US Politics XXI: Old Man 3-Way

[anitram]

So what happens if Joe Biden passes away before November?
If its before the convention then I assume the delegates select someone else, if its after does the VP choice become the top of the ticket?
Sad that I'd even ask such a thing, but I honestly don't expect him to complete a 4 year term and with the current health crisis he is obviously in a high risk category, and its something that needs to be considered.
Coupled with the video LN7 posted of him blathering along, I have genuine concerns.

I am certain that Biden is senile. It's a horror that he's being nominated and anyone unwilling to recognize the state of his mental acuity is willfully blind at this point.

I think that the party elects a replacement (i.e. it doesn't go to the VP choice).

 

[Hewson]

Remember when for like a week when you thought Bernie was going to win and you started apologizing and being nice to people? I’m sad to realize that apparently wasn’t sincere.

Literally every vote counts in Pennsylvania. I wish I had a swing state vote. It’s beyond depressing to see one being thrown away.

So just a real simple question. Really think back on ALL that Trump has done these last 3.5 years. Really think about it. And then, knowing that no third party candidate is going to win the election, try to, as non-biased as possible, tell us why Trump would be better than having Biden for the next 4 years. Keeping in mind that this will be Trump, without regard for reelection, knowing impeachment is off the table, and has complete protection from the Senate and DOJ.

I would like to hear your specific thoughts on how Trump would be better.

One of the things about our democracy is he gets to vote for whoever he wants and if he is dead set against Joe Biden for any reason and votes 3rd party or writes in Bernie, that's his prerogative. Not sure why folks have to give him such a hard time over it.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Not to mention the fact that the Trump administration is still in court trying to completely dismantle the Affordable Care Act. Including protection for preexisting conditions, he's lying when he says otherwise. And not to mention, I hate to say it, but Trump appointing to the Supreme Court in a second term.

Absolute truth that this pandemic points out that Bernie does have very good ideas and ideals about health care. But Trump certainly doesn't, and I don't think Joe Biden wants to destroy the ACA. Yes the ACA needs lots of improvement.

The pandemic will have long range financial effects on this country, everyone knows that-except for Trump and those who believe his huge bounceback bullshit. So budget wise it's going to be really tough.

 

[Hewson]

I am certain that Biden is senile. It's a horror that he's being nominated and anyone unwilling to recognize the state of his mental acuity is willfully blind at this point.

I think that the party elects a replacement (i.e. it doesn't go to the VP choice).

Its scary.
I've mentioned before (and I think you have as well) that a maximum age for a candidate should be considered. We have a minimum age, so why not? It astounds me that our country seems to feel the only viable candidates (on either side) are septuagenarians. Obviously by no means does that mean a 70+ year old can't be effective, but we've seen one in action currently who isn't and I think Biden is losing his wits by the day.

 

[womanfish]

One of the things about our democracy is he gets to vote for whoever he wants and if he is dead set against Joe Biden for any reason and votes 3rd party or writes in Bernie, that's his prerogative. Not sure why folks have to give him such a hard time over it.

Well, possibly because we have a pathological lying, white nationalist, sexist, xenophobic, serial sexual assaulting, clinically narcissistic psychopath as the president, who has already dismantled the structure of checks and balances and is currently stripping any oversight roles that will stop future corrupt actions, who will be SO much worse when not constrained at all by reelection prospects, and poised to fill Supreme Court seats and hundred of more federal judge seats that will reshape our democracy and thwart any progressive cause for decades, even rolling back any progressive progress that has been made before now.

And the alternative is someone who will govern a bit more progressively than Obama.

I dunno. Maybe just this one time in our country's history, just maybe skip the third party protest vote. Just a thought.

But you know, I'd hate to give anyone a hard time when literally our future hangs in the balance.

 

[Irvine511]

One of the things about our democracy is he gets to vote for whoever he wants and if he is dead set against Joe Biden for any reason and votes 3rd party or writes in Bernie, that's his prerogative. Not sure why folks have to give him such a hard time over it.

I think not voting is bullshit, especially if you complain a lot. Obviously, it’s someone’s choice, but I think it’s a shitty thing to do. We have one real tool, one that people died for. And you won’t use it?

That’s universal for me, btw. I’ve thought that forever. I’ve switched parties and voted tactically over the years in primaries because I think that my vote is the one truly quantifiable thing I can do.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I really do hate to say it but I think this country is so far gone that Trump's going to win a second term no matter what. I know that's cynical and awful to say, but he's got more than enough people conned. And they'll just say economy wise that Trump was a victim of the pandemic. And that the pandemic was completely exaggerated and weaponized to defeat Trump. They're already saying that all over the internets.

They completely fall for his victimhood act. As my Mom used to say, he plays them like a fiddle.

 

[Hewson]

I think not voting is bullshit, especially if you complain a lot. Obviously, it’s someone’s choice, but I think it’s a shitty thing to do. We have one real tool, one that people died for. And you won’t use it?

That’s universal for me, btw. I’ve thought that forever. I’ve switched parties and voted tactically over the years in primaries because I think that my vote is the one truly quantifiable thing I can do.

I agree, and JD said he will vote, but for someone he trusts:

I'll vote for someone I trust to do good for people. It is most certainly not about me.

And yes I know that in reality voting for a 3rd party candidate is a vote for someone who in this country stands no chance of being elected. However, its still a person's right to do so.

I plan as of now to vote for Biden, just to get Trump out, but he's not a candidate I feel particularly passionate about and I have deep concerns over his obvious decline that is showing lately.
I can't fault someone for choosing not to vote for him (or any other candidate) for whatever their reasons may be.

 

[Hewson]

I really do hate to say it but I think this country is so far gone that Trump's going to win a second term no matter what. I know that's cynical and awful to say, but he's got more than enough people conned. And they'll just say economy wise that Trump was a victim of the pandemic. And that the pandemic was completely exaggerated and weaponized to defeat Trump. They're already saying that all over the internets.

They completely fall for his victimhood act. As my Mom used to say, he plays them like a fiddle.

I sadly tend to agree. I think a candidate who could eviscerate him in a debate would change that. I don't think Biden will be that guy, hope I'm wrong.

 

[DaveC]

And the alternative is someone who will govern a bit more progressively than Obama.

you're stating this is like it's an obvious fact when it is merely your personal perception. jerry clearly doesn't see biden in this way, which makes what is a slam-dunk-no-brainer for you into something he can't do.

i think choosing not to vote is as valid of an option in an election as spoiling your ballot or writing in a candidate who has no hope. you don't have to like any of it, but like hewson said the thing about democracy is that people also have the choice not to participate. that's what people died for, not so that folks who don't want to vote for someone are required to hold their noses and do it.

 

[BEAL]

There is a reason why Trump has gone to such lengths to get Sleepy Joe out of the race. It's why he's fanning the flames of Bernie with blaming Warren, for stating AOC and the Squad will never support Joe....BURISMA!!!

From the beginning there's been one candidate that their polling shows will beat Trump, and it's Biden. He is safe, he doesn't have EMAILS - BENGHAZI-PIZZAGATE-MURDERER!!! crap that hung over every Clinton move. People hated Clinton, and in the end that did her in.

Biden won the nomination without even trying. His campaign was DEAD. They had no groundwork in most of the upcoming states, and even in SC he thought he was done as the polls started to really shrink.

But people want stability and Joe provides that. People want Trump gone, they want to go back to a time where it wasn't so fucking mental. Joe is a bandaid, and it's why so important who his VP and cabinet will be.

Cause 2024 will still be the same shit from GOP, a Trump will most likely reach the nomination. Junior or Ivanka. I lean the latter since she's created millions and millions of jobs!!!

As sad as it is, Joe is our best shot. Not getting emotions involved, just by the data. He beats Trump.

And now I hope Obama can get off the sidelines

 

[Irvine511]

I agree, and JD said he will vote, but for someone he trusts:





And yes I know that in reality voting for a 3rd party candidate is a vote for someone who in this country stands no chance of being elected. However, its still a person's right to do so.



I plan as of now to vote for Biden, just to get Trump out, but he's not a candidate I feel particularly passionate about and I have deep concerns over his obvious decline that is showing lately.

I can't fault someone for choosing not to vote for him (or any other candidate) for whatever their reasons may be.

I can if you’re going to walk around calling people like Barack Obama murderers as part of your health care plan push.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I sadly tend to agree. I think a candidate who could eviscerate him in a debate would change that. I don't think Biden will be that guy, hope I'm wrong.

Yes like Elizabeth Warren could have. Like Kamala Harris could have.

Sadly I don't know how much debates even matter. Facts don't matter, intellect doesn't matter. Clown car circus shows impress lots of people these days.

How many debates did Trump win when he debated Hillary? He creeped up behind her like some sort of weirdo, and brought women into the audience that had accused Bill Clinton. That's winning a debate these days. So much winning, I'm tired of all this winning.

 

[womanfish]

you're stating this is like it's an obvious fact when it is merely your personal perception. jerry clearly doesn't see biden in this way, which makes what is a slam-dunk-no-brainer for you into something he can't do.

i think choosing not to vote is as valid of an option in an election as spoiling your ballot or writing in a candidate who has no hope. you don't have to like any of it, but like hewson said the thing about democracy is that people also have the choice not to participate. that's what people died for, not so that folks who don't want to vote for someone are required to hold their noses and do it.

It's not like I'm making it up out of thin air here. Biden is running on a platform, that is quite a lot more progressive than Obama ran on and how he was in office.

And again. Choosing not to vote, I could say is valid if maybe the Rep nom was Romney or something. But even then. This is about the COURTS. THE COURTS. THE COURTS. Above all. You can dislike the Dem candidate. Fine. But there will be irreparable damage done for a generation if we have Trump (or any other GOP candidate for that matter) for the next four years. Plain and simple.

And I'm sorry, but I asked a straight-forward question to Jerry and I don't really think he can give a serious answer to it.
Even if Biden was on par with Obama policy wise, but was, I don't know - sane, told the truth, stood up for regular working people, reinstated higher taxes on the wealthy and corps, nominated left leaning judges, improved healthcare a bit, got climate change policy passed, got some more gun reforms, got improvements in affordable college, and wasn't a psychopath, etc...
Then why the hell would you not want that person to at least hold the seat until a more progressive candidate runs the next time?

I'm sorry, but there is no valid reasoning, there is no excuse if you call yourself a liberal or progressive or whatever, to break the legs of the Judiciary and federal courts so that the time the next progressive candidate comes along and gets into office that they can actually DO something.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I get tired of hearing men, in particular, white men, say they won't vote because their right to vote is something they've never had to fight for.

But regardless, I just want somebody to explain to me when not voting has actually solved anything in this country. All it does, from what I've seen, is lessen the chances of one's voice being heard, and makes it easier for politicians to stomp all over them, because hey, in their eyes, you didn't get out there and speak up, so who gives a shit what you want, right? I do agree that if young people want change, they need to get the fuck out there and actually vote in large numbers. It's true that some of the issues they face with voting are definitely due to voter suppression (look at the voter ID laws, for instance, some of which are intended to try and stifle the young vote), but some of it is also due to the fact that a lot of them just, for whatever reason, do not vote in large numbers, and that really, desperately needs to change.

I echo the sentiments of those who would've much preferred Elizabeth Warren being the nominee, and it pisses me off that our country can't get the fuck over itself and let a woman take charge of something for once. To say nothing of all the numerous younger candidates that were out there that we could've had, too, so we didn't have to worry about this race being between two old white guys yet again.

My big hope now is that Biden picks a REALLY good VP candidate and the Democrats organize to find ways to make sure everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, is able to vote (if they have to go state by state and find unconventional means to do so, go for it), and encourages them to actually vote in large numbers.

 

[DaveC]

https://twitter.com/mbaram/status/1247597527987339269

 

[Irvine511]

I wish that were parody. I wonder what those “hoards” from Atlanta look like?

 

[Hewson]

https://twitter.com/mbaram/status/1247597527987339269

Hoping I win.

 

[Hewson]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/l...on-impeachment-dies/ar-BB12ljdE?ocid=msedgdhp

Reports of Hillary seen leaving the Tripp residence carrying a bottle of strychnine have yet to be confirmed.

 

[Jerry Dunk]

I am definitely going to vote, and I'll vote in plenty of down ballot races, for any candidate worthy of a vote. Joe Biden isn't. I'll leave the presidential line blank if that's what's left for me.

I'm not doing this lightly, and I can't stand Trump. But Joe Biden will not help people. On every issue I have to ask myself if he's lying or just senile.

You can't make real change if the people in power believe they don't have to change. They need to understand this won't cut it any more. Whether the solution is for them to finally start offering the things people need (not want, NEED) is up to them at this point. I'll work tirelessly in local elections for candidates who stand for the things people need. And I'll work outside of electoral politics, which is not a solution at this time for real change.

America is a failed state, that much is clear. This pandemic proved what was obvious to many already. It's the reason many don't bother with the political process. Blaming voters for that isn't a way forward. Starting holding the people in power accountable. They are the ones telling you that you don't deserve healthcare, not me.

This is not about me. This is about everyone I know losing their jobs and going bankrupt. This is about people losing their healthcare. This is about America's murder of innocents both at home and abroad. Donald Trump and Joe Biden will help none of those people.

 

[monkeyskin]

Cause 2024 will still be the same shit from GOP, a Trump will most likely reach the nomination. Junior or Ivanka. I lean the latter since she's created millions and millions of jobs!!!

Assuming Biden wins in 2020, how likely is it that Trump Snr runs again?

And a question for Jerry: is there any amount of cooperation between Sanders and Biden going forward that would be enough for you to vote for Biden? Be it adoption of policy, endorsement, campaigning, a cabinet position for Bernie?

 

[Jerry Dunk]

No, because anything he'd say to try capitulating to the left would be full of shit.

 

[Irvine511]

I am definitely going to vote, and I'll vote in plenty of down ballot races, for any candidate worthy of a vote. Joe Biden isn't. I'll leave the presidential line blank if that's what's left for me.

I'm not doing this lightly, and I can't stand Trump. But Joe Biden will not help people. On every issue I have to ask myself if he's lying or just senile.

You can't make real change if the people in power believe they don't have to change. They need to understand this won't cut it any more. Whether the solution is for them to finally start offering the things people need (not want, NEED) is up to them at this point. I'll work tirelessly in local elections for candidates who stand for the things people need. And I'll work outside of electoral politics, which is not a solution at this time for real change.

America is a failed state, that much is clear. This pandemic proved what was obvious to many already. It's the reason many don't bother with the political process. Blaming voters for that isn't a way forward. Starting holding the people in power accountable. They are the ones telling you that you don't deserve healthcare, not me.

This is not about me. This is about everyone I know losing their jobs and going bankrupt. This is about people losing their healthcare. This is about America's murder of innocents both at home and abroad. Donald Trump and Joe Biden will help none of those people.

We need liberal SCOTUS nominees.

It’s not about you.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

We need liberal SCOTUS nominees.

It’s not about you.

When you pivot to the “it’s not about you” line you’re implying his argument is that it’s all about him.

That’s not his argument.

 

[anitram]

No, because anything he'd say to try capitulating to the left would be full of shit.

Would you have voted for Elizabeth Warren?

 

[Irvine511]

When you pivot to the “it’s not about you” line you’re implying his argument is that it’s all about him.

That’s not his argument.

Yes it is. It’s total head-up-ass self-righteousness. You’re either voting for Ginsberg or you’re not. Politics is real and raw and lived.

If you want more people to get more healthcare then you will do everything you can to remove Donald Trump from the Oval Office. Voting is how that gets accomplished. If you refuse to do that in favor of some kind of moral posture, that’s vanity.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-vFipQDCFz/?igshid=3bhyf3usi2gl

 

[Jerry Dunk]

Would you have voted for Elizabeth Warren?

I very much worry about the trust factor with her as well, because of how much back tracking she did on healthcare. But I'm pretty sure I would have, yes.

Speaking of healthcare, let's take a look at a plan to get excited about:

[tweet]1247982680274337796[/tweet]

 

[womanfish]

So far Jerry's answers have shown that no one but Sanders "can be trusted". To me it just shows a cult following mentality.

And not voting for Biden absolutely means it's all about him. It's saying that instead of improving on the ACA, he's willing to have it wiped out completely for 21 million people that now use it. That's one example.

If Ginsberg is replaced by another right winger, and the federal courts are filled with Trump cult followers, then we could list dozens of important issues that will either be torn down or never see the light of day.

How is that not making it about him?

 

[Jerry Dunk]

This is not about me. This is about everyone I know losing their jobs and going bankrupt. This is about people losing their healthcare. This is about America's murder of innocents both at home and abroad. Donald Trump and Joe Biden will help none of those people.

If you guys aren't willing to listen and just want to keep pretending you didn't read what I said, there's not much more to discuss here.