US Politics XXI: Old Man 3-Way

[Jerry Dunk]

I don't trust either of them and won't vote for either of them.

 

[Jerry Dunk]

[TWEET]1237573798137696257[/TWEET]

Sometimes they let the mask slip and tell you the truth.

 

[mikal]

I don't trust either of them and won't vote for either of them.

So you’re voting for Trump then.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Not worth a response.

From exit polls, it Looks like WA that Sanders won by 48 points, will go to Biden, and maybe not by a little.

No need to proclaim a former caucus delta is anything like a primary.

 

[mikal]

We've had plenty of disagreements DaveC. But thank you for this response, I have to say that this is what I think 99% of Sanders supporters will get to. There is no bigger threat to our country, and frankly, the world order, than to do anything to help Trump. I would vote for Gabbard over Trump. I wouldn't like it, it would worry me, but I would do it.

Yep, kudos to Dave C as well for a grounded response. Plus he said nice things about Biffy Clyro song once.

 

[DaveC]

Joe Biden would dump all of these things in a heartbeat to make a deal with Republicans to increase funding for Romneycare by a couple of million dollars. I do not trust him or believe him when he says he's on the side of vulnerable people, and he has a decades-long track record to prove that.

Basically any argument in Joe Biden's favor is one I can refute by pointing to his own words and actions. The man has not, cannot, and will not earn my vote. I don't trust him to be a leader or stand for the things I value and the people who need help the most.

trump has proven again and again that he's anti-vulnerable people, though. and he surrounds himself with people who actively and openly persecute those vulnerable people, and there's a track record to prove that.

biden unquestionably fucking sucks, i totally agree 1000% with you. but with his adminstration there's at least a fair chance that the boot that's on the neck of those poor people stops trying to grind in quite as much as it is right now.

it's not the ideal option, but is it not worth relieving the pressure a bit?

 

[Jerry Dunk]

So you’re voting for Trump then.

The DNC is voting for Trump by rallying around and forcing through this senile old man with a horrific political history, who is all but guaranteed to lose barring a societal fracture caused by a simultaneous pandemic and economic collapse that throws everything into chaos.

The Democratic Party wants to spit in the face of the left and then blame them for their inability to stop the looming fascism on the right. Fuck that and fuck this argument you are making.

 

[Jerry Dunk]

trump has proven again and again that he's anti-vulnerable people, though. and he surrounds himself with people who actively and openly persecute those vulnerable people, and there's a track record to prove that.

biden unquestionably fucking sucks, i totally agree 1000% with you. but with his adminstration there's at least a fair chance that the boot that's on the neck of those poor people stops trying to grind in quite as much as it is right now.

it's not the ideal option, but is it not worth relieving the pressure a bit?

I'm not voting for the guy who will let everyone calmly say "Things are back to normal!" because he hired politer ICE agents to carry out the mass deportations. I'm not voting for the guy who vocally supported George W. Bush's plan to murder innocent civilians and put a medal around his neck well after the body count eclipsed one million people. I'm not voting for the guy who said in his mid-60s that abortion is not a right.

 

[DaveC]

I'm not voting for the guy who will let everyone calmly say "Things are back to normal!" because he hired politer ICE agents to carry out the mass deportations. I'm not voting for the guy who vocally supported George W. Bush's plan to murder innocent civilians and put a medal around his neck well after the body count eclipsed one million people. I'm not voting for the guy who said in his mid-60s that abortion is not a right.

fair enough. i'm pragmatic to a fault so we see it differently.

i admire your conviction. you always stick to your guns and you have fair reasoning and courage to back up what you say. go phils

 

[Irvine511]

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Not worth a response.

Should have stuck with this

 

[Irvine511]

Like, we will have at least two SCOTUS vacancies fairly soon.

 

[Diemen]

You’re right, we should totally walk away from this election and give Trump two more SCOTUS seats because the dem candidate isn’t ideal. That’s by far the better outcome for the left and its hopes for this country.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I have a way of changing peef’s mind.

If you don’t vote for the alternative to Trump in November, I will never live down your criticism of me having done what you’re doing in 2012.

I will be so smug and in your face. I will proclaim ultimate interference vindication.

Eh, sounds pretty bad right

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

You’re right, we should totally walk away from this election and give Trump two more SCOTUS seats because the dem candidate isn’t ideal. That’s by far the better outcome for the left and its hopes for this country.

Seriously. I have yet to see any examples of how not voting has somehow magically changed things for the better.

Also, given this year marks 100 years since women won the right to vote, I have to say, hearing anyone talk about how they won't vote if they don't get the candidate they want really irks me. If I hear a woman or POC saying that, to me, that seems a slap in the face to all those who fought to give them that right. And if it's a white male, who's never had to fight for that right at all, saying that, that's especially insulting.

As for the mention of Biden's stumbles with his words and whatnot, I mean...Bernie had a heart attack last year. Whether it's Trump, Biden, or Sanders, we're all choosing between three old men who have some kind of health problems, so frankly, that argument's pretty irrelevant at this point no matter who you're supporting. But at least the chances are good that Biden or Bernie would pick a decent (and likely younger) VP, so that if, God forbid, something happens to either of them, we'll still have somebody competent and healthy enough to take their place. I'll happily take that over the chances of a President Pence.

I think we've all made it pretty well clear in here where our personal preferences lie, and most of my preferences have already dropped out at this point. And between Biden and Bernie I'd be more aligned with Bernie, myself.

But if Biden wins the nomination, he's getting my vote. No question. Because I'm not just voting for him, and the fact remains that this is not an election we can afford to sit on the sidelines for. Sorry. It's not. I am not putting up with four more years of this insanity.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

Man, I didn't think there'd be a likely Dem nominee who makes Hillary look infallible by comparison, but here we are. It's absolutely gross negligence that Biden in his rapidly deteriorating mental state is more or less about to become the main challenger to Trump - simply because the opportunity for a step towards mild social democracy is too much to handle for some.

I could stomach Buttigieg or Warren, even if the former is a vacuum of ideas, but it's so difficult to understand how this version of Biden is at all palatable.

I'm not voting for the guy who will let everyone calmly say "Things are back to normal!" because he hired politer ICE agents to carry out the mass deportations. I'm not voting for the guy who vocally supported George W. Bush's plan to murder innocent civilians and put a medal around his neck well after the body count eclipsed one million people. I'm not voting for the guy who said in his mid-60s that abortion is not a right.

fair enough. i'm pragmatic to a fault so we see it differently.

i admire your conviction. you always stick to your guns and you have fair reasoning and courage to back up what you say. go phils

I simultaneously agree with both of these posts, unsurprisingly.

 

[intedomine]

Man, I didn't think there'd be a likely Dem nominee who makes Hillary look infallible by comparison, but here we are. It's absolutely gross negligence that Biden in his rapidly deteriorating mental state is more or less about to become the main challenger to Trump - simply because the opportunity for a step towards mild social democracy is too much to handle for some.

I could stomach Buttigieg or Warren, even if the former is a vacuum of ideas, but it's so difficult to understand how this version of Biden is at all palatable.

I agree. I am very underwhelmed by who the party has settled with, and that’s what it feels like to me - settling.

Regardless of policy and ideology - considering there was such a vast field of candidates, there were plenty along the way that I feel could have been enigmatic enough as a fresh candidate to take on Trump. Many withdrew before it got to the crunch, but I gravitated to quite a few. Warren, Buttigieg, Booker, O’Rourke, Harris, even Bloomberg offered something new to get behind (if not much else). But a bumbling Biden it is.

 

[mikal]

I'm not voting for the guy who will let everyone calmly say "Things are back to normal!" because he hired politer ICE agents to carry out the mass deportations. I'm not voting for the guy who vocally supported George W. Bush's plan to murder innocent civilians and put a medal around his neck well after the body count eclipsed one million people. I'm not voting for the guy who said in his mid-60s that abortion is not a right.

So if you and people like you stay home and Trump gets re-elected, we’ll come back to you when Ruth Ginsburg passes away. Or when Trump’s DOJ starts prosecuting members of the press that disagree with him.

Conviction and dedication is fine until it becomes irresponsible.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Maybe instead of blaming the Democratic voters for making a decision, some blame can be cast towards the candidate who had a major lead and absolutely blew it by his inability to reach out to African American voters in South Carolina. A guy who refused to even reach out to Jim Clyburn, which likely would have put him over the top and given him the nomination, because "he's not my politics."

If Joe Biden's so terrible, how was Bernie Sanders ever going to beat Donald Trump if he couldn't beat Biden? Don't give me this "it's rigged by the establishment" bullshit. Sanders had a giant lead and Biden was dead - no money and no infrastructure. All Sanders had to do was play nice a little bit. And hey, I kind of respect that he's so set in his ideals that he refused to compromise even a bit. That's admirable. It's also a really shitty way to get elected in a national race. He did this to himself. Blame him.

 

[Irvine511]

I, for one, blame churchy black voters in South Carolina for not realizing how much of a racist Joe Biden is. Or professional women voters in the VA suburbs for not realizing what a sexist hair sniffer he is.

It is, of course, progressive to dismiss or diminish the African American community and women and the message these groups overwhelmingly sent through their votes.

We need more white milennials to teach them these things.

 

[womanfish]

If you two don't stop making sense, you're going to be asked to leave.

On a side note. Headaches 2016 vs. 2020 Michigan map was a bit premature.
Turns out, Biden won every county in Michigan. He also won every county in
Mississippi and Missouri.

 

[anitram]

Think of Ruth Bader Ginsburg's age and health.

Hold your nose AND VOTE ACCORDINGLY.

 

[Diemen]

Think of Ruth Bader Ginsburg's age and health.

Hold your nose AND VOTE ACCORDINGLY.

Seriously. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[womanfish]

It looks like Sanders didn't hit the 15% threshold in Mississippi...

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

With Florida and Georgia coming up next week this thing's a wrap.

The only question is whether or not Sanders wants to stick around to lose by 60 points in Florida.

 

[BEAL]

I expect him to drop by end of this week. Why risk his health any more than he has? No need to go to giant rallies. Rest up for time being and then help the Dems win. He can still have an influential voice within the party. There's clearly an excitement for stuff he's proposed.

Joe needs to energize these voters too. Who he picks for his VP should also reflect a progressive attitude.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Look - there's a segment of the Sanders vote who will not vote for anyone other than Sanders. We can not worry about them. Even Warren wasn't enough. I think that's fairly clear. But this segment is a clear minority of voters. Even large swaths of Sanders supporters have said, in exit polls, that defeating Trump is the primary objective - as it fucking should be.

So yes - a progressive candidate would make sense to help bring the party together. But these last few primaries have been overwhelming in their support for one candidate, and the magical youth vote unicorn is not coming out.

So while work should and must be done to not alienate Sanders voters, they also must be careful not to be TOO mindful of losing the far left. There's a general election to win. The fights over policy idealism can come in December.

 

[Irvine511]

Look - there's a segment of the Sanders vote who will not vote for anyone other than Sanders.

if they can be bothered to vote at all.

that's the story here -- all this Kool-Aid about non-voters, and they never materialized. it's a little sad, but also entirely predictable. non-voters gonna not vote.

 

[womanfish]

I think the statement from Sanders people was he was going to go through the 17th and then reassess. That's fair. He needs to do it on his own accord.

Also. We will have two choices in November. One that is a monster that lies at all times, is a racist, sexist, misogynist, xenophobe, sexual assaulting, no empathy, no skill at his job, embarrassment. The other is a likeable guy, that has true empathy for citizens, has created strong relationships with African Americans across the country, has fought for women's causes, gun reform, and will probably govern comparably with Obama, except stronger on climate and healthcare.

Not really seeing a tough choice here.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

It would be class if Sanders held out until the crowdless debate but instead used that time slot to concede and talk unity with that platform.