is talking about the government and its actions and praise from Trump.
Was Trump ever out praising the Chinese people? No.

If this was a TV ad in Canada for Prime Minister and it was talking about how the Justin Trudeau praised Trump and rolled over the Americans, while showing video of him shaking hands with Trump - would that be somehow disparaging the people of America??

Again, No

So if you are twisting yourself in pretzels trying to find some way to hate on Biden. Just know this is how it started with Hillary. So we'll know who to thank again this time around.

Which Republicans are saying the ad is racist?

Also, we don't have to try very hard to dislike Biden and think he's an awful, awful choice for President.
 
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How about as a collective group, we accept the following:

1. Biden has won the Democratic Nomination, so there's no need for Bernie vs Biden bickering anymore unless it has to do with policies that Bernie fought for that we'd like to see Biden adopt.

2. Biden isn't the best candidate of all time but he also isn't universally disliked like Hilary Clinton.

3. Even a hamster is a better option than Donald J Trump and we focus on the real enemy here.
 
No comment on 1 and 2, but item #3 has my vote.

Honestly, you could even put any republican with a pulse up against Trump and I would vote for them.
 
Which Republicans are saying the ad is racist?

Also, we don't have to try very hard to dislike Biden and think he's an awful, awful choice for President.




Honestly: why is he “awful, awful”?

He’s a total generic Democrat placeholder who will continue the party and the country’s gradual march leftward. He won’t start stupid wars. More people will get health care. We will love closer towards a public option and eventually to Medicare for All. He will appoint center-left judges. He will Moe towards some version of a Green New Deal.

He will do all the things any center-left Democrat would do while in office, and likely be even more effective because he knows the Senate and because of his appeal to the center and to working class whites in rust belt states.

He isn’t promising the deep structural reform that Warren might, but without a Senate majority, how much of that would actually happen?

Please, justify for me what you mean by “awful, awful.”
 
There's an understandable back and forth about the faults, real or perceived, of various candidates that you would expect in the primaries.

Once you have a presumptive nominee you would certainly hope that the tearing down would no longer come from within the party.

Certainly this doesn't mean that people can't voice concerns, but the continued attempts to tear down the Democratic nominee by those to the left is disappointing, although not entirely unexpected.

But sure - let's continue to take pot shots at the Democratic nominee from within our own walls. Let's create controversies, both real and imagined, that play right into the hands of the opponent. Maybe if just enough doubt is sowed those who so desire can point back and say "look, we told you he was bad" while ignoring their own culpability in the final result.

Or maybe, just maybe, we can all face a little reality and realize just how god damned important it is to push this imperfect vessel over the finish line in November - and save our energy for coming together to energize the base and nominate candidates in purple districts up and down the ballot - whether they match our perfect ideals or not - so that the overall landscape of the country's leadership, both in Congress and on the state and local level, tilts back blue. Because this is the only way any sort of progressive agenda is actually ever going to get done.

Support more progressive candidates in the cities and urban centers that you know will stay blue no matter what in order to push the party as a whole further left; while understanding that a moderate has a better chance in certain statewide elections and purplish or light red districts. Then maybe some good can come out or the giant pile of shit that is the year 2020.
 
Support more progressive candidates in the cities and urban centers that you know will stay blue no matter what in order to push the party as a whole further left; while understanding that a moderate has a better chance in certain statewide elections and purplish or light red districts. Then maybe some good can come out or the giant pile of shit that is the year 2020.

This is the thing. If you can't find it in you to be excited about Biden, that's fine and totally understandable. Given the formidable field that the Democrats had this time, both in terms of talent and diversity, to have HIM emerge is a thousand sorts of disappointing.

So concentrate on downticket voting - the Senate, the Congress and state races which are ultimately in some ways in the aggregate more important anyway. If the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress, Donald Trump would get nothing done.
 
You mean like what you did for months on end with Sanders?

ummmm... no. I never threw away common sense to try and discredit Sanders. Please go ahead and share some if you find any. Sanders supporters? Sure i bitch about them all the time, but again, I wasn't doing any acrobatics to criticize them, they are quite capable of fully showing how they operate (and yes, i'm speaking about a portion of his supporters, obviously not all)

Are you talking about how I doubted he would be able to get M4A passed? How he didn't have a clear path to win the EC? How he speaks in broad, non-specifics and thinks that everything will be done when he creates a revolution of young voters that never show up? How he wouldn't be as good of a candidate for down-ballot races? How he was losing primaries by 20+ points that he had won or come close in last time?
Yep. And none of that is really in contention here.
And I never once disparaged him for his age or mental agility. In fact I repeatedly stated how he was quick with his answers and would do well debating Trump.

So maybe get your facts straight before insulting me for something i didn't do.
 
I was admittedly tough on Bernie when he was still in the race. But in the end, I was willing to support him if he was the nominee because I hate Trump that much.

Big picture, I think both Bernie and Biden have their flaws, but I've always felt that Biden had the better chance at beating Trump.
 
ummmm... no. I never threw away common sense to try and discredit Sanders. Please go ahead and share some if you find any. Sanders supporters? Sure i bitch about them all the time, but again, I wasn't doing any acrobatics to criticize them, they are quite capable of fully showing how they operate (and yes, i'm speaking about a portion of his supporters, obviously not all)

Sure, if you want to speak in tautologies about how you're a common sense guy and therefore any critique you had was common sense, then there's no argument to be had.
 
There's an understandable back and forth about the faults, real or perceived, of various candidates that you would expect in the primaries.

Once you have a presumptive nominee you would certainly hope that the tearing down would no longer come from within the party.

Certainly this doesn't mean that people can't voice concerns, but the continued attempts to tear down the Democratic nominee by those to the left is disappointing, although not entirely unexpected.

But sure - let's continue to take pot shots at the Democratic nominee from within our own walls. Let's create controversies, both real and imagined, that play right into the hands of the opponent. Maybe if just enough doubt is sowed those who so desire can point back and say "look, we told you he was bad" while ignoring their own culpability in the final result.

Or maybe, just maybe, we can all face a little reality and realize just how god damned important it is to push this imperfect vessel over the finish line in November - and save our energy for coming together to energize the base and nominate candidates in purple districts up and down the ballot - whether they match our perfect ideals or not - so that the overall landscape of the country's leadership, both in Congress and on the state and local level, tilts back blue. Because this is the only way any sort of progressive agenda is actually ever going to get done.

Support more progressive candidates in the cities and urban centers that you know will stay blue no matter what in order to push the party as a whole further left; while understanding that a moderate has a better chance in certain statewide elections and purplish or light red districts. Then maybe some good can come out or the giant pile of shit that is the year 2020.

Agreed in every point.
I think I'm just upset at seeing the same bullshit that happened in 2016 (on social media). 20 year olds bitching about how Biden has to "earn their vote". Jesus. I just want people to try to wrap their heads around 4 more years of Trump and the absolute devastation it would bring to any sort of progressive agenda for decades.
I'm not here to trumpet how great Biden is. In fact I've likened him to life support, and have called him a placeholder for a couple months. But a placeholder I believe can beat Trump.

I must say that Bernie impressed me by conceding and seems more into backing the nominee this time. He knows how important it is. I hope that he gets Biden to take on a few more progressive ideas, like he did with college tuition, and we win house and senate seats across the country. Joe could be more than a placeholder if we get a Senate majority. There could be some concrete progress.
 
But sure - let's continue to take pot shots at the Democratic nominee from within our own walls. Let's create controversies, both real and imagined, that play right into the hands of the opponent. Maybe if just enough doubt is sowed those who so desire can point back and say "look, we told you he was bad" while ignoring their own culpability in the final result.


You seem to be suggesting that criticisms of Biden on this minuscule forum have some kind of reach that would be damaging to him. No one on here is waging a Twitter campaign to bust him down or anything like that.
 
Sure, if you want to speak in tautologies about how you're a common sense guy and therefore any critique you had was common sense, then there's no argument to be had.

I asked you to show me some examples. So if I'm wrong and did make wild accusations to denigrate Sanders, show me and I'll own up to it.
If not, then your word games aren't really worth much, you're just trying to defend your original accusation.
 
Sure, if you want to speak in tautologies about how you're a common sense guy and therefore any critique you had was common sense, then there's no argument to be had.

The point though is that now the Biden vs Sanders is done with. Sure, I would agree that womanfish is probably downplaying it a little bit, even if I agreed with the posts. I think we can hopefully move forward though. It's not like I'm saying people shouldn't criticize Biden at all. Hell, I criticized him yesterday. And on the flip side, I think Bernie has been incredible since suspending his campaign, both in the endorsement but in the way he's stayed present in the medial to help support getting the orange enemy. It's all about working together.
 
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