US Politics XXII: Idk About You, But This Is Thread 22

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Hewson said:
While I agree he is a moron, it says he asked if people could breathe it in, not if it could be used to kill the virus in people. Question sounds more like "can you enter the room when the mist is active?" and someone is spinning it to make him sound dumberer.
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I thought of that, but I've learned long ago to never give him the benefit of the doubt. You will almost always be wrong. Whatever the worst thing is, just inevitably is when it comes to him.
Also, this was the next day after saying that you could give your lungs a "cleaning" by injecting yourself (or your lungs, not sure) with disinfectant. So this seems right in line with this thinking.
I truly believe that Trump thinks that the virus itself is in the lungs, and not in your blood, and causing damage to lungs and other organs. It's almost mystifying how simple he is. Truly like 6 year old type logic. It's astounding.
 
New York is cancelling the presidential primary instead of moving to mail-in ballots. Seems that Sanders made an error in suspending his campaign, and he should have stuck it out like he did in 2016. Now he's kneecapped his own ability to try to help the Democrats, even if it's becoming more and more clear they aren't interesting in trying to do anything.

Meanwhile, more corroboration coming out that Tara Reade has had a pretty consistent story in private since the 90s, and that her trajectory of struggling to decide whether/how to reveal the truth is much more in line with Christine Ford's.

https://www.businessinsider.com/former-neighbor-corroborates-joe-bidens-accuser-2020-4
 
Actually, they ARE moving to mail-in ballots for the downballot races! They're just straight up removing Sanders from the ballot to eliminate any chance he gets delegates, and also drive down turnout. Their explanation is that it's because of the pandemic, even though the downballots are still happening and they're moving to mail. Just a direct attempt to make sure Sanders and those who support him are driven out of the process.
 
Jerry Dunk said:
Actually, they ARE moving to mail-in ballots for the downballot races! They're just straight up removing Sanders from the ballot to eliminate any chance he gets delegates, and also drive down turnout. Their explanation is that it's because of the pandemic, even though the downballots are still happening and they're moving to mail. Just a direct attempt to make sure Sanders and those who support him are driven out of the process.
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I'm genuinely confused why it matters if someone who is no longer running gets delegates or not.
 
Diemen said:
I'm genuinely confused why it matters if someone who is no longer running gets delegates or not.
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i'm not sure what the exact number is but if he reaches a certain proportion of the total delegates then his staff gets representation on the convention committees, and thus greater influence on the overall party platform.
 
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Jerry Dunk said:
New York is cancelling the presidential primary instead of moving to mail-in ballots. Seems that Sanders made an error in suspending his campaign, and he should have stuck it out like he did in 2016. Now he's kneecapped his own ability to try to help the Democrats, even if it's becoming more and more clear they aren't interesting in trying to do anything.

Meanwhile, more corroboration coming out that Tara Reade has had a pretty consistent story in private since the 90s, and that her trajectory of struggling to decide whether/how to reveal the truth is much more in line with Christine Ford's.

https://www.businessinsider.com/former-neighbor-corroborates-joe-bidens-accuser-2020-4
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I don't know. I never ever want to be that person that doesn't take a sexual assault claim seriously. I can't imagine what the victims go through, but I automatically question the motives for EVERY person that suddenly makes an issue about it when somebody is running for office. I'm not saying that's always on the victim. I'm sure lawyers and press have something to do with it too.

I even thought the Kavanaugh thing was overboard, and I think he's a piece of shit. If Biden really did it, then fuck him, but I just don't know that any good is going to come from a "he said, she said" case while the biggest piece of shit of them all sits in the White House and has most likely assaulted many women.

I guess, ultimately I'm really torn on the subject. I always want to be respectful of the accuser, but it just always seems fishy when suddenly the right time to make noise about it is when someone is in line for a promotion or office.
 
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DaveC said:
i'm not sure what the exact number is but if he reaches a certain proportion of the total delegates then his staff gets representation on the convention committees, and thus greater influence on the overall party platform.
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Correct, which Sanders and his campaign have been saying since he announced his campaign was suspended. It's not even that crazy big of a deal in one sense since it won't affect the outcome of the primary, yet it's also such an easy thing for them to NOT do. But they can't help themselves. As one pro-Biden operative I saw put it, it doesn't really help Biden at all, avoids the real issue of trying to manage holding elections via mail, and fuels the already existing and legitimate belief that the process is rigged against Sanders.

The Democratic Party is very clear that they want to go after Republican voters, not the left.
 
Jerry Dunk said:
If you thought the Kavanaugh thing was overboard, then there's no further discussion necessary.
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Why wouldn't you be willing to have a discussion with someone who is obviously torn on the subject? Instead of belittling, maybe sell me on your viewpoint.

And for the record, I thought Christine Ford was very brave and in no way am I trying to suggest any kind of slander on her. But I just think the fact that there was no physical evidence that could be provided, we all knew how it was going to end up, and I felt like it was a bad look for the Democrats and gave the Republicans a chance to victimize Kavanaugh in the process.
 
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mikal said:
And for the record, I thought Christine Ford was very brave and in no way am I trying to suggest any kind of slander on her. But I just think the fact that there was no physical evidence that could be provided, we all knew how it was going to end up, and I felt like it was a bad look for the Democrats and gave the Republicans a chance to victimize Kavanaugh in the process.
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i think this is a very honest reaction, and similar to mine. i thought Kavanaugh was a piece of shit, but what i found most disqualifying in regards to this incident was how he reacted when questioned -- screaming, crying, telling us how much he loved beer. it was insane. if anyone doubts what white privilege is, just take a look at Kavanaugh.

i've been taking the Tara Reade story seriously, and on paper, she does have as much corroborating evidence as Christine Ford did. but neither man is being charged with a crime, because they evidence they have isn't enough to charge anyone with a crime. could i picture Kavanaugh doing what she claimed? absolutely. have i met people in their age group who were in the DC private school world in the early 1980s who did know Kavanaugh and his friends and her and have said, yes, absolutely this could have happened? yes. did i find Ford an incredibly compelling witness? yes. did i believe her? yes. did i personally find it disqualifying? yes. am i a Senator? no. do i believe Tara Reade is lying? i'm not sure. i'm still living with it. i don't think this call to CNN is quite the bombshell as it was initially presented in here -- but i've gotten used to the distortions. do i think Biden could have done it? yes. does Biden have a history of this behavior? no. was Biden known as one of the good ones? yes. can good people do bad things? yes.

this will come down to individual voters and how they feel about a he said/she said situation. i haven't fully digested yet.

for the record, i find this issue a significantly more compelling reason not to vote for Biden than any sort of relatively minor policy disagreement, especially when contrasted with the nihilism of the GOP death cult.

as for the NY State voting, i kind of wish that Bernie was on the ballot, if only to take away fuel for the ever-burning Leftist sense of betrayal and grievance. the Left never fails; it is only failed by others.

that said, in 20 out of 62 counties the only thing on the ballot would have been the primary. nothing else was being contested. after all the sanctimony about Wisconsin and how Biden was accused (again) of murdering people, it seems a little bit silly. this will also save a state that is literally bleeding money millions of dollars.
 
6.5 weeks after filing electronically for direct deposit: still no tax return.
 
I have no problem vetting this Biden accusation. Zero.

But you better do the same fucking thing for every one of Trump’s. Whatever it is 16-22 women who have come forward.

Trump story comes out, outrage for 20 mins and then on to something else.

Yet for Biden, and even Clinton all we hear daily for months are these stories.

It hurts one side politically, and it completely lowers any moral bar / standard as a society.

It’s enough to make you want to drink bleach
 
mikal said:
Why wouldn't you be willing to have a discussion with someone who is obviously torn on the subject? Instead of belittling, maybe sell me on your viewpoint.

And for the record, I thought Christine Ford was very brave and in no way am I trying to suggest any kind of slander on her. But I just think the fact that there was no physical evidence that could be provided, we all knew how it was going to end up, and I felt like it was a bad look for the Democrats and gave the Republicans a chance to victimize Kavanaugh in the process.
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My response was under the understanding that "overboard" was in response to how much credibility was given to Ford, given that Reade's credibility is the subject of the current discussion. How it was handled by the Democrats and the press is a totally separate discussion. I'm talking strictly about whether or not you believe Ford and Reade.
 
BEAL said:
I have no problem vetting this Biden accusation. Zero.

But you better do the same fucking thing for every one of Trump’s. Whatever it is 16-22 women who have come forward.

Trump story comes out, outrage for 20 mins and then on to something else.

Yet for Biden, and even Clinton all we hear daily for months are these stories.

It hurts one side politically, and it completely lowers any moral bar / standard as a society.

It’s enough to make you want to drink bleach
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Trump has been credibly accused numerous times. I'm quite sure he is a sex criminal, in addition to a criminal of other sorts and an incredible misogynist. But the Democrats are now in the second straight election against Trump in which they are running someone who cannot have their campaign put a spotlight on it because of their own candidate's issues. For Biden, that is obvious. For Clinton, it was because not only had her husband been accused of rape, but she had attacked the accuser. She couldn't go after Trump for it either.

There is plenty to criticize the media for in regards to this, of that there is no doubt. But the media often take their cues from the campaigns and the respective national committees. And the Biden campaign is in a no-win position on this now.
 
Hillary Clinton endorsed Biden today.

I don't know how long Biden can continue to dodge this issue of being accused of sexual assault. And how long the media can keep pretending it doesn't exist.
 
I think the main difference betweeen Blasey-Ford and Tara Reade is that Joe Biden was VP from 2008-2016, and has been running for President since 2019. This story — which has changed — came out in March 2020, right as he became the presumptive nominee and crushed her candidate. Her story has been pushed, hard, by the combination of Glenn Greenwald and right wing media.

Blasey-Ford’s story did not change, she spoke about it to friends for years as Kavanaugh rose in conservative judicial circles and she worried about him being a potential SCOTUS nominee. And when he became one, she very carefully came forward through Senator Feinstein. The second he stepped into the national spotlight and was put in a position where he could actively hurt American women, she stepped forward.

None of this necessarily has any bearings on the truth, or not, of either accusation. But I do think it’s a mistake to weight these two stories as the same.

I’m reading about it in the media all the time. I don’t see a cover up. I see this getting more air time and attention than Jean Carroll, and that’s likely because leftist media couldn’t care less about her. She’s not useful to them.

However, I am in agreement that this puts democrats in a difficult position. When you pursue purity, it’s easily weaponized by the opposition. What must be demanded by Democrats is treating every single one of Trump’s accusers the same. If they are going to accuse Biden — who has not nearly the same track record of B Clinton — then Trump’s position as the hog emperor of rape culture cannot get a pass.
 
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Jerry Dunk said:
My response was under the understanding that "overboard" was in response to how much credibility was given to Ford, given that Reade's credibility is the subject of the current discussion. How it was handled by the Democrats and the press is a totally separate discussion. I'm talking strictly about whether or not you believe Ford and Reade.
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That's fair. Maybe I could have articulated better before I edited my post.

My ex wife was a victim of sexual assault so I am very sympathetic to victims, but I just think it's important to fully investigate as well as look at the potential timing for victims to come out. And in Reade's case, it's very challenging not to look past both the timing and which campaign she was working for this year. And being honest with myself, I really believe I'd have a problem with it if it were a woman working on Biden's campaign accusing Bernie of assault as well. It's a tough thing to swallow.
 
Irvine511 said:
I think the main difference betweeen Blasey-Ford and Tara Reade is that Joe Biden was VP from 2008-2016, and has been running for President since 2019. This story — which has changed — came out in March 2020, right as he became the presumptive nominee and crushed her candidate. Her story has been pushed, hard, by the combination of Glenn Greenwald and right wing media.

Blasey-Ford’s story did not change, she spoke about it to friends for years as Kavanaugh rose in conservative judicial circles and she worried about him being a potential SCOTUS nominee. And when he became one, she very carefully came forward through Senator Feinstein. The second he stepped into the national spotlight and was put in a position where he could actively hurt American women, she stepped forward.

None of this necessarily has any bearings on the truth, or not, of either accusation. But I do think it’s a mistake to weight these two stories as the same.

I’m reading about it in the media all the time. I don’t see a cover up. I see this getting more air time and attention than Jean Carroll, and that’s likely because leftist media couldn’t care less about her. She’s not useful to them.

However, I am in agreement that this puts democrats in a difficult position. When you pursue purity, it’s easily weaponized by the opposition. What must be demanded by Democrats is treating every single one of Trump’s accusers the same. If they are going to accuse Biden — who has not nearly the same track record of B Clinton — then Trump’s position as the hog emperor of rape culture cannot get a pass.
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I don't think the Biden accusation has been covered at all by CNN. On air. Of course they are all virus all the time now. But I think Tara Reade was quoted as being very upset that Anderson Cooper didn't even ask Biden about it when he interviewed him recently. Which TV news network has asked Biden about it?

The guy is running for President, Trump is a mess during this pandemic, the election is months away. Joe Biden could be all over media going after Trump's response to this pandemic. And talking about what a Biden administration would be like during a pandemic and otherwise.

Admittedly I don't expose myself to too much TV news these days for the sake of my mental health, but I can't believe the Democratic candidate for President seems so invisible these days.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
I don't think the Biden accusation has been covered at all by CNN. On air. Of course they are all virus all the time now. But I think Tara Reade was quoted as being very upset that Anderson Cooper didn't even ask Biden about it when he interviewed him recently. Which TV news network has asked Biden about it?

The guy is running for President, Trump is a mess during this pandemic, the election is months away. Joe Biden could be all over media going after Trump's response to this pandemic. And talking about what a Biden administration would be like during a pandemic and otherwise.

Admittedly I don't expose myself to too much TV news these days for the sake of my mental health, but I can't believe the Democratic candidate for President seems so invisible these days.
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He has been very present on social media. Having worked in digital advertising, I can definitely say with confidence that his video content on Social Media has a much larger reach than television.
 
mikal said:
He has been very present on social media. Having worked in digital advertising, I can definitely say with confidence that his video content on Social Media has a much larger reach than television.
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Of course, but does he have to answer any questions about Tara Reade on social media? I would guess no, he controls the narrative on his social media. More accurately, his campaign management does.

I wonder if TV media agrees not to ask him about it, I hope not.
 
Ok, I didn't really want to reply to all this, especially with the lengthy response to follow, but I think that it does require some more detail then just the She said, He said.

As I've said before, I was a victim of sexual assault at the age of 5. This will come up later in my response to certain facets of this story. My wife was also a victim in her teens, so I have some background and frame of reference for what we are talking about.

I will also begin by saying that I believe Tara Reade's initial claims of feeling uncomfortable and Biden touching her neck and shoulders. This lines up with others that have come forward and gives me no reason not to believe that this likely happened.



But I am still very skeptical of the new allegation, and here is why:

1. Her actions and public display toward Biden from 2009 to 2018

* In an article Reade wrote in 2009, she commended Joe Biden for action he had taken against domestic abuse, writing: I should know what an abuser looks like. After all, I was working for then Senator Joseph Biden, who sponsored the Violence Against Women Act. Domestic violence is an equal opportunity offender.

* Between September of 2016 and May of 2017, Alexander Tara Reade used a Twitter account, under the name Tara McCabe, to spread praise of Joe Biden via tweeting, retweeting and liking various Tweets. Including his action in stopping sexual assault.

* In November of 2016, a few weeks after the election, Reade liked a tweet made by President Obama, wishing Joe Biden a “Happy Birthday,” and calling Biden “the best Vice President and friend” that he could have had.

* In January of 2017, Reade liked a tweet by the Obama, congratulating Joe Biden for receiving the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

* In April of 2017, Reade liked a tweet by the Huffington post that praised the former Vice President for helping men realize how important they are in the fight against sexual assault. It commends Biden for the steps he has taken to encourage men to take responsibility in stopping assaults against women.

* Also in April of 2017 Reade tweeted - “My old boss speaks the truth. Listen”

This is where I will step in about my history. In no universe would I or my wife or any other assault victim that I know of personally, would ever praise, or congratulate, or praise someone else's praise of my abuser. This just does not square at all with me.


Then comes in Reade's changing story.

* When she left DC, she said at the time it was because her husband got a job offer.

* Then she said it was because she got another job offer

* Then in 2018 she said she left DC and politics because she was tired of America’s wreckless Imperialism and xenophobia against Russia that she loved so much.

* Then in 2019 right after Biden joined the race, she changed the story for the fourth time saying she left because of Joe Biden, and that she had felt uncomfortable because he touched her neck and shoulders (this would be modified again later to include touching her hair) That she had gone to staffers and to Senate personnel and no one helped.

* In April of 2019, Reade originally said that Joe Biden’s handsiness made her feel uncomfortable when she worked as a Senate aide in 1993. At the time, however, she said that she did not consider Biden’s actions to be sexualization, instead comparing her experience to that of being a beautiful lamp.

* Further - Reade said she told four Biden aides, including Dennis Toner, a senior staffer, and then-chief of staff Ted Kaufman, about inappropriate behavior by Biden but not the alleged digital penetration. Afterward, she said, she was stripped of most of her duties, and later given a month to find another job at the instruction of Kaufman, who denies her account, along with Toner and two others in the office. No Biden staffers have corroborated the assault and harassment allegations to the media.
“She did not come to me. I would have remembered her if she had. And I do not remember her,” Kaufman said.

Side note – The NY Times and AP has interviewed all staffers, over 24, and the individuals in Senate Personnel that she said she told, and have found that they have all strongly denied any such reports from her happened.

* Her brother's story has also changed, first stating that she told her that she felt harrassed, to later saying she said he touched her under her clothes. Yet at the time, according to Reade, and her brother, he told her to "let it go and move on" A response that might fit the first story, but certainly not the latter.

* Later in December of 2019 she seems ok with Biden:
Tweeting: Whoever the democratic front-runner is for the 2020 Presidential run; Beto O’Rourke, the Joe Biden and Stacey Abrams ticket, Kamala Harris, or Bernie Sanders. We should urge these candidates to elevate the national conversation to more important matters.

* In January of 2020 her tone switches yet again. - Reade wrote that she was telling her story because of a picture the media has drawn conveying Joe Biden as a “champion of women’s rights.”
The reason I am writing about it is the hypocrisy that Biden is supposed to be the champion of women’s rights. Also, watch how the media coddles him.

Yet as noted above, just a little over two years prior, SHE was on twitter praising Biden for his work on women’s rights and domestic violence.

* Then on March of 2020 (one week after Super Tuesday) the story changed again, now saying that Joe Biden harassed and fired her.

* Then at the end of March 2020 the story escalates one more time when she goes on a podcast and says that Biden sexually assaulted her.


Also troubling, is that Reade has not been able to identify where or specifically when this took place.
As a child, I could tell you every last detail of where this happened to me, and over almost 40 years, it would have never even crossed my mind to give some milder version of what happened. Oh he only rubbed my back and kissed my head, would not be something I would ever dream of saying, when it was actual sexual assault.

I will reiterate that the story my wife has told me about her assault, has never changed, and she can recount exactly where it took place and has never given me any milder version. The same goes for my own experience, and friends that I have spoken to about their experiences.

Also, the video of the Larry King call, only backs up my original feelings. That yes she felt uncomfortable, and had problems at the Biden office with him. But the lack of any mention of sexual assault or going to authorities leaves me thinking this backs up her initial claim, but not her recent claim.

I'll close with a couple excerpts from Joan Walsh. A woman that was very critical of Biden when the first group of women came forward about being uncomfortable at times with Biden, and also was on record saying he shouldn't run.
But her feelings on the new allegations closely follow mine and she can probably state it better than I. One of the main points being that a man in a powerful position doesn't just do this once. Someone that would do this, would almost certainly be a repeat offender.

In his closely documented, almost 50-year career, there have been no other similar claims against Biden. The Times interviewed the other seven women who came out last year to accuse Biden of touching them against their will; none said his behavior crossed the line to sexual assault. After many dozen interviews, with Reade and her friends, along with lawyers and two dozen Biden staffers, the writers concluded: “The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden.” Men who do what Reade says Biden did tend to do it more than once (see Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, and Donald Trump). Also, once an allegation like Reade’s surfaces, others usually follow. They have not, at least so far.

“Believe women” was never that simple; nobody ever said, or meant, “Believe every woman, no matter how incredible or undocumented her claim.” The point was to give women’s accounts of sexual assault a fair and respectful hearing: first, hopefully, by police; or, if she made her claim to the media, by reporters.
Reporters have done just that with Tara Reade. Her allegation against Biden doesn’t stand up to close scrutiny.
 
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I will post this separately because i don't think it is as important but
just evidence of her being a very odd duck, there is the Russia/Putin thing.

Some of her experts about this subject in 2018 and 2019.

”President Putin has an alluring combination of strength with gentleness. His sensuous image projects his love for life, the embodiment of grace while facing adversity. It is evident that he loves his country, his people and his job.”
Reade continues,
“President Putin’s obvious reverence for women, children and animals, and his ability with sports is intoxicating to American women”
“President Putin scares the power elite in America because he is a compassionate, caring, visionary leader.”
“President Putin is beloved by Russia and he not going anywhere. Instead of being ensnared in the recent political intrigues (and America is trying hard to set that trap). President Putin is keeping a calm focus on his own country’s development and future, without America. To President Putin, I say keep your eyes to the beautiful future and maybe, just maybe America will come to see Russia as I do, with eyes of love. To all my Russian friends, happy holiday and Happy New Year.”

When the anti-Russia, anti-Putin propaganda starts up, personally, I shut down. I love Russia, I love my Russian relatives and friends. And like most women across the world, I like President Putin… a lot, his shirt on or shirt off.
 
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