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Old 04-08-2020, 12:34 PM   #921
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Suddenly voter suppression isn't an issue? Alright.
I'm sorry, 75-85% of your generation (depending on the state) was prevented from voting due to voter suppression?
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:37 PM   #922
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This is bullshit. I live in a swing state, and I'm not voting for Joe Biden, a senile old man who helped lead us into the Iraq War, supported corporations over labor, and who has been credibly accused of rape. He stands against almost everything I stand for. He's not worthy of my vote, and I don't trust him to help Americans out. My credibility would not exist if I made the choice to vote for Joe Biden. Biden will not make measurable change for people. He won't improve people's lives. Only organizing can do that now, around labor and issues and policies. Electoral politics has once again abandoned us, so we must find another way.


aren't you special and precious.

guess what: you're not. but your swing sate vote is.

use it for good. it's not about you.
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:40 PM   #923
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I'm sorry, 75-85% of your generation (depending on the state) was prevented from voting due to voter suppression?
Well, 100 percent of my generation was prevented in every state that has not had a primary to this point. Anyone who was not registered as a Democrat in a closed primary state, or was prevented from doing so due to arcane rules. Anyone who had their vote thrown out because of arcane rules. Anyone who lived in a district that was projected to go heavily Sanders (i.e. college towns) that saw the same GOP tactics of artificially creating massive wait times was thrown out. Anyone who couldn't go to the polls because they couldn't afford to miss work. Anyone who was so beaten down by all of the coverage about how Biden had locked things down and their memories of how completely void of impact the Obama years were in materially improving their lives. Anyone who didn't vote because there was a fucking pandemic, despite assurances from Biden that they would be fine if they were asymptomatic.

I mean, it comes down to this: do you need our votes or not? You can't have it both ways. Either you need them and you need to start actually listening to what we need, or you don't and you can't blame us when we don't show to vote. I'm sure they'll do it anyway, but it's a crock of shit.
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:40 PM   #924
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I'm sorry, 75-85% of your generation (depending on the state) was prevented from voting due to voter suppression?


all those suppressed Bernie votes in the D primaries in 2016 and 2020!
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:41 PM   #925
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aren't you special and precious.

guess what: you're not. but your swing sate vote is.

use it for good. it's not about you.
I'll vote for someone I trust to do good for people. It is most certainly not about me.
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:43 PM   #926
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I'll vote for someone I trust to do good for people. It is most certainly not about me.


your posts, including this one, indicate otherwise.

do you not realize that voting Donald Trump out of office will do the most possible good for people?
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:47 PM   #927
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So what happens if Joe Biden passes away before November?
If its before the convention then I assume the delegates select someone else, if its after does the VP choice become the top of the ticket?
Sad that I'd even ask such a thing, but I honestly don't expect him to complete a 4 year term and with the current health crisis he is obviously in a high risk category, and its something that needs to be considered.
Coupled with the video LN7 posted of him blathering along, I have genuine concerns.
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:50 PM   #928
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your posts, including this one, indicate otherwise.

do you not realize that voting Donald Trump out of office will do the most possible good for people?
Of course they do, because all you want to do is read what you want to read out of all of this. You long since stopped listening to anything I have to say. I don't care to carry this conversation on with you further because you are operating out of bad faith. I don't intend to devote further energy to discussing with someone who wants only to scold me for being some sort of brat. Go patronize someone else.
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:57 PM   #929
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US Politics XXI: Old Man 3-Way

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Of course they do, because all you want to do is read what you want to read out of all of this. You long since stopped listening to anything I have to say. I don't care to carry this conversation on with you further because you are operating out of bad faith. I don't intend to devote further energy to discussing with someone who wants only to scold me for being some sort of brat. Go patronize someone else.




Remember when for like a week when you thought Bernie was going to win and you started apologizing and being nice to people? I’m sad to realize that apparently wasn’t sincere.

Literally every vote counts in Pennsylvania. I wish I had a swing state vote. It’s beyond depressing to see one being thrown away.
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:14 PM   #930
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Originally Posted by Jerry Dunk View Post
This is bullshit. I live in a swing state, and I'm not voting for Joe Biden, a senile old man who helped lead us into the Iraq War, supported corporations over labor, and who has been credibly accused of rape. He stands against almost everything I stand for. He's not worthy of my vote, and I don't trust him to help Americans out. My credibility would not exist if I made the choice to vote for Joe Biden. Biden will not make measurable change for people. He won't improve people's lives. Only organizing can do that now, around labor and issues and policies. Electoral politics has once again abandoned us, so we must find another way.

As a matter of fact, Joe Biden has consistently told voters who pressed him on issues that mattered to them throughout the process to "go vote for someone else, then." That was his stock line. Put another way, I'm simply taking him up on that.

If you really wanted to get Donald Trump out of office, you would have rallied around candidates and policies that would have affected real change. But the Democrats did not do that.

Don't say we didn't warn you come November. Those who propped up Biden and the dying neoliberal wing of the Democratic Party are the ones responsible for what happens next, not the people who have been pointing out for years before this pandemic that universal healthcare was the only way to not have a depraved society.
So just a real simple question. Really think back on ALL that Trump has done these last 3.5 years. Really think about it. And then, knowing that no third party candidate is going to win the election, try to, as non-biased as possible, tell us why Trump would be better than having Biden for the next 4 years. Keeping in mind that this will be Trump, without regard for reelection, knowing impeachment is off the table, and has complete protection from the Senate and DOJ.

I would like to hear your specific thoughts on how Trump would be better.
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:25 PM   #931
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So what happens if Joe Biden passes away before November?
If its before the convention then I assume the delegates select someone else, if its after does the VP choice become the top of the ticket?
Sad that I'd even ask such a thing, but I honestly don't expect him to complete a 4 year term and with the current health crisis he is obviously in a high risk category, and its something that needs to be considered.
Coupled with the video LN7 posted of him blathering along, I have genuine concerns.
I am certain that Biden is senile. It's a horror that he's being nominated and anyone unwilling to recognize the state of his mental acuity is willfully blind at this point.

I think that the party elects a replacement (i.e. it doesn't go to the VP choice).
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:25 PM   #932
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Remember when for like a week when you thought Bernie was going to win and you started apologizing and being nice to people? I’m sad to realize that apparently wasn’t sincere.

Literally every vote counts in Pennsylvania. I wish I had a swing state vote. It’s beyond depressing to see one being thrown away.
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So just a real simple question. Really think back on ALL that Trump has done these last 3.5 years. Really think about it. And then, knowing that no third party candidate is going to win the election, try to, as non-biased as possible, tell us why Trump would be better than having Biden for the next 4 years. Keeping in mind that this will be Trump, without regard for reelection, knowing impeachment is off the table, and has complete protection from the Senate and DOJ.

I would like to hear your specific thoughts on how Trump would be better.
One of the things about our democracy is he gets to vote for whoever he wants and if he is dead set against Joe Biden for any reason and votes 3rd party or writes in Bernie, that's his prerogative. Not sure why folks have to give him such a hard time over it.
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:30 PM   #933
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Not to mention the fact that the Trump administration is still in court trying to completely dismantle the Affordable Care Act. Including protection for preexisting conditions, he's lying when he says otherwise. And not to mention, I hate to say it, but Trump appointing to the Supreme Court in a second term.

Absolute truth that this pandemic points out that Bernie does have very good ideas and ideals about health care. But Trump certainly doesn't, and I don't think Joe Biden wants to destroy the ACA. Yes the ACA needs lots of improvement.

The pandemic will have long range financial effects on this country, everyone knows that-except for Trump and those who believe his huge bounceback bullshit. So budget wise it's going to be really tough.
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:32 PM   #934
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I am certain that Biden is senile. It's a horror that he's being nominated and anyone unwilling to recognize the state of his mental acuity is willfully blind at this point.

I think that the party elects a replacement (i.e. it doesn't go to the VP choice).
Its scary.
I've mentioned before (and I think you have as well) that a maximum age for a candidate should be considered. We have a minimum age, so why not? It astounds me that our country seems to feel the only viable candidates (on either side) are septuagenarians. Obviously by no means does that mean a 70+ year old can't be effective, but we've seen one in action currently who isn't and I think Biden is losing his wits by the day.
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:37 PM   #935
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One of the things about our democracy is he gets to vote for whoever he wants and if he is dead set against Joe Biden for any reason and votes 3rd party or writes in Bernie, that's his prerogative. Not sure why folks have to give him such a hard time over it.
Well, possibly because we have a pathological lying, white nationalist, sexist, xenophobic, serial sexual assaulting, clinically narcissistic psychopath as the president, who has already dismantled the structure of checks and balances and is currently stripping any oversight roles that will stop future corrupt actions, who will be SO much worse when not constrained at all by reelection prospects, and poised to fill Supreme Court seats and hundred of more federal judge seats that will reshape our democracy and thwart any progressive cause for decades, even rolling back any progressive progress that has been made before now.

And the alternative is someone who will govern a bit more progressively than Obama.

I dunno. Maybe just this one time in our country's history, just maybe skip the third party protest vote. Just a thought.

But you know, I'd hate to give anyone a hard time when literally our future hangs in the balance.
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:39 PM   #936
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One of the things about our democracy is he gets to vote for whoever he wants and if he is dead set against Joe Biden for any reason and votes 3rd party or writes in Bernie, that's his prerogative. Not sure why folks have to give him such a hard time over it.


I think not voting is bullshit, especially if you complain a lot. Obviously, it’s someone’s choice, but I think it’s a shitty thing to do. We have one real tool, one that people died for. And you won’t use it?

That’s universal for me, btw. I’ve thought that forever. I’ve switched parties and voted tactically over the years in primaries because I think that my vote is the one truly quantifiable thing I can do.
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:45 PM   #937
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I really do hate to say it but I think this country is so far gone that Trump's going to win a second term no matter what. I know that's cynical and awful to say, but he's got more than enough people conned. And they'll just say economy wise that Trump was a victim of the pandemic. And that the pandemic was completely exaggerated and weaponized to defeat Trump. They're already saying that all over the internets.

They completely fall for his victimhood act. As my Mom used to say, he plays them like a fiddle.
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:53 PM   #938
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I think not voting is bullshit, especially if you complain a lot. Obviously, it’s someone’s choice, but I think it’s a shitty thing to do. We have one real tool, one that people died for. And you won’t use it?

That’s universal for me, btw. I’ve thought that forever. I’ve switched parties and voted tactically over the years in primaries because I think that my vote is the one truly quantifiable thing I can do.
I agree, and JD said he will vote, but for someone he trusts:
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I'll vote for someone I trust to do good for people. It is most certainly not about me.
And yes I know that in reality voting for a 3rd party candidate is a vote for someone who in this country stands no chance of being elected. However, its still a person's right to do so.

I plan as of now to vote for Biden, just to get Trump out, but he's not a candidate I feel particularly passionate about and I have deep concerns over his obvious decline that is showing lately.
I can't fault someone for choosing not to vote for him (or any other candidate) for whatever their reasons may be.
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:55 PM   #939
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I really do hate to say it but I think this country is so far gone that Trump's going to win a second term no matter what. I know that's cynical and awful to say, but he's got more than enough people conned. And they'll just say economy wise that Trump was a victim of the pandemic. And that the pandemic was completely exaggerated and weaponized to defeat Trump. They're already saying that all over the internets.

They completely fall for his victimhood act. As my Mom used to say, he plays them like a fiddle.
I sadly tend to agree. I think a candidate who could eviscerate him in a debate would change that. I don't think Biden will be that guy, hope I'm wrong.
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:59 PM   #940
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And the alternative is someone who will govern a bit more progressively than Obama.
you're stating this is like it's an obvious fact when it is merely your personal perception. jerry clearly doesn't see biden in this way, which makes what is a slam-dunk-no-brainer for you into something he can't do.

i think choosing not to vote is as valid of an option in an election as spoiling your ballot or writing in a candidate who has no hope. you don't have to like any of it, but like hewson said the thing about democracy is that people also have the choice not to participate. that's what people died for, not so that folks who don't want to vote for someone are required to hold their noses and do it.
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