US POLITICS XX: Stuck In a Caucus You Can't Get Out Of

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I'm fairly sure that this will NOT be the outcome of SC. But hypothetically, if the finish was

Biden
Steyer
Sanders

I don't know, it's all so mixed up right now. The only outcome I still see is 3 to 4 moderates and Bernie on Super Tuesday, pretty much ensuring Sanders walks away with it.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
The premise of the article is also false - i.e. "no other Democrats can beat him at this point." Sanders is likely the nominee, but it's by no means a guarantee. There's another debate, South Carolina and Super Tuesday left in the next 20 days. After that? If Sanders is the clear run away winner? Sure. But the knives will be out this week. He could be a run away nominee. Entirely possible. Probably probable. He could also be Tsongas or Edwards.

It also calls Bernie a moderate, which is silly.

It mocks Bloomberg for not being a Democrat, while ignoring that Bernie isn't a Democrat.

It oversimplifies the issues over opposition to Bernie's ideas, as is often the case when it comes to Bernie. Nobody is opposing the overwhelming majority of what he's selling - merely offering alternatives that might actually have a snowball's chance in hell of becoming law. Oh, and, ya know, saying how'd they pay for it.
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this is much better. refute the argument itself. saying "the author is a socialist so this article is bad" and using that to throw it out wholesale is dumb and closed-minded.
 
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womanfish said:
I'm fairly sure that this will NOT be the outcome of SC. But hypothetically, if the finish was

Biden
Steyer
Sanders

I don't know, it's all so mixed up right now. The only outcome I still see is 3 to 4 moderates and Bernie on Super Tuesday, pretty much ensuring Sanders walks away with it.
Click to expand...
I have to imagine Sanders will bump in front of Steyer for the 2 slot. It still looks like Biden will take South Carolina baring a disastrous debate.

The Steyer numbers still boggle the mind.
 
DaveC said:
this is much better. refute the argument itself. saying "the author is a socialist so this article is bad" and using that to throw it out wholesale is dumb and closed-minded.
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If you knew as much about the author as I do, you’d understand why it should be taken with a grain of salt.
 
DaveC said:
this is much better. refute the argument itself. saying "the author is a socialist so this article is bad" and using that to throw it out wholesale is dumb and closed-minded.
Click to expand...
Sure. But that the guy literally wrote the book on why everyone should be a socialist and then wrote a Sanders puff piece are not unrelated.
 
so, if you write a book about something, then you can't go on to credibly write an article about something tangentially related. very cool and sensible.
 
Irvine511 said:
It’s about viewing coverage that is somehow less than favorable as part of a conspiracy to team up against one candidate or another in order to bring them down for amorphous reasons. Reading conspiracy into journalism — even though we all know that journalism is, like anything else, flawed and human — when we don’t like what or how something is reported is I think one of the worst developments of the last 20-30 years. The right wing started this in the 1990s with “the liberal media” charge, and it’s sort of reached its entropic endpoint with “fake news.” And now, the left is starting to do the same.

Sure, lots of cricticism is valid. Sure, anchors and hosts who are themsleves likely highly educated members of an urban elite class who are also likely highly educated in political science are probably going to be slower to embrace the new “nothing matters” mindset because the reason they are in these professions and studied these subjects is because they probably very strongly do think that something matters.

Just please don’t “fake news” everything.

This is disinformation. This is how it works. Getting you to believe that truth can’t be known so you disengage and think they’re all the same and all corrupt ... and that only one person knows the truth.
Click to expand...

Forgive me if you've seen this already. I find it to be a pretty disturbing survey of how widespread the disinformation is.

The Trevor Noah excerpt is particularly disgusting in how it takes something out of context to mean the opposite:

 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
I have to imagine Sanders will bump in front of Steyer for the 2 slot. It still looks like Biden will take South Carolina baring a disastrous debate.

The Steyer numbers still boggle the mind.
Click to expand...

That's my hunch as well. Obviously Steyer did much worse in NV than his poll numbers leading up. But again, the caucus system played a large part in that I think.

But if Bernie does somehow get third. I would think that would be a bit concerning and put a hit in the narrative coming out of NV. But I still don't see it doing much to his trajectory or success in Super Tuesday.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
The premise of the article is also false - i.e. "no other Democrats can beat him at this point." Sanders is likely the nominee, but it's by no means a guarantee. There's another debate, South Carolina and Super Tuesday left in the next 20 days. After that? If Sanders is the clear run away winner? Sure. But the knives will be out this week. He could be a run away nominee. Entirely possible. Probably probable. He could also be Tsongas or Edwards.

It also calls Bernie a moderate, which is silly.

It mocks Bloomberg for not being a Democrat, while ignoring that Bernie isn't a Democrat.

It oversimplifies the issues over opposition to Bernie's ideas, as is often the case when it comes to Bernie. Nobody is opposing the overwhelming majority of what he's selling - merely offering alternatives that might actually have a snowball's chance in hell of becoming law. Oh, and, ya know, saying how'd they pay for it.
Click to expand...



The notion that Bernie “isn’t a Democrat” is disgusting tribalism. We have two parties that have any realistic chance of election. One on the left and one on the right.

Bernie Sanders has always been on the left.

Michael Bloomberg legitimately was on the right. For a long time. He’s danced around the middle, going from middle left to middle right and back again just in time for the election.

Sorry, but Bernie’s lack of commitment to a political party isn’t justification for shaming him for “not being a democrat.”
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
The notion that Bernie “isn’t a Democrat” is disgusting tribalism. We have two parties that have any realistic chance of election. One on the left and one on the right.

Bernie Sanders has always been on the left.

Michael Bloomberg legitimately was on the right. For a long time. He’s danced around the middle, going from middle left to middle right and back again just in time for the election.

Sorry, but Bernie’s lack of commitment to a political party isn’t justification for shaming him for “not being a democrat.”
Click to expand...

I sort of agree. But I think there's a bigger picture here to take into account with Sanders. To many longterm (and proud of it) Dems, it can seem that Bernie is both using the Dem party name while simultaneously trashing it.
There's a simple solution here. He could just cut that shit out. I'm all for Sanders who has caucused with the Dems his whole career, and is obviously on the left, being the Dem nominee. Just don't say that you're fighting against them and they rig everything against you.

It also doesn't help when he runs as a Dem presidential candidate, but then goes back to Independent for his Senate runs.

Bloomberg has been a Republican and Independent, but I think like many sane, reasonable people has moved to being a Dem because of Trump. And he doesn't come into the primaries disparaging the Dem party, many of it's voters, and the DNC. In fact he is pouring his support into it.
 
I agree that there’s reason for democrats from the party to not like Sanders utilization of their establishment. That’s all fair, but it’s unfair to compare Bloomberg to Sanders re: who is more of a democrat. Sanders is, hands down. Unless being a democrat is less about ideology and more about commitment to the party - in which case, that’s tribalism.
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
I agree that there’s reason for democrats from the party to not like Sanders utilization of their establishment. That’s all fair, but it’s unfair to compare Bloomberg to Sanders re: who is more of a democrat. Sanders is, hands down. Unless being a democrat is less about ideology and more about commitment to the party - in which case, that’s tribalism.
Click to expand...

There we can agree. I think both are a bit disingenuous to me. Obviously Bernie has been more aligned with liberal views for decades with the Dems.
I think Bloomberg is sorta like. A republican that believes and supports some important liberal causes.

Either way, I wouldn't call Bloomberg more of Democrat than Bernie. And in the end, just wish Bernie would see the bigger picture of where he's headed. This isn't fighting Hillary tooth and nail trying to scrape up every last thing to possibly get the nomination.
Now the nomination is his to lose. So at this point. Cut out the "We're scaring the establishment" bullshit. Cause a very large majority of the 65 million that voted for Clinton, don't look kindly on it.

Sanders will probably get the votes of about 15 million people in the primary race. So there's 50 million more he needs to be taking into account. He has to learn to shift out of this narrative.
 
In South Carolina.

Steyer comes in at 3

Biden probably comes in first with Sanders close behind

If Sanders edges out Biden, he should give up.

I only expect Biden to win about one third of the primaries he had locked up awhile back
Sanders will benefit from Steyer's and even more so Bloomberg's money fueled egos.

Without their hundreds of millions eroding Biden's support these primaries would look a lot different.

If the 600 - 700 million had been spend on Senate campaigns it would have a lot more impact.

Steyer's need to impeach campaign" seems like it could have been calculated to launch his presidential campaign. These billionaire's egos put a lot of wind in Sanders sails.
 
lazarus said:
Forgive me if you've seen this already. I find it to be a pretty disturbing survey of how widespread the disinformation is.
Click to expand...



i don't think this qualifies as disinformation -- i think this is an assemblage of punditry and isn't masquerading as "the news." it's people giving their opinion (i.e., Jennifer Rubin is a WaPo columnist who was a Romney Republican and is now a never-Trumper but is freaked out by Bernie Sanders and she's on TV a lot, which is her job) and it's cut together in such a way as to suggest there's some sort of corporate media wall trying to shut the True Bernie out. it's literally as slanted as it's suggesting the subjects of it's critique are.

it wouldn't be hard to stitch together something that plays as it's total opposite drawing from the same news sources.
 
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womanfish said:
Yikes.
DOW down 1,000 points.

I think it's Obama's fault. Or Bernie's. We'll see what Lord Trump says.
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Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!

4:42 PM · Feb 24, 2020·Twitter for iPhone


Yeah, who cares about all those dead people and the looming threat here.
 
I just don’t understand what Michael Bloomberg is doing.

How egotistical must that man be to think he can be nominated at this point? He’s literally burning cash in front of America and it’s too late. The irony behind all of this is it plays so freaking well for Bernie Sanders. To date, this is still Sanders vs. Biden. People seem to think Biden is done with no hope but the reality is that Biden is the only one with the infrastructure to campaign his way through the nation, even with the supposed cash issue he has. Odds are if it’s not Sanders, it’s still Biden. Bloomberg is actually just eating into that share, dividing any Sanders opposition (along with the rest of them) and quite literally being the one pacent of the one pacent... literally standing on a pedestal in front of Sanders to be made an example of.

Alls I’m saying is... Bloomberg is a gift wrapped with a bow made out to Bernie.
 
That’s because people are too stupid to realize a politician finds it hard to push disavow interference in their favor. Caring Stein or Gabbard or Trump an “asset” because Russia prefers Trump to win is stupid. Don’t undermine interference, here or there.
 
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