US Politics XXII: Idk About You, But This Is Thread 22

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Gzusfrk said:
And class, once again this is a prime example of a straw man fallacy. When a keyboard warrior has no fact based argument, he may use this childlike retort, which usually has nothing to do with what his intended target may have said.



Usually looking for attention
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You’ve got the self unawareness thing down. You’re on your way to being the next great grifter, nicely done [emoji106]
 
Gzusfrk said:
And class, once again this is a prime example of a straw man fallacy. When a keyboard warrior has no fact based argument, he may use this childlike retort, which usually has nothing to do with what his intended target may have said.



Usually looking for attention
Click to expand...
10virus-us-briefing-hartisland-mediumSquareAt3X.jpg
 
Gzus wants to go to the grocery store
But they won't let him in
Won't wear a mask so he's left outside
Yelling with Candace Owens

So he goes back home again
And turns on ONN
Can't believe he can't go to Whole Foods
Stupid Libs, this is just a flu

We're not getting corona, cause
We're just having an Ordinary Spring
Death toll will not get any higher
Cause we're just having an Ordinary Spring

Morgues overflowing with bodies
Happens all the time
This is such an overreaction
Libs do this all the time

Didn't vote for Donald Trump
Just an independent conservative
In spring I do believe
That the heat will just wash this away

We're not getting corona, cause
We're just having an Ordinary Spring
Death toll will not get any higher
Cause we're just having an Ordinary Spring

We're not getting corona, cause
We're just having an Ordinary Spring
Death toll will not get any higher
Cause we're just having an Ordinary Spring

Are we dumb enough
To believe this is an Ordinary Spring?
 
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Assuming we survive to a vaccine, that’ll be the next big battle of misinformation.

The vaccine will cause x

Or what’s making the rounds right now is the vaccine that Bill Gates foundation is helping to progress is nothing more than a mind control plant.

Gates is slowly becoming the new Soros (minus the Jewish)
 
Gzusfrk said:
And class, once again this is a prime example of a straw man fallacy. When a keyboard warrior has no fact based argument, he may use this childlike retort, which usually has nothing to do with what his intended target may have said.



Usually looking for attention
Click to expand...



Oh man, this is comedy GOLD.
 
I have seen several people with stutters say that they find it offensive that Biden is using that as a cover for what is clear and obvious mental decline. To dismiss what is plain for you to see as "swift boating" or "Hillary's emails" is frankly absurd. This is not an unsubstantiated smear or birtherism. Biden is showing obvious signs of mental decline, and has been consistently doing so over the last 12-18 months. He made public speeches for four decades that did not sound like this, that were not the result of a stutter. This is something clearly different.
 
anitram said:
Microsoft Teams is actually functioning great for me. Skype is a total disaster. Zoom is ok, but glitchy.
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Yes, by every account I’ve heard so far, Microsoft teams is a much welcomed change from Skype. Dunno what the webex people think, though. Been 5+ years since I’ve regularly used that, but personally I never thought very highly of it.
 
JOE BIDEN'S STUTTER EXPLAINS A LOT ABOUT HOW HE SPEAKS. I SHOULD KNOW—I HAVE ONE TOO | OPINION

BY JACK BREWSTER ON 3/19/20 AT 6:38 AM EDT

Every time I watch Joe Biden speak, I cringe. Fragmented phrases. Trouble starting sentences. Weird ticks. Strange words and abrupt catch phrases. It's not because I'm sad to see one of the country's most prominent political figures in decline. It's because it reminds me, a healthy 23-year-old, of myself.

Joe Biden and I both suffer from a stutter. I was diagnosed with a mild speech impediment at an early age; Biden said last year that he's "worked [his] whole life to overcome a stutter."

While I obviously can not speak to the state of Biden's cognitive abilities as a 77-year-old public figure (his doctor recently described him as "healthy" and "vigorous"), I can shed light on some of the shared experiences of people with a speech impediment.

Nowhere are Biden's "verbal gaffes" and choppy speaking style worse than during a debate. Biden struggles to start sentences, and routinely gets stuck on the "i" when starting a sentence ("I-I-I-I," he'll say.) He has told supporters to go to the wrong campaign website and suggested parents keep the "record player on at night.'' In one instance, he appeared to stutter while talking about someone else's stutter—a child's, in fact—and was ridiculed for doing so by Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the former press secretary for President Trump. (Sanders later apologized.)

I can't think of a worse situation in which to conceal a stutter than during a nationally televised debate. On the occasions when I've spoken before a sizable group of people, I've struggled. It gets more difficult when I'm nervous or trying to impress someone in that group. And it becomes downright impossible to put together a coherent sentence when people are talking over one another because, as fellow stutterers will tell you, the hardest part is almost always starting a sentence.

When you're keyed up, as Joe Biden no doubt is when he debates, your stutter can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. You're worried you're going to stutter and then because you are worried, you stutter more. In college, I felt this acutely when people would ask me where I'm from and I'd get stuck on a hard "c" consonant... "C-c-c-c-c-onnecticut," I would spit out.

Over time, I would avoid introducing myself to strangers out of fear they would ask that dreaded question. I often psyched myself out, sometimes unable to even start the word, "Connecticut." Now, I typically lie and say I'm from New York, a much easier state name for me to say.

Critics of Biden have contended that the occasional mental lapses that he has displayed on the campaign trail over the last year can not all be explained away by the fact that he has long dealt with a stutter and that his age is clearly a factor. Trump, who rarely misses a chance to mock a political opponent, recently jeered that the people around Biden "are going to put him in a home.''

But those who attack Biden over his slip ups are choosing to overlook that he has verbally stumbled in the past, when he wasn't as old as he is now, and that he once even referred to himself as a "gaffe machine." (One example out of many: In 2012, Biden told a paralyzed man in a wheelchair: "Stand up, Chuck.")

And it is worth keeping in mind that a stutter doesn't just affect your speech. It affects how you think and other elements of how you communicate.

One of the most maddening (and embarrassing) things for a stutterer is being called on—as you might be at a debate—and knowing the answer, but not being able to get it out. You panic and revert to odd phrases and weird references to try and mask your deficiency. You may also focus on the stutter, instead of what you're trying to say, and screw up in the process. It's a never-ending cycle.

When I was working for Time magazine as an intern political reporter in 2017, I was assigned to interview lawmakers in the basement of Capitol Hill as they walked—sometimes very quickly—to and from their offices. It was a stutterer's nightmare.

When I once tried to ask Sen. Tim Kaine of Virginia a question about Trump's ban on transgender people serving in the military, I mistakenly said to him, "What do you think of Trump's transgender travel ban?" (I was of course conflating two different bans. Trump has not banned transgender people from traveling.) Sure, that gaffe could have happened to anyone. But I remember being stuck on the "w" in "what" when I asked Kaine the question. I panicked. I blurted whatever could come out of my mouth as fast as possible.

Finally, Joe Biden rivals will argue that the former vice president sounds like a buffoon when he speaks, outside of his stutter. He speaks in fragments and uses odd sentence structure. That's not presidential-like!

Stutterers will tell you that one of the best methods for coping with their impediment is a strategy called "circumlocution." Circumlocution does for stutterers what the mobile app Wayz does for travelers. While speaking, the stutterer's mind is constantly searching for verbal paths around certain problem letters and sounds. For me, one of the letters is "w." That's why when I ask a question, I'll sometimes sound like Yoda from Star Wars: "Going, where are you?" Biden may well be employing a similar technique, consciously or not.

In the end, stuttering may not be the source of all of Biden's verbal mishaps, but it can explain some. And while it might be a deficiency on the debate stage, I don't believe an impediment makes you unfit to lead.

After all, the much admired General Electric CEO Jack Welch, who recently passed away, had a stutter. Winston Churchill had one as well. So, too, did King George VI, the subject of the movie, "The King's Speech."

The lives led by all three men point to the fact that, ironically, stuttering can be a source of strength. In my case, it has helped me to more effectively communicate in other ways, such as writing.

Biden, in a feature in The Atlantic published last year, told writer John Hendrickson that stuttering was "the best thing that ever happened to him."

"Stuttering gave me an insight I don't think I ever would have had into other people's pain," he added. Henderson had reason to agree with him. The writer admits that he, too, has suffered a lifelong stutter. (Hesitant to speak, we fellow sufferers rush to support each other.)

At one point, Biden leans into his questioner with a lesson about looking past individual infirmities to search for the "character" and "intellect" in a person.

"Because that's what I tell stutterers," Biden says. "You can't let it define you."

It's a lesson he has lived. "It can't define who you are."
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There's also this one.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/joe-biden-stutter-profile/602401/


The idea that Biden is hiding behind his stuttering, or misrepresenting it t as an excuse is utterly ridiculous. He barely mentions it. It only became a topic after Sarah Sanders thought he was making fun of a stutterer a few months back. If anything he's downplayed it and denied it's a reason for his gaffes.

This isn't the Hillary's emails issue. That's Burisma. And I can guarantee there will be at least two to three more bullshit stories that are thrown out there before November.

This is "Hillary doesn't have the stamina" and "oh my god Hillary almost died at the 9/11 memorial".
 
Trump releases plan to lift restrictions, placing the effort on the states.

Today he tells his followers to break social distancing to put more stress on systems to fail (i.e blame them)
 
oh come on. there's obviously something going on with biden other than just a stuttering issue. nobody here is diagnosing him with dementia but he is very clearly losing a step as he gets older. watch him speak 10 years ago and then today. if it was just a stuttering issue that he's been dealing with for decades then there shouldn't be much difference, but there is. everybody gets old and for the vast majority of us at some point our brain slows down. it's a fact of life for elderly people and he appears to be experiencing it in some form. pointing it out is not automatically an insult, nor is it just fake news or shit that the bernie bros invented out of thin air to smear poor joe.

it's also completely different than trumpists going wild about clinton sitting in the hot sun at an outdoor event in early september and fainting from the heat one time - this is an ongoing thing with biden, a pattern over time, that people are basing this on. so that's not a good comparison.

people here were losing their shit about bernie sanders' cardiac health back in february when it looked like he had a chance of being the nominee and speculating whether he'd even live until november was totally fair game back then. now you're sticking your fingers in your ears and acting like we're just "doing trump's work for him" (or we're up to something nefarious) by talking about biden's health now. it's frustrating.
 
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DaveC said:
oh come on. there's obviously something going on with biden other than just a stuttering issue. nobody here is diagnosing him with dementia but he is very clearly losing a step as he gets older. watch him speak 10 years ago and then today.
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I'm also baffled by the pushback here.

I had concerns about his mental state before he even declared himself a candidate. I'm sorry but it's plainly obvious and also tied to his age. The man is nearly 80 and all of a sudden it's off side to point out that he, like MOST PEOPLE of that age is experiencing an observable decline of cognitive function?

Trump has dementia, that much is obvious so if his people want to talk about mental states, by all means, let's go.
 
DaveC said:
people here were losing their shit about bernie sanders' cardiac health back in february when it looked like he had a chance of being the nominee and speculating whether he'd even live until november was totally fair game back then. now you're sticking your fingers in your ears and acting like we're just "doing trump's work for him" (or we're up to something nefarious) by talking about biden's health now. it's frustrating.
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This whole thing where "If the right is saying it, it's automatically completely false" is a dangerous path to go down. To tell a convincing lie, you need to base some of it in truth.
 
anitram said:
Trump has dementia, that much is obvious so if his people want to talk about mental states, by all means, let's go.
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For sure! He's clearly declined, even from where he was during the GOP debates in 2016. You can definitely tell when his amphetamines aren't kicking right.
 
anitram said:
I'm also baffled by the pushback here.



I had concerns about his mental state before he even declared himself a candidate. I'm sorry but it's plainly obvious and also tied to his age. The man is nearly 80 and all of a sudden it's off side to point out that he, like MOST PEOPLE of that age is experiencing an observable decline of cognitive function?



Trump has dementia, that much is obvious so if his people want to talk about mental states, by all means, let's go.
Click to expand...




Yes, of course he’s experiencing *some* cognitive decline. As you said, most people of that age do.

This is quite something different than being like OH NO! THERE GOES DIMENTIA JOE! TIME FOR BED GRAMPS! everytime he tells too long a story. The critical issue is whether or not this will impede his performance as a candidate and then as a president. The answer is “probably a little,” but given our other alternatives, including the 80-year old who had a heart attack, this is another case of least worse option. I think it’s clear who’s much more likely to die sooner.

It’s not helpful, and it’s only a real concern insofar as it becomes part of the narrative about the candidate. Legit my only concern is how it affects him as a candidate. As a president, he’ll likely have a good cabinet and VP and not walk around like he alone can do things because his authority is absolute.
 
It's also perfectly possible for two things to exist at the same time. Issues in speech and coherence can simultaneously be impacted by a speech impediment and by an age-related loss in cognitive ability.

Biden could get a neurological assessment to dispel (or confirm) concerns about his health. But until then, people will watch very closely any future speech or TV appearance (not that everyone will be convinced were a medical report published, but it might quell some of the debate).

Of course anyone can give him the benefit of the doubt, but it's certainly not a crazy idea to say it's very much possible for him to have lost some cognitive abilities or to suffer from some form of dementia.

The thing is, he's the candidate now, and there's a complete whacko in the White House, and in a solid two-party system you can only choose cholera over pest.

BEAL said:
Assuming we survive to a vaccine, that’ll be the next big battle of misinformation.

The vaccine will cause x

Or what’s making the rounds right now is the vaccine that Bill Gates foundation is helping to progress is nothing more than a mind control plant.

Gates is slowly becoming the new Soros (minus the Jewish)
Click to expand...

There've already been tweets incorporating popular anti-semitic tropes such as references to circumcission or the use of the term globalist.
 
Irvine511 said:
Yes, of course he’s experiencing *some* cognitive decline. As you said, most people of that age do.

This is quite something different than being like OH NO! THERE GOES DIMENTIA JOE! TIME FOR BED GRAMPS! everytime he tells too long a story.

It’s not helpful, and it’s only a real concern insofar as it becomes part of the narrative about the candidate. Legit my only concern is how it affects him as a candidate. As a president, he’ll likely have a good cabinet and VP and not walk around like he alone can do things because his authority is absolute.
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This. x1000.

I'm on record as wanting an age limit for the presidency. But this is what we've got.

As Irvine said - there's a big difference between saying that a 70+ year old is not as quick as he was 15 years ago (no shit) vs. ehermagaad he so has dementia he doesn't know where he is he kissed his sister we're all going to die.
 
The sister/wife thing I think was a genuine faux pas because they had switched where they were standing behind him. It didn't particularly bother me. And I'm well aware that there are people with bad motives who want to perpetuate this idea. But his inability to articulate nearly anything in some of these interviews is alarming. It's especially stark considering there were people of similar age like Sanders directly opposite him, able to clearly make the same points they were able to make clearly a decade ago.

I said it before, but there were numerous times in those debates where it was unclear if he was genuinely having a problem remembering things or if he was just lying about his record. Especially in that one-on-one with Sanders.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
As Irvine said - there's a big difference between saying that a 70+ year old is not as quick as he was 15 years ago (no shit) vs. ehermagaad he so has dementia he doesn't know where he is he kissed his sister we're all going to die.
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not to drag this out, but you were the first person to mention dementia in this thread. LN7's post didn't mention it and i didn't see the meme as implying dementia, just a forgetful old man.

can we please just agree to avoid accusing each other of nasty things like "swiftboating our own people" for posting an obvious joke?

we all know each other reasonably well (for an internet forum) and i'm certain that none of the regulars here are posting maliciously in bad faith like that (with maybe one or two exceptions and we all know who i'm referring to). i do get that there are bad actors on the right who are doing everything they can to make the "he's not mentally fit" label stick and i get the impulse to push back against that, but nobody is doing that here as far as i can tell.

that's the last i'll say about this.
 
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Biden is past his prime. The democrats fell into the same trap is the Republicans did with Dole in 96- it was his turn- Same with Hillary in 2016 and Kerry. The only time they bucked that was with Obama and Billy and guess what they both won. Once again not a sanders fan- but I think he had a better chance than Biden- You could draw real differences and have real debates- I don't know about you but I am not looking forward to the Presidential debates at all- I fact as my daughter would say they are cringe-worthy. I think the VP debates will be much better. (you could say even more important based on the age of the presidential candidates)
 
I get the need to avoid cutting down Biden unnecessarily right now. But I hope we can at least admit it's a bit disappointing to have the nominee in such a historically important election be based on the off chance he wins Pennsylvania and a prayer he makes a wise VP choice.
 
Magnus Maximus said:
Biden is past his prime. The democrats fell into the same trap is the Republicans did with Dole in 96- it was his turn- Same with Hillary in 2016 and Kerry. The only time they bucked that was with Obama and Billy and guess what they both won. Once again not a sanders fan- but I think he had a better chance than Biden- You could draw real differences and have real debates- I don't know about you but I am not looking forward to the Presidential debates at all- I fact as my daughter would say they are cringe-worthy. I think the VP debates will be much better. (you could say even more important based on the age of the presidential candidates)
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Sanders is older than the "past his prime" Biden.
 
iron yuppie said:
I get the need to avoid cutting down Biden unnecessarily right now. But I hope we can at least admit it's a bit disappointing to have the nominee in such a historically important election be based on the off chance he wins Pennsylvania and a prayer he makes a wise VP choice.
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Of course it's disappointing. It's disappointing that the two top candidates were old white guys. I wish both of them would have not run.

But at some point we should probably stop doing Trump's job for him.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
Sanders is older than the "past his prime" Biden.
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Age is just a number, it's not the age but the mileage. Biden is just worn out and Bernie has more vigor

In the end it's not about numerical age, but physiological age- Sanders has it a lot more together than Joe.

We all know 50 year olds that act like 90 years olds and 80 year olds healthier than 50 year olds.
 
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