US Politics XXII: Idk About You, But This Is Thread 22 - Page 10 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-20-2020, 12:45 PM   #181
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
womanfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: moons of Zooropa
Posts: 7,232
Local Time: 02:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron yuppie View Post
You seem to be suggesting that criticisms of Biden on this minuscule forum have some kind of reach that would be damaging to him. No one on here is waging a Twitter campaign to bust him down or anything like that.
Headache can confirm, but when he said "within our own walls" I believe he meant within the Democratic party/progressive/left/liberal/non-trump voters, not this forum.
__________________

womanfish is offline  
Old 04-20-2020, 12:52 PM   #182
Blue Crack Addict
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 18,458
Local Time: 10:02 PM
Folks, you have a spectrum of attitudes here.

You’re not going to have 100% compliance. Deal with that. You mightn’t get Peef’s vote, and you’re stuck with my Biden memes, but for the most part I’ve stopped my direct criticism and have focused more on fundamental arguments. I’ve indicated I can’t wait to vote for old man Joe, despite the fact that I’m not crazy about him.

I would venture to say Bernie loyalists (his 20-30%) are split, and likely progressive left (his other ~20% of people willing to vote for him) are mostly all onboard.

This shouldn’t come as a surprise. You can call his loyalists selfish and stubborn and whatever, but without them, without some consequence of pivoting back to the middle, we will continue to veer right. That disgruntlement is important.
__________________

LuckyNumber7 is online now  
Old 04-20-2020, 12:59 PM   #183
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: DC
Posts: 68,195
Local Time: 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron yuppie View Post
You seem to be suggesting that criticisms of Biden on this minuscule forum have some kind of reach that would be damaging to him. No one on here is waging a Twitter campaign to bust him down or anything like that.
Oh sure. That's totally what I'm suggesting.
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 04-20-2020, 01:05 PM   #184
Blue Crack Addict
 
mikal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Black Lodge
Posts: 27,081
Local Time: 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
Folks, you have a spectrum of attitudes here.

You’re not going to have 100% compliance. Deal with that. You mightn’t get Peef’s vote, and you’re stuck with my Biden memes, but for the most part I’ve stopped my direct criticism and have focused more on fundamental arguments. I’ve indicated I can’t wait to vote for old man Joe, despite the fact that I’m not crazy about him.

I would venture to say Bernie loyalists (his 20-30%) are split, and likely progressive left (his other ~20% of people willing to vote for him) are mostly all onboard.

This shouldn’t come as a surprise. You can call his loyalists selfish and stubborn and whatever, but without them, without some consequence of pivoting back to the middle, we will continue to veer right. That disgruntlement is important.
Yep, I'd say you've been very level headed and a really good example of how anyone should handle their candidate not being the nominee, so kudos. And you're right. I think this was sparked by the whole racist ad that wasn't, with only really one member here trying to push it, so we can probably all drop it.
mikal is offline  
Old 04-20-2020, 01:14 PM   #185
ONE
love, blood, life
 
iron yuppie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 10,576
Local Time: 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
Oh sure. That's totally what I'm suggesting.

Fine. If there's a baseline understanding that we're just shooting the shit about politics in here, as there should be, then the frequent retorts to any criticism of Biden as undermining his candidacy don't really serve any purpose. That's all I'm saying.
iron yuppie is online now  
Old 04-20-2020, 01:15 PM   #186
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
womanfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: moons of Zooropa
Posts: 7,232
Local Time: 02:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
Folks, you have a spectrum of attitudes here.

You’re not going to have 100% compliance. Deal with that. You mightn’t get Peef’s vote, and you’re stuck with my Biden memes, but for the most part I’ve stopped my direct criticism and have focused more on fundamental arguments. I’ve indicated I can’t wait to vote for old man Joe, despite the fact that I’m not crazy about him.

I would venture to say Bernie loyalists (his 20-30%) are split, and likely progressive left (his other ~20% of people willing to vote for him) are mostly all onboard.

This shouldn’t come as a surprise. You can call his loyalists selfish and stubborn and whatever, but without them, without some consequence of pivoting back to the middle, we will continue to veer right. That disgruntlement is important.
Well said. and again, if Bernie had won the nom, I would be contributing, volunteering and running to the polls to vote for him. This is a moment in time that is unique in our country's history, and I hope never repeated. But you're right and have been a good example, so i will dial back any criticism even of stupid Twitter posters. lol.

Onward to a life without Trump.
womanfish is offline  
Old 04-20-2020, 01:19 PM   #187
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
womanfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: moons of Zooropa
Posts: 7,232
Local Time: 02:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron yuppie View Post
Fine. If there's a baseline understanding that we're just shooting the shit about politics in here, as there should be, then the frequent retorts to any criticism of Biden as undermining his candidacy don't really serve any purpose. That's all I'm saying.
agreed. I think that what this forum serves as is a good reflection of many of the different points of view that are out in the general public. It's good to hear people's opinions and get info you might have missed. Glad to have everyone that is here, here.
Sorry if I was a bit course with my replies earlier. I do like Bernie, probably was my third choice, but fact is I would have voted for any of the candidates, even Marianne Williamson over Trump. LOL.
womanfish is offline  
Old 04-20-2020, 01:21 PM   #188
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
BEAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Diego
Posts: 6,516
Local Time: 02:02 AM
I hope we can have a life left after Trump.

He is, and will continue to burn the world down to avoid any consequences of his actions. He knows as soon as his presidency is over, he'll be arrested. I'm sure the IC will have a long memory of all the shit he's put that community through
BEAL is offline  
Old 04-20-2020, 01:44 PM   #189
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: DC
Posts: 68,195
Local Time: 09:02 PM
I've to 2 bucks. I'm trying to decide whether or buy a Diet Coke or a BARREL OF OIL.
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 04-20-2020, 01:47 PM   #190
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,918
Local Time: 10:02 PM
From the Toronto Star today - Why Are Americans So Servile to a Clown President?

Quote:
Why are Americans so obedient, so servile? That isn’t the image they hope to show the world but there they are, a herd of sheep in Trump’s presence, baaa-ing approvingly.

“Everybody feels the evil, but no one has courage or energy enough to seek the cure,” Alexis de Tocqueville wrote of Americans in 1830. Again, why?

Donald Trump stumps up to the podium every day and makes a fool of himself. He spouts nonsense for hours thus replicating his now-dead campaign rallies, lying, talking nonsense, insulting women, shouting at men, threatening to fire government staff for disagreeing with him, planning vengeance on Democratic governors, pronouncing words wrong and adding numbers incorrectly, sending crude racist remarks over to China, and making his terror and neediness plain.

...

Why do Americans, alleged rugged individualists, upholders of liberty, haters of king and government, put up with this grotesque man?
anitram is offline  
Old 04-20-2020, 02:09 PM   #191
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,471
Local Time: 10:02 PM
US Politics XXII: Idk About You, But This Is Thread 22

Because of the law? What is this “you know, from where I sit in this other country, I think that Americans really need to think about ...” article asking people to do? Lay down in traffic? Self-immolate? Is this writer unaware of the 2018 midterms?

If you ask supporters of Trump, they believe no president ever has been subjected to so much resistance and has never been given a chance and reporters are just so rude to him — basically the opposite of what that silly article is suggesting.
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 04-20-2020, 02:32 PM   #192
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: DC
Posts: 68,195
Local Time: 09:02 PM
crude oil has gone negative
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 04-20-2020, 02:35 PM   #193
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,918
Local Time: 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
Because of the law? What is this “you know, from where I sit in this other country, I think that Americans really need to think about ...” article asking people to do? Lay down in traffic? Self-immolate? Is this writer unaware of the 2018 midterms?
I think that people around the world have protested loudly and proudly while having a hell of a lot more to both risk and lose. Not referring to COVID (since protesting now is idiotic), but generally, there has been basically nothing of the sort in the US.
anitram is offline  
Old 04-20-2020, 02:36 PM   #194
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: DC
Posts: 68,195
Local Time: 09:02 PM


winning
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 04-20-2020, 02:38 PM   #195
Blue Crack Addict
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 18,458
Local Time: 10:02 PM
I wish this meant they’d pay me to own stocks
LuckyNumber7 is online now  
Old 04-20-2020, 02:43 PM   #196
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,918
Local Time: 10:02 PM
^

Obviously that's bad for oil (everywhere) but probably not that big of a deal since future contracts for December are trading at around $33, meaning this is more of an issue of storage capacity (i.e. everyone is full since economic activity is close to zero).
anitram is offline  
Old 04-20-2020, 02:44 PM   #197
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: DC
Posts: 68,195
Local Time: 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
I wish this meant they’d pay me to own stocks
Let's grab a couple of water jugs and head down to the refinery.

The jugs, of course, will cost more than the oil
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 04-20-2020, 03:03 PM   #198
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,471
Local Time: 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
I think that people around the world have protested loudly and proudly while having a hell of a lot more to both risk and lose. Not referring to COVID (since protesting now is idiotic), but generally, there has been basically nothing of the sort in the US.



What is it you would like to see?

And what do you mean “nothing of the sort”? It’s all so sweeping and general and can be so easily rebutted (January 21, 2017; the 2018 midterms; Black Lives Matter) that it’s generally meaningless.
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 04-20-2020, 03:17 PM   #199
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,918
Local Time: 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
What is it you would like to see?

And what do you mean “nothing of the sort”? It’s all so sweeping and general and can be so easily rebutted (January 21, 2017; the 2018 midterms; Black Lives Matter) that it’s generally meaningless.
You have a tendency to get very defensive about this.

The EVP I report to is American - he sent me a photo of armed Americans protesting in Texas with signs such as "Jesus is my vaccine", saying "this is the real America, it's not the coastal elites like me." So there is a variety of opinions.

What I mean is that Americans since the 60s/70s era ending with the Vietnam War have not had a meaningful culture of protest. There have been bursts - for example around the time of the start of the Iraq War, Occupy Wall Street was another short-lived one and then a bit around the Trump inauguration. But compare that to what you see elsewhere and it just generally looks like Americans are far more complacent. My theory has always been that because you have access to cheap stuff in stores like Walmart, even the lower classes can have a 60 inch TV and people generally aren't going hungry so it's kind of an opioid really.

Trump is deranged, racist, misogynist and a total failure at every level. There has been nobody on his level in a western democracy in the last several decades who would even come close, at least not on a national level - I'm sure at a local level there have been all sorts of lunatics everywhere. And the US media still wouldn't even want to call him a liar or label something a lie - only some have started selectively lately. It's absolute madness!
anitram is offline  
Old 04-20-2020, 03:55 PM   #200
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,471
Local Time: 10:02 PM
it's not about being defensive -- it's about the eye-rolling nature of the "let me tell you something about your country." it is a pet peeve of mine. i understand that it's simply part of being part of the biggest, noisiest country. everyone has an opinion, often about things they aren't terribly informed about, and that's fine. it's part of the territory. i let it slide, sometimes gently correct people, but mostly nod and basically tell them i agree with the big picture (I do) but do my best to round things out and explain things culturally. i don't walk around the globe shouting "let me tell you something about your country and what you need to do differently," precisely because of this.

there is plenty of protest in the US. i've lived in DC (and NYC) for the past 15 years. i've protested with 100s of 1000s of people against the Iraq War, for abortion rights, for marriage equality, etc. and that's just me. on the other side, the "March for Life" draws colossal crowds.

you are correct, insofar as the US isn't France, where strikes are scheduled and a part of the culture. but everything else is sweeping and vague. "elsewhere"? when it's USA vs the world, it's very easy to cherry pick a point of comparison (say, France) to indicate something lacking. as you say "it just generally looks like" -- because these comparisons are impossible to make in any sort of meaningful way, and so you find an available cultural hook (cheap shit at Wal-Mart) to hang your observation on. you're also talking about a country that is no stranger to political assassinations and numerous urban riots.

i understand the tendency to want to vent because it's frustrating, i'm frustrated too! but a "culture of protest" critique might be better informed by geography. if you live in France, you know where to go -- Paris. in the UK, London. the US is vast, and has a vast population. a city can't be meaningfully shut down in a way that would have a national impact in the way that you can in smaller countries where the national capital holds not just a significant % of the total population, but where everyone feels a sense of ownership in what happens in the capital. also, Americans are fucking busy. most Americans view their vote as their protest because it's the tool that we have that unifies 330m people across a vast continent with many disperse centers of political and cultural power. it's more apt to compare the US to the EU, or to Brazil or India or other huge, chaotic places.

yes, Trump is awful. he is unprecedented in the US. he's also not terribly popular and got clobbered in 2018 and is polling 7 points behind Joe Biden's corpse.
__________________

Irvine511 is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×