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Old 04-08-2020, 02:05 PM   #941
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There is a reason why Trump has gone to such lengths to get Sleepy Joe out of the race. It's why he's fanning the flames of Bernie with blaming Warren, for stating AOC and the Squad will never support Joe....BURISMA!!!

From the beginning there's been one candidate that their polling shows will beat Trump, and it's Biden. He is safe, he doesn't have EMAILS - BENGHAZI-PIZZAGATE-MURDERER!!! crap that hung over every Clinton move. People hated Clinton, and in the end that did her in.

Biden won the nomination without even trying. His campaign was DEAD. They had no groundwork in most of the upcoming states, and even in SC he thought he was done as the polls started to really shrink.

But people want stability and Joe provides that. People want Trump gone, they want to go back to a time where it wasn't so fucking mental. Joe is a bandaid, and it's why so important who his VP and cabinet will be.

Cause 2024 will still be the same shit from GOP, a Trump will most likely reach the nomination. Junior or Ivanka. I lean the latter since she's created millions and millions of jobs!!!

As sad as it is, Joe is our best shot. Not getting emotions involved, just by the data. He beats Trump.

And now I hope Obama can get off the sidelines
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Old 04-08-2020, 02:07 PM   #942
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I agree, and JD said he will vote, but for someone he trusts:





And yes I know that in reality voting for a 3rd party candidate is a vote for someone who in this country stands no chance of being elected. However, its still a person's right to do so.



I plan as of now to vote for Biden, just to get Trump out, but he's not a candidate I feel particularly passionate about and I have deep concerns over his obvious decline that is showing lately.

I can't fault someone for choosing not to vote for him (or any other candidate) for whatever their reasons may be.




I can if you’re going to walk around calling people like Barack Obama murderers as part of your health care plan push.
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Old 04-08-2020, 02:20 PM   #943
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I sadly tend to agree. I think a candidate who could eviscerate him in a debate would change that. I don't think Biden will be that guy, hope I'm wrong.
Yes like Elizabeth Warren could have. Like Kamala Harris could have.

Sadly I don't know how much debates even matter. Facts don't matter, intellect doesn't matter. Clown car circus shows impress lots of people these days.

How many debates did Trump win when he debated Hillary? He creeped up behind her like some sort of weirdo, and brought women into the audience that had accused Bill Clinton. That's winning a debate these days. So much winning, I'm tired of all this winning.
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Old 04-08-2020, 03:55 PM   #944
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you're stating this is like it's an obvious fact when it is merely your personal perception. jerry clearly doesn't see biden in this way, which makes what is a slam-dunk-no-brainer for you into something he can't do.

i think choosing not to vote is as valid of an option in an election as spoiling your ballot or writing in a candidate who has no hope. you don't have to like any of it, but like hewson said the thing about democracy is that people also have the choice not to participate. that's what people died for, not so that folks who don't want to vote for someone are required to hold their noses and do it.
It's not like I'm making it up out of thin air here. Biden is running on a platform, that is quite a lot more progressive than Obama ran on and how he was in office.

And again. Choosing not to vote, I could say is valid if maybe the Rep nom was Romney or something. But even then. This is about the COURTS. THE COURTS. THE COURTS. Above all. You can dislike the Dem candidate. Fine. But there will be irreparable damage done for a generation if we have Trump (or any other GOP candidate for that matter) for the next four years. Plain and simple.

And I'm sorry, but I asked a straight-forward question to Jerry and I don't really think he can give a serious answer to it.
Even if Biden was on par with Obama policy wise, but was, I don't know - sane, told the truth, stood up for regular working people, reinstated higher taxes on the wealthy and corps, nominated left leaning judges, improved healthcare a bit, got climate change policy passed, got some more gun reforms, got improvements in affordable college, and wasn't a psychopath, etc...
Then why the hell would you not want that person to at least hold the seat until a more progressive candidate runs the next time?

I'm sorry, but there is no valid reasoning, there is no excuse if you call yourself a liberal or progressive or whatever, to break the legs of the Judiciary and federal courts so that the time the next progressive candidate comes along and gets into office that they can actually DO something.
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Old 04-08-2020, 04:38 PM   #945
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I get tired of hearing men, in particular, white men, say they won't vote because their right to vote is something they've never had to fight for.

But regardless, I just want somebody to explain to me when not voting has actually solved anything in this country. All it does, from what I've seen, is lessen the chances of one's voice being heard, and makes it easier for politicians to stomp all over them, because hey, in their eyes, you didn't get out there and speak up, so who gives a shit what you want, right? I do agree that if young people want change, they need to get the fuck out there and actually vote in large numbers. It's true that some of the issues they face with voting are definitely due to voter suppression (look at the voter ID laws, for instance, some of which are intended to try and stifle the young vote), but some of it is also due to the fact that a lot of them just, for whatever reason, do not vote in large numbers, and that really, desperately needs to change.

I echo the sentiments of those who would've much preferred Elizabeth Warren being the nominee, and it pisses me off that our country can't get the fuck over itself and let a woman take charge of something for once. To say nothing of all the numerous younger candidates that were out there that we could've had, too, so we didn't have to worry about this race being between two old white guys yet again.

My big hope now is that Biden picks a REALLY good VP candidate and the Democrats organize to find ways to make sure everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, is able to vote (if they have to go state by state and find unconventional means to do so, go for it), and encourages them to actually vote in large numbers.
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Old 04-08-2020, 05:40 PM   #946
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https://twitter.com/mbaram/status/1247597527987339269
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Old 04-08-2020, 05:49 PM   #947
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I wish that were parody. I wonder what those “hoards” from Atlanta look like?
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Old 04-08-2020, 06:31 PM   #948
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Hoping I win.
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Old 04-08-2020, 06:38 PM   #949
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/li...?ocid=msedgdhp

Reports of Hillary seen leaving the Tripp residence carrying a bottle of strychnine have yet to be confirmed.
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Old 04-08-2020, 06:44 PM   #950
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I am definitely going to vote, and I'll vote in plenty of down ballot races, for any candidate worthy of a vote. Joe Biden isn't. I'll leave the presidential line blank if that's what's left for me.

I'm not doing this lightly, and I can't stand Trump. But Joe Biden will not help people. On every issue I have to ask myself if he's lying or just senile.

You can't make real change if the people in power believe they don't have to change. They need to understand this won't cut it any more. Whether the solution is for them to finally start offering the things people need (not want, NEED) is up to them at this point. I'll work tirelessly in local elections for candidates who stand for the things people need. And I'll work outside of electoral politics, which is not a solution at this time for real change.

America is a failed state, that much is clear. This pandemic proved what was obvious to many already. It's the reason many don't bother with the political process. Blaming voters for that isn't a way forward. Starting holding the people in power accountable. They are the ones telling you that you don't deserve healthcare, not me.

This is not about me. This is about everyone I know losing their jobs and going bankrupt. This is about people losing their healthcare. This is about America's murder of innocents both at home and abroad. Donald Trump and Joe Biden will help none of those people.
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Old 04-08-2020, 06:54 PM   #951
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Cause 2024 will still be the same shit from GOP, a Trump will most likely reach the nomination. Junior or Ivanka. I lean the latter since she's created millions and millions of jobs!!!

Assuming Biden wins in 2020, how likely is it that Trump Snr runs again?

And a question for Jerry: is there any amount of cooperation between Sanders and Biden going forward that would be enough for you to vote for Biden? Be it adoption of policy, endorsement, campaigning, a cabinet position for Bernie?
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Old 04-08-2020, 07:02 PM   #952
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No, because anything he'd say to try capitulating to the left would be full of shit.
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Old 04-08-2020, 07:03 PM   #953
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I am definitely going to vote, and I'll vote in plenty of down ballot races, for any candidate worthy of a vote. Joe Biden isn't. I'll leave the presidential line blank if that's what's left for me.

I'm not doing this lightly, and I can't stand Trump. But Joe Biden will not help people. On every issue I have to ask myself if he's lying or just senile.

You can't make real change if the people in power believe they don't have to change. They need to understand this won't cut it any more. Whether the solution is for them to finally start offering the things people need (not want, NEED) is up to them at this point. I'll work tirelessly in local elections for candidates who stand for the things people need. And I'll work outside of electoral politics, which is not a solution at this time for real change.

America is a failed state, that much is clear. This pandemic proved what was obvious to many already. It's the reason many don't bother with the political process. Blaming voters for that isn't a way forward. Starting holding the people in power accountable. They are the ones telling you that you don't deserve healthcare, not me.

This is not about me. This is about everyone I know losing their jobs and going bankrupt. This is about people losing their healthcare. This is about America's murder of innocents both at home and abroad. Donald Trump and Joe Biden will help none of those people.


We need liberal SCOTUS nominees.

It’s not about you.
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Old 04-08-2020, 07:36 PM   #954
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We need liberal SCOTUS nominees.

It’s not about you.

When you pivot to the “it’s not about you” line you’re implying his argument is that it’s all about him.

That’s not his argument.
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Old 04-08-2020, 08:04 PM   #955
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No, because anything he'd say to try capitulating to the left would be full of shit.
Would you have voted for Elizabeth Warren?
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Old 04-08-2020, 08:04 PM   #956
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When you pivot to the “it’s not about you” line you’re implying his argument is that it’s all about him.

That’s not his argument.



Yes it is. It’s total head-up-ass self-righteousness. You’re either voting for Ginsberg or you’re not. Politics is real and raw and lived.

If you want more people to get more healthcare then you will do everything you can to remove Donald Trump from the Oval Office. Voting is how that gets accomplished. If you refuse to do that in favor of some kind of moral posture, that’s vanity.
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Old 04-09-2020, 01:45 AM   #957
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Old 04-09-2020, 08:34 AM   #958
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Would you have voted for Elizabeth Warren?
I very much worry about the trust factor with her as well, because of how much back tracking she did on healthcare. But I'm pretty sure I would have, yes.

Speaking of healthcare, let's take a look at a plan to get excited about:

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Old 04-09-2020, 10:21 AM   #959
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So far Jerry's answers have shown that no one but Sanders "can be trusted". To me it just shows a cult following mentality.

And not voting for Biden absolutely means it's all about him. It's saying that instead of improving on the ACA, he's willing to have it wiped out completely for 21 million people that now use it. That's one example.

If Ginsberg is replaced by another right winger, and the federal courts are filled with Trump cult followers, then we could list dozens of important issues that will either be torn down or never see the light of day.

How is that not making it about him?
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Old 04-09-2020, 11:13 AM   #960
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This is not about me. This is about everyone I know losing their jobs and going bankrupt. This is about people losing their healthcare. This is about America's murder of innocents both at home and abroad. Donald Trump and Joe Biden will help none of those people.
If you guys aren't willing to listen and just want to keep pretending you didn't read what I said, there's not much more to discuss here.
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