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Old 05-07-2020, 11:07 AM   #501
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this looks like fun, maybe after work i'll build a strawman to feel morally superior over too.


This is where the conversation is heading. An argument was recently put forward that, since Biden won’t give us what we need on global warming, we might as well vote for Trump since there will be no material difference between the two candidates. Logically, we should destroy moderate Democrats first, because they are the ones really standing in the way of the Left Democrats.

This has been the MO of certain media since at least 2016. They wind up siding with Putin in order to spite Hillary Clinton.

And the beat goes on.
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Old 05-07-2020, 11:26 AM   #502
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This is where the conversation is heading. An argument was recently put forward that, since Biden won’t give us what we need on global warming, we might as well vote for Trump since there will be no material difference between the two candidates. Logically, we should destroy moderate Democrats first, because they are the ones really standing in the way of the Left Democrats.

This has been the MO of certain media since at least 2016. They wind up siding with Putin in order to spite Hillary Clinton.

And the beat goes on.
"an argument was recently put forward" by who? i highly doubt you read anything like that from a reputable media source.

idiotic accelerationists who want to burn the world down to make it better have been around on both sides in various forms since at least the french revolution.

they are nothing more than a small (but loud on twitter, sure) fringe that speaks for "The Left" as much as nazbols and sovereign citizens speak for "The Right".

nobody except violent extremists, adolescents, and sociopaths holds accelerationist positions like you've described and it's extremely disingenuous to assert so boldly that "The Left" as a whole is uniformly moving towards this stance.
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Old 05-07-2020, 11:52 AM   #503
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That’s fair. It’s not all The Left. But there are voices in here who are the accelerationists you describe.
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Old 05-07-2020, 12:14 PM   #504
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That’s fair. It’s not all The Left. But there are voices in here who are the accelerationists you describe.
seriously? you actually think there are leftists on this forum who are so morally and ethically bankrupt that they actively wish for suffering and death in order to pave the way for "the real people’s revolution"?
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Old 05-07-2020, 01:12 PM   #505
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Yes.
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Old 05-07-2020, 01:27 PM   #506
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No one active on this forum has ever said or even implied anything remotely close to what Dave described above.
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Old 05-07-2020, 01:41 PM   #507
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Call it the Susan Sarandon standard — hoping for moderate Democrats to lose, so they’ll wise up and go further Left next time. Then, punish the moderate Democrats however you can, root for them to lose elections, attack any attempt to address outside malfeasance in the election (Russia) so that you can continue to lay blame for 2016 solely at the feet of Hillary Clinton. And repeat. The result is the election of more Trump, which results in suffering and death. But this is worth it, Ms Sarandon said, for the future.

This is not remotely controversial as a thing. This was around in 2016. It is around today.
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Old 05-07-2020, 01:54 PM   #508
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ah my bad, i didn't realize you were speaking about well-known leftist accelerationist susan sarandon, whose opinions broadly reflect those of The Left.
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Old 05-07-2020, 02:34 PM   #509
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No one active on this forum has ever said or even implied anything remotely close to what Dave described above.
Directly? Of course not.

However...

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The result is the election of more Trump, which results in suffering and death.
This is real.

My dad's a Trump supporter. It bothers me greatly. Eats away at me sometimes. I've never known my dad to be someone who hates; someone who is racist. I still don't. Yet I have to come to counter that with his support of an evil, hate filled, racist regime.

By his supporting Trump, he is supporting all of these things.

He can deny it, sure. But his denial rings hollow. He's been brainwashed. He's so far down the Fox News /conservative talk radio rabbit hole that he can't even see the results of his actions. The slow response to the pandemic, or the firing of the pandemic response team? Totally Obama's fault.

I still love my dad. I just refuse to discuss anything even remotely political with him because he's gone. He refuses to see Trump's actions for what they are.

So do I think there are any members here who are actively hoping that people die? That we descend further into the chaos and decay? Of course not.

Do I believe there are those who want to see Biden lose specifically in hopes of bringing Democrats further left? Are there those here who support and amplify those who have that as their primary objective? Yea, I do.

And by supporting that, you're supporting the end result - which is more Trump. You can deny it, but you are.

This doesn't necessarily mean you're a bad person. But you're gone. You're so far down a road that you can't see what the end result of your actions and the actions of those you support and amplify are.

So when the collective of rose emoji Twitter continues to jab and knock down the Democratic candidate at every turn, just like in 2016... sowing doubt in the candidate and pushing the oh so small number of undecideds to Trump? Totally the establishment democrat's fault for not listening to them.
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Old 05-07-2020, 02:44 PM   #510
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So when the collective of rose emoji Twitter continues to jab and knock down the Democratic candidate at every turn, just like in 2016... sowing doubt in the candidate and pushing the oh so small number of undecideds to Trump? Totally the establishment democrat's fault for not listening to them.
it's almost as if the party establishment being openly hostile to one particular wing of the party over and over again might eventually inspire some anger and resentment among those people, or something.

i'm not saying they're right to be doing what they're doing, but it's not like the backlash is unjustifiable and unprovoked. the party establishment holds its own share of the blame for the current state of affairs. i'm pretty sure every single one of us has written a "they're really bad at this" post about the DNC at some point in the last four years.
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Old 05-07-2020, 02:56 PM   #511
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it's almost as if the party establishment being openly hostile to one particular wing of the party over and over again might eventually inspire some anger and resentment among those people, or something.

i'm not saying they're right to be doing what they're doing, but it's not like the backlash is unjustifiable and unprovoked. the party establishment holds its own share of the blame for the current state of affairs.
I won't deny there's truth to what you're saying, historically. I didn't want Biden, I am no fan of Pelosi or Schumer, and I think the Democrats butchered their handling of the Trump administration.

But some things are bigger and more important. We can fight over the details on November 4th.
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Old 05-07-2020, 02:57 PM   #512
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Case in point... the Justice Department just dropped charges against Michael Flynn, a man who pled guilty. Twice.
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Old 05-07-2020, 02:58 PM   #513
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These accusations of members here looking to undermine establishment Democrats are pretty clearly aimed at Jerry. And if so the implication that he is indifferent to people's suffering or would accept it in order to make some kind of political point is incredibly unfair. He's been extremely vocal about the need for national healthcare so that people's futures stop being destroyed by insurance companies and the impoverished stop bearing a disproportionate amount of the covid pain. You can disagree with his politics but don't insinuate he's some kind of heartless Bernie bot.
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Old 05-07-2020, 03:01 PM   #514
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I didn't mention anyone by name, and no, that's not what I wrote.
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Old 05-07-2020, 03:02 PM   #515
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...?ocid=msedgdhp
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Old 05-07-2020, 03:08 PM   #516
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I didn't mention anyone by name, and no, that's not what I wrote.

And you're not the only one talking about it.
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Old 05-07-2020, 03:18 PM   #517
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Steve Mnuchin has got to be one of the least likeable members of this heinous administration. I understand that he has a lot of competition in that respect but there is something just downright creepy about him and a total lack of social propriety.

I am really surprised that he was so successful in the financial sector. Yes, those guys are generally all puffed up assholes, but they are also for the most part charismatic.
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Old 05-07-2020, 03:29 PM   #518
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US Politics XXII: Idk About You, But This Is Thread 22

Actually, never mind. Im not being productive or helpful. I’m withdrawing this post.
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Old 05-07-2020, 03:29 PM   #519
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Steve Mnuchin has got to be one of the least likeable members of this heinous administration. I understand that he has a lot of competition in that respect but there is something just downright creepy about him and a total lack of social propriety.

I am really surprised that he was so successful in the financial sector. Yes, those guys are generally all puffed up assholes, but they are also for the most part charismatic.
Imagine you're a pair of attractive single young women at a bar, and the bartender puts down 2 apple martinis and says "ladies these are complements of the 2 gentlemen at the end of the bar and they'd like to possibly say hello" and you turn and see Mnuchin and Jared Kushner at the end of the bar making goo goo eyes your way.
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Old 05-07-2020, 04:05 PM   #520
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Imagine you're a pair of attractive single young women at a bar, and the bartender puts down 2 apple martinis and says "ladies these are complements of the 2 gentlemen at the end of the bar and they'd like to possibly say hello" and you turn and see Mnuchin and Jared Kushner at the end of the bar making goo goo eyes your way.
I was just starting to make dinner here. :vomit:
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