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Old 03-20-2020, 04:02 PM   #561
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Airlines used a lot of bailout and tax cut money on stock buybacks. It's why they don't have any cash reserves. It's been a major talking point in relation to our current situation regarding bailouts.


Forget share buybacks.

These companies (airlines) should be nationalized and that’s that.
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Old 03-20-2020, 04:54 PM   #562
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It would be spectacular if we could stop railing the irresponsible airlines for being irresponsible and focus more on the impact that their failures would have.

Keep in mind, the only reason they fail is because we agree that the number one thing this society will not accept is failure to pay the lender.

To me, circumstances have changed, and putting a pause on debt and a pause on our society is important. Banks can take a fucking hit, we took a hit for them in 2008.
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Old 03-20-2020, 05:12 PM   #563
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Old 03-20-2020, 08:12 PM   #564
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It would be spectacular if we could stop railing the irresponsible airlines for being irresponsible and focus more on the impact that their failures would have.
The problem is that they are not the only industry that will almost certainly fail. Hospitality (hotels, restaurants, tourism-related businesses) are done. Oil & gas companies will need massive bailouts. And that's just to start.

There isn't enough $ to go around and you have to stabilize the economy - which means honouring the debt holders. It's not about banks taking "a fucking hit" - it's about all the other businesses that will be reliant on banks to have liquidity and access to credit facilities.
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Old 03-20-2020, 09:15 PM   #565
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The problem is that they are not the only industry that will almost certainly fail. Hospitality (hotels, restaurants, tourism-related businesses) are done. Oil & gas companies will need massive bailouts. And that's just to start.



There isn't enough $ to go around and you have to stabilize the economy - which means honouring the debt holders. It's not about banks taking "a fucking hit" - it's about all the other businesses that will be reliant on banks to have liquidity and access to credit facilities.


I never said that they’re the only industry. Come on now.

What I’m suggesting is that all of these industries freeze at once.
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Old 03-20-2020, 09:27 PM   #566
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What I’m suggesting is that all of these industries freeze at once.
If you don't honour their debtholders then those same debtholders (financial institutions) will not have liquidity available to assist businesses that are still running, but in a decreased capacity (due to supply chain issues, fewer people shopping, infrastructure projects being cancelled, etc, etc). So now you have not only crippled the industries that are bound to fail, but ones that wouldn't be failing but for their lack of access to credit.

A separate conversation should be had about what conditions and covenants should be placed on any industry or business that is the recipient of a bailout. Elizabeth Warren is right about this - it must be comprehensive and stringent so that you don't get the ultra wealthy stuffing their pockets yet again when this is all over.
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Old 03-20-2020, 09:40 PM   #567
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If you don't honour their debtholders then those same debtholders (financial institutions) will not have liquidity available to assist businesses that are still running, but in a decreased capacity (due to supply chain issues, fewer people shopping, infrastructure projects being cancelled, etc, etc). So now you have not only crippled the industries that are bound to fail, but ones that wouldn't be failing but for their lack of access to credit.



A separate conversation should be had about what conditions and covenants should be placed on any industry or business that is the recipient of a bailout. Elizabeth Warren is right about this - it must be comprehensive and stringent so that you don't get the ultra wealthy stuffing their pockets yet again when this is all over.


Assist businesses that are still running? Point me to a financial institution that is “assisting” anyone right now without gain.

Most of the current financial institutions are in great health right now and can take a hit. My credit card company gave me the same bullshit email that the airlines gave me about their covid response, reminding me that I can pay my bill online.

They should be telling me that they’ve reduced interest on my credit card to 2% as a mercy for emergency times, because yes, they can survive without claiming 25% on people who don’t pay in the face of a pandemic. Not that I currently can’t, but the notion of “paying up or else” will cause numerous industries to fail in a domino effect.
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Old 03-20-2020, 10:21 PM   #568
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Assist businesses that are still running? Point me to a financial institution that is “assisting” anyone right now without gain.

Most of the current financial institutions are in great health right now and can take a hit. My credit card company gave me the same bullshit email that the airlines gave me about their covid response, reminding me that I can pay my bill online.

They should be telling me that they’ve reduced interest on my credit card to 2% as a mercy for emergency times, because yes, they can survive without claiming 25% on people who don’t pay in the face of a pandemic. Not that I currently can’t, but the notion of “paying up or else” will cause numerous industries to fail in a domino effect.
I don't like the banks either and I don't think they should be enriching themselves while everyone suffers. But they do need to borrow $ - they have a funding cost and the markets are going wild so their short-term borrowing costs are very high right now. Something to consider.

My guess is that the governments will forbid the banks from paying a dividend as a start.
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Old 03-21-2020, 10:59 AM   #569
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Forget share buybacks.

These companies (airlines) should be nationalized and that’s that.
It seemed before deregulation of the Arline's in the eary 80's we had more carriers and more competition. After de reg we lost TWA, Braniff, Pan Am, Conti, N Eastern etc etc. Now we really only have Delta, American and united. (yeah the lost cost SE, JB etc) But we certainly saw a lot of consolidation in the industry.
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Old 03-21-2020, 11:01 AM   #570
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Assist businesses that are still running? Point me to a financial institution that is “assisting” anyone right now without gain.

Most of the current financial institutions are in great health right now and can take a hit. My credit card company gave me the same bullshit email that the airlines gave me about their covid response, reminding me that I can pay my bill online.

They should be telling me that they’ve reduced interest on my credit card to 2% as a mercy for emergency times, because yes, they can survive without claiming 25% on people who don’t pay in the face of a pandemic. Not that I currently can’t, but the notion of “paying up or else” will cause numerous industries to fail in a domino effect.
\\

I agree, as I stated in the past big business can crush you just as bad is big government. There has to be a balance. But a balance calls for altruism and we ain't getting any of that.
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Old 03-21-2020, 01:17 PM   #571
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leadership

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Old 03-21-2020, 03:17 PM   #572
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After this is all over, when there is a vaccine and the world slowly normalizes, Americans are going to have to take a long hard look at who the hell they are voting for.

Even now, go on any conservative blog, forum, Reddit etc - they are all brainwashed, they think this is invented, their personal freedom is under attack from the deep state, the democrats are the enemy etc. I simply don’t see how the country can continue to function as a single entity with this type of disparity of belief and behaviour. Just wait until the red states are hit hard - Florida will be decimated by this thing.
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Old 03-21-2020, 03:35 PM   #573
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This assumes that we return to a republic / democracy in 2020


https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/sta...164244994?s=21

Trump and the GOP will use this as a means to hold onto power.

Trump may not be able to cancel an election, but States can.
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Old 03-21-2020, 03:54 PM   #574
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After this is all over, when there is a vaccine and the world slowly normalizes, Americans are going to have to take a long hard look at who the hell they are voting for.

Even now, go on any conservative blog, forum, Reddit etc - they are all brainwashed, they think this is invented, their personal freedom is under attack from the deep state, the democrats are the enemy etc. I simply don’t see how the country can continue to function as a single entity with this type of disparity of belief and behaviour. Just wait until the red states are hit hard - Florida will be decimated by this thing.

Florida is as purple of a state as they come.
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Old 03-21-2020, 04:59 PM   #575
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After this is all over, when there is a vaccine and the world slowly normalizes, Americans are going to have to take a long hard look at who the hell they are voting for.

Even now, go on any conservative blog, forum, Reddit etc - they are all brainwashed, they think this is invented, their personal freedom is under attack from the deep state, the democrats are the enemy etc. I simply don’t see how the country can continue to function as a single entity with this type of disparity of belief and behaviour. Just wait until the red states are hit hard - Florida will be decimated by this thing.
Yeah so are the far left- They are just as bad
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Old 03-21-2020, 05:00 PM   #576
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Florida is as purple of a state as they come.
Trump is up in Florida
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Old 03-21-2020, 05:18 PM   #577
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Trump is up in Florida


That’s not what makes a state red or blue.
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Old 03-21-2020, 05:48 PM   #578
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God we suck so bad in this country

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Old 03-21-2020, 06:02 PM   #579
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Old 03-21-2020, 06:19 PM   #580
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