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Old 05-04-2020, 06:29 PM   #461
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I would love it if Lincoln rose from the dead just to kick his whiny ass all over that memorial. For somebody who's all about fighting the "sensitive snowflakes" and is a supposed "bold leader", he sure loves to throw himself quite the pity party.


We need someone with mad CGI Skillz!
At least to bring that "to life".
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Old 05-04-2020, 06:31 PM   #462
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Old 05-04-2020, 07:17 PM   #463
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Forgive the bad word. I died.
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Old 05-04-2020, 07:51 PM   #464
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https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/stat...005408257?s=19
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Old 05-05-2020, 12:55 AM   #465
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Forgive the bad word. I died.
Forgiven, that was funny.
.
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Good, serious, sad stuff there. That lincolnproject vid...
Also a possible word play - "There's mourning in America" with Reagan's "It's morning in America".
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Old 05-05-2020, 01:03 AM   #466
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So just so we can put some things in perspective.
It seems that because of Biden's past touchy feeliness, we may see more of these political hitjobs. And unsettling to see the number of people willing to lie to try and legitimize the false claim.

The 14 year old whose breasts Biden was said to have complimented, is the niece of Christine O'Donnell, failed Tea Party candidate.

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/statu...81433589039104
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Old 05-05-2020, 01:23 AM   #467
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US Politics XXII: Idk About You, But This Is Thread 22

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I'm sorry if you felt that me saying you having a lack of reading comprehension was condescending. But if its not that, then you are dismissing a huge amount of evidence and using that mind-frame to then twist my words into something that I'm not saying. You are picking out phrases, and then not actually taking in my explanation.



I'm not sure how you don't think it's condescending to call something I wrote "disgusting" or that me, as a survivor and person that has spent time listening to dozens of other survivors, is someone you can tell has no idea about victims of assault.



So this is your highlighted post of mine:



I'm not buying this line of argument at all. Women didn't have a voice before MeToo? Come on...

...Hell, Trump had wracked up 18 or so accusers by the end of 2016, a year before MeToo had taken off...




Is it not true that Trump had over a dozen accusations in 2016? MeToo came about (in it's current form) in October of 2017.



Reade claims that she submitted a report to the Senate office in 1993. One way her voice could have been heard, if a claim was actually made.



I'm not sure how you find fault in this statement. Isn't this the whole issue right now? Is there actually a report that was filed or not?



She claims the subject of going to the police came up, That was another way her voice could have been heard.





You act as though I'm pulling things out of the air. I'm only stating the options that she claimed to have thought about. As I then explained, the police may or may not have done anything with her claim. And as I've also said, if she decided not to go to the police or the press, then that's ok. It doesn't negate the fact that it was an option, and in no way am I inferring that it would have been effective.



She claims that the subject of going to the press came up, but didn't want to "out of respect" for the Senator in question. (You know, we all have the utmost respect for the person that sexually assaulted us).



I'm not sure why this shocks you so much. If you think that people that have been raped go around saying they have respect for their rapist, then sure, you go ahead and think that. If you think they go on Twitter and praise them and say "they speak the truth". That's your prerogative. Not something I've ever seen. The closest are very mixed and torn feeling about abuse from a family member.



Sounds again, much more in line with her "feeling uncomfortable" story. yet another way her voice could have been heard.




Addressed this above.



So her voice was heard. Unfortunately, as my lengthy post, and the article I posted yesterday lay out in great detail. Her "voice" has been an inconsistent mess.



You leave out the part where the "her voice was heard" is in relation to her doing a Newspaper interview and the podcast.

Was her voice not heard from these? We are currently having this discussion precisely because her voice was heard. But I guess these don't add up as "facts" to you.



She made her voice heard on twitter for 2 years with praise and likes for Biden. Then, suddenly as he was entering the race (against her guy Bernie)



Again, facts. The twitter posts and likes are there. Not my bias, not my conjecture. They are there, plain to see.

And was she not a strong Bernie supporter? Did she not go on a pro-Bernie podcast to make her latest claim? Again, if you can dispute that then please enlighten me.



I would never discount anyone's story because the length of time it took for them to come forward. That's pretty standard. But I absolutely would be suspicious if a changing story came out at a particular time that lined up with the accuser's known motives.



Again, not sure how this statement is shocking or disgusting to you. I know the majority of abuse victims take a long time to come forward. But they have one searing, concrete story that lives with them forever.

We know the facts here. Her story has changed. We know she had political stances that would be motive. That motive could be dismissed and I would normally not put that in the mix. BUT, then come the Twitter posts again. Multiple posts of her saying -

"Timing is everything. Tic Toc..." "It's all about timing. Tic Toc..."



And then after those posts, you get a newspaper interview about her feeling uncomfortable and harassed the SAME WEEK that Biden announced he was running.



And then, she does the podcast interview with new, wildly different claims right after Super Tuesday





You say you want facts. Facts have been given. You talk about "reasonable doubt". Well in a court of law, both facts are presented and circumstantial evidence is presented. Sometimes cases are only built on circumstantial evidence. The jury is asked to use their judgement and common sense to come to a decision.



So my question is - Can you point to anything in all of the facts and circumstantial evidence so far that you find supports Reade's claims of sexual assault? Not feeling uncomfortable, or that she was having problems in the workplace.



Next - What evidence would make up your mind on the matter, one way or the other?



Next - If this were in court, and you were a juror, what would you vote to do with the information we know now? What would you decide if there is no report? What if there is a report and it just says she felt that she was being treated poorly in the office due to sexism? Or that she felt she was uncomfortable with certain physical contact with Biden?



Facts we know:



Has her story changed - yes



Does she have a history of telling multiple stories about why she left DC - yes



Did she say she told people about the incident, but when asked have said that she didn't tell them - yes



Did she change her story of what was on the alleged complaint - yes



Did she post and like positive thing on Twitter for almost 2 years - yes



Did her brother's story about what was told to him change - yes



Do any of the over 24 staff members in the Senate office remember her making any claims of any kind about harassment or assault - No





Circumstantial:



Does she have a history of lying and exaggerating about other events and people in her life - yes



Does she have political bias or motive - yes



Did she threaten multiple times to drop a story that would harm a politician that ran counter to her political standing - yes



Have there been claims of her lying, stealing, defrauding in her past - yes (although these are just claims, and may not be true)



Does Reade have any witnesses that can corroborate her claim that her "life was shattered" and she "went into a downward spiral" - Not as of yet



Does the general area that she said the incident took place seem plausible - Not really, possible sure



Was there a strict dress-code for Senate employees at the time that would have made the incident nearly impossible - yes



Have multiple news agencies investigated this story in depth and found any verifiable evidence either way? None so far.



Has the accused ever had any other rape clam made against him - No



Was the accused stringently vetted for earlier political positions - yes



Is the accused being cooperative with there being an investigation into the claim - yes



Does the accused have a history of unwanted hugging, touching, kissing - yes





So I guess my larger point here is that from what has come out so far, I believe there is reasonable doubt to the allegation. Could it have happened? Yes. Is it likely from what we have seen so far? Not in my opinion.



I apologize if I came off condescending and if I have let my bias speak more than the facts. Which is why I'm trying to just list out all the evidence that we know so far and make my judgement from that.

The truth is when the story first hit, I believed her. I figured that it was possible with Biden's history of handsiness. But i took a lot of time to gather facts and circumstantial evidence because I still felt that it seemed out of character for what I have seen from Biden over the years. And so far, the evidence doesn't look good for Reade from what I've seen.

Yes, it's my opinion. I'm not stating 100%, and I apologize if I have given that impression.


Apologies for my very short response here - I did read your post but I am like a week late on this Desert Island thing and owe lots of responses, and also have to like finish co-signing something, and a bazillion other things and just have too much on my plate to respond right now, but didn’t want to leave this unaddressed. I appreciate your apology and I apologize for my rather harsh condemnation and neglecting the fact that you’ve shared your stories and I should have been more sensitive to that.
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Old 05-05-2020, 10:13 AM   #468
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Apologies for my very short response here - I did read your post but I am like a week late on this Desert Island thing and owe lots of responses, and also have to like finish co-signing something, and a bazillion other things and just have too much on my plate to respond right now, but didn’t want to leave this unaddressed. I appreciate your apology and I apologize for my rather harsh condemnation and neglecting the fact that you’ve shared your stories and I should have been more sensitive to that.
eh, its all good. You made me think that I still need to sit back and wait to see how things play out, and not just get too stuck in one direction yet.

I am enjoying reading through the Desert Island posts. I didn't participate, but cool to see what people have come up with.

Good luck with all your work. I just always feel behind on everything right now. And completely unmotivated to get it done.

Thanks for the response. be safe
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Old 05-05-2020, 10:14 AM   #469
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Forgiven, that was funny.
.


Good, serious, sad stuff there. That lincolnproject vid...
Also a possible word play - "There's mourning in America" with Reagan's "It's morning in America".
It's a really good ad. Most definitely a play on Morning in America. It's an old style ad, even the video it's shot in looks more like 80's style quality, and older style voice. This is a direct play at middle age and older Americans, specifically republicans.
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Old 05-05-2020, 10:58 AM   #470
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It's a really good ad. Most definitely a play on Morning in America. It's an old style ad, even the video it's shot in looks more like 80's style quality, and older style voice. This is a direct play at middle age and older Americans, specifically republicans.
Ahhhh it's more for swing voters than republicans. If you're still pulling red levers and nothing but red levers at this point there's nothing short term that is going to pull you back.
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Old 05-05-2020, 11:06 AM   #471
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Ahhhh it's more for swing voters than republicans. If you're still pulling red levers and nothing but red levers at this point there's nothing short term that is going to pull you back.
very good point. I'm guessing still older swing voters (which there actually seems to be this time around) since even middle agers probably don't have a real great recollection of Reagan at this point.

Good strategy for sure. Hearing that Biden is actually doing anywhere from 8-13 points better than Clinton with 60+ voters. Hello Florida...
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Old 05-05-2020, 08:42 PM   #472
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https://twitter.com/stevenmazie/stat...269449728?s=19

November is way too far away
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Old 05-06-2020, 12:05 AM   #473
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What the hell?!

Republicans know from 2016 that a smear or accusation without any conclusive answer will let them play this out as long as they can.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/s...49499548286977

Unfortunately this pretty much gives the green light to Reade that she can now say anything she wants about the report, (that we now have no idea actually exists) with no accountability.
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Old 05-06-2020, 12:10 AM   #474
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Let's see if Mika will grill Trump for this one. I'll buy everyone here a beer if it even gets mentioned once on the tv news.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXMEmFNW...jpg&name=large
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Old 05-06-2020, 12:12 AM   #475
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What the hell?!

Republicans know from 2016 that a smear or accusation without any conclusive answer will let them play this out as long as they can.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/s...49499548286977

Unfortunately this pretty much gives the green light to Reade that she can now say anything she wants about the report, (that we now have no idea actually exists) with no accountability.
if it's a nothingburger as you say, posting about it every day isn't going to make the story go away.
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Old 05-06-2020, 12:24 AM   #476
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Anyone think that Trump trying to open things up again quickly, knowing that we will see a rise in deaths, is a much more cruel long play plan, of thinking if the virus is still bad enough into the fall, that it will be a low turnout election, rather than trying to get the economy back on track?

Just a thought.
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Old 05-06-2020, 12:56 AM   #477
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if it's a nothingburger as you say, posting about it every day isn't going to make the story go away.
I suppose you're right. Just seeing this, my hope that it would actually find some resolution, kinda got dashed.
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Old 05-06-2020, 06:28 AM   #478
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RBG hospitalized with an infection due to a gallstone. Good Lord no..
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Old 05-06-2020, 06:39 AM   #479
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Anyone think that Trump trying to open things up again quickly, knowing that we will see a rise in deaths, is a much more cruel long play plan, of thinking if the virus is still bad enough into the fall, that it will be a low turnout election, rather than trying to get the economy back on track?

Just a thought.
What election?
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:52 AM   #480
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Anyone think that Trump trying to open things up again quickly, knowing that we will see a rise in deaths, is a much more cruel long play plan, of thinking if the virus is still bad enough into the fall, that it will be a low turnout election, rather than trying to get the economy back on track?

Just a thought.


First the Reade thing. It is a nothing burger. It’s a smear attempt and Joe has handled it with class. If there was some actual evidence I’d be concerned. Ignore it.

And Trump giving up is two things. One he isn’t getting positive ratings from it. His bleach comments kinda damaged him for once so no more briefings. He can’t control the virus. As much as he wants it to go away it won’t.

What he can control better are the stock markets. Every time he talks about opening up, the fucking stocks rise. Literally the stupidest game that gets played. He’s hedging his bets that the DOW can rise again and he’ll proclaim victory because it’s a positive gain again for people’s 401ks!!

The more sinister side of letting the virus wash over the country is that it’ll have a larger impact on minority groups. And you bet he’s hoping that more brown deaths mean lower turnouts in November.

He’s put so much pressure on the Governors. Eventually they’ll have no choice but to try and get people back to work. CA is very close to, if not already, out of its surplus. .
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