US POLITICS XX: Stuck In a Caucus You Can't Get Out Of - Page 35 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-02-2020, 08:22 PM   #681
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,469
Local Time: 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Of course today I’m hearing she’s the establishment too so who knows.



This is really the heart of it. I’m sure I’m annoying. But my main point is that, as with much of the Trump base, for SOME Sanders folks, literally EVERYTHING is viewed through a conspiratorial lens of establishment vs Bernie. It’s what fucking sucks about the internet, and it’s also how disinformation works — nothing is objective, there’s always truth behind “truth,” and it’s all up for demagoguery.

Obviously it’s not LN7. But to think that this mindset hasn’t become one of the top 3-4 defining characteristics of the Sanders campaign — whether he likes it or not — is delusional.
__________________

Irvine511 is online now  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:31 PM   #682
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,918
Local Time: 04:41 PM
I am admittedly bitter, but what really riles me up is that the woman who in my view is the most intelligent candidate (Mayor Pete being the only one in the same stratosphere IMO), with progressive views and policies, though also a sensible dose of pragmatism, was destroyed because she dared (!) suggest a 3-year-transition to M4A and was "dumb" enough to actually do the math and own it. So to hell with her, she's the establishment sell out with a giant ego and a liar and just won't bow out of this race like she is supposed to!

And what would be the most hilarious part of this, if it weren't so sad, is that thee absolute inflexibility of the far left to even consider anyone beyond Sanders may very well result in a Joe freaking Biden candidacy - a senile old man without a single creative or progressive idea, who still thinks that working with the current crop of Republicans is where we need to be and whose entire run would be considered a joke if we were living in any other time.

Mind boggling.
__________________

anitram is offline  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:33 PM   #683
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 12:41 PM
I am not so sure we can assume where anyone's supporters will go, even with the candidate endorsing someone.

Looking back at 2016 many were saying Trump was only winning with 30-35 % because the other candidates were splitting the vote. The last few primaries with most of the others out, Trump still won. A lot of Pete's supporters already decided to take a pass on Biden even though they have been told Biden is the only real option. Steyer, Pete can be considered outsiders, anyone that wants an outsider is not likely to vote for Biden.

Of course tomorrow night we may have a lot more clarity, their will also be some exit polling.
deep is offline  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:44 PM   #684
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 12:41 PM
I have a question, when they go on about the costs on M4A, how are they calculating it?


I assume they are using the costs we are currently paying.


A basic blood test can costs $50 or $2000. Same test.

Colonoscopy $1200 or $8000- $9000.


I get a prescription shipped from Canada for 0.23 per tablet, about $30.00 a month. If I had insurance my co-pay might be $25.00. But the costs to about $350 a month.

People may not complain about the $25 co-pay. But the $350 paid to the drug company is disgusting for a generic tablet.

So if the U S has 11 times the population of Canada are they projecting the costs to be 11 times the cost of Canada's health care?
deep is offline  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:46 PM   #685
ONE
love, blood, life
 
iron yuppie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 10,576
Local Time: 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
I am admittedly bitter, but what really riles me up is that the woman who in my view is the most intelligent candidate (Mayor Pete being the only one in the same stratosphere IMO), with progressive views and policies, though also a sensible dose of pragmatism, was destroyed because she dared (!) suggest a 3-year-transition to M4A and was "dumb" enough to actually do the math and own it. So to hell with her, she's the establishment sell out with a giant ego and a liar and just won't bow out of this race like she is supposed to!

And what would be the most hilarious part of this, if it weren't so sad, is that thee absolute inflexibility of the far left to even consider anyone beyond Sanders may very well result in a Joe freaking Biden candidacy - a senile old man without a single creative or progressive idea, who still thinks that working with the current crop of Republicans is where we need to be and whose entire run would be considered a joke if we were living in any other time.

Mind boggling.

Warren was far and away my favorite candidate as well, easily the most qualified and sensible in the race IMO. What has happened to her is a travesty for many of the reasons you note. I'm not going to blame any one candidate's support group, but rather just that the country as a whole is not yet ready to accept a female president, which is also depressing.
iron yuppie is online now  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:54 PM   #686
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,469
Local Time: 04:41 PM
I also don’t understand why we’ve spent a primary arguing over policy differences in legislation that is never going to become law to begin with.
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:56 PM   #687
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 12:41 PM
I guess this link sheds some light on costs.


https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/...es/#item-start

It says Canada spends about 47% as much as the U S.

Of course more people are covered in Canada.



One big problem with Health Care politics in the U S is that everyone in the industry is paid much more than almost anyplace else.
deep is offline  
Old 03-02-2020, 09:01 PM   #688
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
I also don’t understand why we’ve spent a primary arguing over policy differences in legislation that is never going to become law to begin with.
This is so very true.

A good percentage of Sanders voters may accept this and just want to shift the discussion that direction knowing it will not go completely there.
deep is offline  
Old 03-02-2020, 09:02 PM   #689
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 28,170
Local Time: 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron yuppie View Post
Warren was far and away my favorite candidate as well, easily the most qualified and sensible in the race IMO. What has happened to her is a travesty for many of the reasons you note. I'm not going to blame any one candidate's support group, but rather just that the country as a whole is not yet ready to accept a female president, which is also depressing.
I completely agree with you that the country as a whole is not yet ready to accept a female President (despite Hillary winning the popular vote), and for me that is beyond depressing. The double standard for behavior, personality traits, and all kinds of other traits and issues is very alive and well. Seen constantly with all the Democratic candidates this election season.
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 03-02-2020, 09:03 PM   #690
Blue Crack Addict
 
mikal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Black Lodge
Posts: 27,081
Local Time: 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
Buttigieg
Klobuchar
Beto
Harry Reid

All in for Biden.

Going to be a lot of pressure on Bloomberg to make a move tonight.
Establishment!!11
mikal is offline  
Old 03-02-2020, 09:03 PM   #691
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,918
Local Time: 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
I guess this link sheds some light on costs.


https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/...es/#item-start

It says Canada spends about 47% as much as the U S.

Of course more people are covered in Canada.
We also pay more in income taxes - the largest single component of our income taxes goes to healthcare expenses.

But don't forget the absolute hysterical months of hounding Elizabeth Warren (from idiots like Chris Matthews) demanding that she publicly admit that people's taxes are going up. When she explained that total costs would be down, that was branded as dishonest.

But if you are a working person and have a budget, your funds are always fungible - what does it matter that your taxes are going up by $200 if your premium goes down by $400?

Are people really so stupid as to not be able to grasp that?
anitram is offline  
Old 03-02-2020, 09:06 PM   #692
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 12:41 PM
its funny, there are always some policies with every candidate that I like, Warren had policies I agreed with and in Oct 2019 when she was polling over 50%, I told myself if she got elected there would some policies I could be happy with.
deep is offline  
Old 03-02-2020, 09:07 PM   #693
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 12:41 PM
Warren still has a job today.

Chris Matthews does not.
deep is offline  
Old 03-02-2020, 09:27 PM   #694
The Fly
 
Magnus Maximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 194
Local Time: 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewson View Post
I don't know about decades.
If either Uncle Joe or Crazy Bernie pick a female VP and end up beating Orange Donnie then we're probably a year and a half or so from our first female President.

It’s funny because it’s true. Maybe that’s Amy Ks gambit.
Magnus Maximus is offline  
Old 03-02-2020, 09:35 PM   #695
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 12:41 PM
a lot can happen between now and the convention in July. But I still think the most likely VP pick for either Sanders or Biden is Kamala Harris.
deep is offline  
Old 03-02-2020, 09:52 PM   #696
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 20,722
Local Time: 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron yuppie View Post
Warren was far and away my favorite candidate as well, easily the most qualified and sensible in the race IMO. What has happened to her is a travesty for many of the reasons you note. I'm not going to blame any one candidate's support group, but rather just that the country as a whole is not yet ready to accept a female president, which is also depressing.
Sad but true. Which is beyond maddening. People need to get the hell over themselves on this issue already.

Seriously, if Biden or Sanders win the nomination, they're getting my vote, no question. But when I think about how diverse this field started out, and see that it ultimately whittled down to us likely choosing between two old white men again...yeah. It's rather sad. Both because I think those candidates that have since dropped out all had very interesting individual visions for the future, and also because having somebody like Warren or Harris or Buttigieg or Castro or so forth would've made for one hell of a message to send to Trump, his supporters, and their racist/sexist/xenophobic/etc. worldview.
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 03-03-2020, 12:37 AM   #697
Blue Crack Addict
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 18,455
Local Time: 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
I guess this link sheds some light on costs.


https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/...es/#item-start

It says Canada spends about 47% as much as the U S.

Of course more people are covered in Canada.



One big problem with Health Care politics in the U S is that everyone in the industry is paid much more than almost anyplace else.


I’m not sure it’s fair to jump right at the employees making more. That’s like pointing the finger at the rich doctors in the hospitals, neglecting the fact that they are only a small sum of where the swaths of money go. The hospital companies and the insurance companies aren’t spending the majority of their earnings on their entire employee base.
LuckyNumber7 is online now  
Old 03-03-2020, 07:46 AM   #698
Blue Crack Addict
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 18,455
Local Time: 04:41 PM
Gotta say, Liz is looking real awkward. Can’t blame her for not following suit but at the same time she is now causing that side of the party to split their own vote versus a unified Biden wing. Lot of states polled, and the ones you expect to go for Biden now are (40-25-15 seems to be a common theme).
LuckyNumber7 is online now  
Old 03-03-2020, 08:01 AM   #699
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 28,170
Local Time: 04:41 PM
Buh bye Chris Matthews, you've always had a creepy vibe. Can only imagine what's left to be revealed.
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 03-03-2020, 08:26 AM   #700
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,469
Local Time: 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
Gotta say, Liz is looking real awkward. Can’t blame her for not following suit but at the same time she is now causing that side of the party to split their own vote versus a unified Biden wing. Lot of states polled, and the ones you expect to go for Biden now are (40-25-15 seems to be a common theme).


It’s interesting how she’s the unanimous choice of my highest educated friends — I think we all tend to want people who we relate to culturally. She is absolutely a product of academia, much like Obama. I’m very sorry that isn’t translating into votes. I agreed with the earlier comment that she and Pete are the smartest people on the stage — there’s no question they have the biggest intellectual capacities. But presidenting — and leadership in general — isn’t about being the smartest person in the room, it’s about getting the smartest people in the room to do what you want them to do.

So here we are. If I were voting today, I’d still probably vote Warren, but my head tells me that, today, Biden has the best chance against Trump, especially with a good VP.

A good friend who lives in the immediate Philly ‘burbs — one of those liberal arts advanced degree friends — said that the Trump voter in her morning running group would vote for Biden over Trump. And so there, in an anecdote, is how I think this is won. Picking off the middle and the Trump voters who are queasy after 4 years of batshit tweets who also aren’t so rich and mercenary that they vote however their stocks tell them to vote.
__________________

Irvine511 is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×