US POLITICS XX: Stuck In a Caucus You Can't Get Out Of

[womanfish]

Warren should stay in the Senate if she doesn't become president. Massachusetts has a Republican governor. She becomes VP, or takes a cabinet position, it's handing her seat to the GOP, and we need every seat we can get.

It shouldn't be Nina Turner. I don't mind her generally, but I don't think she has the discipline to campaign as a VP candidate. Like Anitram said, she's already said some unfortunate things recently.

Thinking outside the box - what about Yang?

Sorry, but there really is no question it has to be a woman. I could possibly see Castro as a long shot since the Latino outreach could be put into overdrive.
But he needs a woman on the ticket. And I still think that a more moderate one could very well help Bernie still do ok in the suburbs

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Warren should stay in the Senate if she doesn't become president. Massachusetts has a Republican governor. She becomes VP, or takes a cabinet position, it's handing her seat to the GOP, and we need every seat we can get.



It shouldn't be Nina Turner. I don't mind her generally, but I don't think she has the discipline to campaign as a VP candidate. Like Anitram said, she's already said some unfortunate things recently.



Thinking outside the box - what about Yang?

I disagree with the idea that Massachusetts would replace Warren’s seat with a republican. In fact, I think that’s what makes her such a good pick to pluck from the senate. Her seat is easily replaceable by someone on the left.

Every republican in Massachusetts is a RINO. The long list of republican governors (Weld, Celucci, Romney, Patrick) have (or would) oppose Donald Trump. They’re a different breed of republicans. Massachusetts is still a liberal state.

 

[Irvine511]

https://news.gallup.com/poll/286280/trump-job-approval-steady.aspx

49% approval. A net positive approval over disapproval.

43% of independents approve of Trump (no word on how many of those are solid independent conservatives).

63% of U.S. adults rate current economic conditions as either excellent or good. Just 9% rate them as poor.

By 61% to 33%, Americans say the economy is getting better rather than worse


But yes - a socialist who wants to burn down capitalism is going to swing the tide away form a literal caricature of the worst parts of capitalism.

Oh, and he's going to cheat. Hard.

This has to be understood. It can’t be repeated enough. This is the challenge ahead of us.

I am not confident.

I want to be wrong.

 

[namkcuR]

I disagree with the idea that Massachusetts would replace Warren’s seat with a republican. In fact, I think that’s what makes her such a good pick to pluck from the senate. Her seat is easily replaceable by someone on the left.

Every republican in Massachusetts is a RINO. The long list of republican governors (Weld, Celucci, Romney, Patrick) have (or would) oppose Donald Trump. They’re a different breed of republicans. Massachusetts is still a liberal state.

Fair point, but I just have a hard time trusting anyone with an R next to his/her name at this point. Sad, but that's where we are.

Also, since when is Deval Patrick a Republican?

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Fair point, but I just have a hard time trusting anyone with an R next to his/her name at this point. Sad, but that's where we are.



Also, since when is Deval Patrick a Republican?

I meant Baker, sorry

 

[Popmartijn]

I disagree with the idea that Massachusetts would replace Warren’s seat with a republican. In fact, I think that’s what makes her such a good pick to pluck from the senate. Her seat is easily replaceable by someone on the left.

Don't think too easily that her seat is replaceable by someone on the left. The Republican she replaced (Scott Brown) was elected because the Democrats had a very weak candidate who thought she would easily win the election for that seat.
That said, under Massachusetts law a special election has to be held with 150 days or so. Thus, the governor can only appoint a Republican for a little while before there is an election. So the consequences may be minimal.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Is there a reason the House hasn’t subpoena Bolton? Or held more open hearings on staff firings ?

It’s like the democrats assume election will be business as usual.

Their failure to do their basic duties of office is a reason we are where we are

They're bad at their jobs?

 

[dazzledbylight]

https://twitter.com/FaceTheNation/status/1231335345771417600?s=19

The Purge of the last two weeks will ensure that the entire force of the federal government will squash all news of wrong doing by the administration.

But it's also going to be used to launch investigations and pursue right wing conspiracy theories about whomever the Democratic nominee is.


We've already lost.

Yep. I've been saying it for about a week now. Trump is going to be reelected for 2 reasons

1. Bernie
2. He's going to cheat again right out in the open and get away with it.

And the government and courts are set up for a Trump “loss” as well.

Quotes because he will fight to stay in power. Russia helping the Sanders campaign is brilliant.

It gives the Trump government the number one excuse to call any Democratic win RIGGED or invalid.

Oh, man, i hope that this just you people on your worst days!


"Hey. Let's show a little optimism here", Han Solo

"But I will never faint, I will never faint
They laugh and they expect me to faint
But I will never faint
I refuse to lose, I refuse to fall down"
patti smith

"It ain't over, till it's over"
yogi berra


Historians often say - everything stays the same (much more than not) UNTIL it changes.

Yes, it does look very tough right now , but I'm not giving up. I will help to give that cruel, half-wit the fight of his life.

They want us to feel depressed, and defeated - so that we don't at least give it all we can to try to defeat him.

Fair point, but I just have a hard time trusting anyone with an R next to his/her name at this point. Sad, but that's where we are.

Also, since when is Deval Patrick a Republican?

He seems to be a Democrat.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Don't think too easily that her seat is replaceable by someone on the left. The Republican she replaced (Scott Brown) was elected because the Democrats had a very weak candidate who thought she would easily win the election for that seat.

That said, under Massachusetts law a special election has to be held with 150 days or so. Thus, the governor can only appoint a Republican for a little while before there is an election. So the consequences may be minimal.

Scott Brown is a pro-choice gay loving RINO who won a snap election. He’s just like the other names I mentioned. Sure, he folded in with the Trump admin, but rest assured that he wouldn’t win his seat on that platform. Prior to Brown, Massachusetts didn’t have a red Senator since Ed Brooke in 1972 - doing some research here... first black man elected to the senate, a co-author of the Civil Rights Act.

Massachusetts is liberal. The absolute worst possible thing that could happen to a senate seat in that state is a RINO.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I highly doubt Trump will tab Warren for a cabinet post so I'm guessing she stays as senator next year.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I highly doubt Trump will tab Warren for a cabinet post so I'm guessing she stays as senator next year.

While I share your worries regarding his re-election, I do think that doing your part in this case is biting your tongue when you feel the need to express how hopeless we are.

Just remember that your lack of confidence is contagious, and while nobody really cares about what you’re saying on some old U2 web forum, it’s everyone’s responsibility to encourage others to want to vote. Fake a smile, avert disaster.

 

[Irvine511]

While I share your worries regarding his re-election, I do think that doing your part in this case is biting your tongue when you feel the need to express how hopeless we are.

Just remember that your lack of confidence is contagious, and while nobody really cares about what you’re saying on some old U2 web forum, it’s everyone’s responsibility to encourage others to want to vote. Fake a smile, avert disaster.

So ... fall in line?

 

[anitram]

Massachusetts is liberal. The absolute worst possible thing that could happen to a senate seat in that state is a RINO.

That's a potentially pretty horrific outcome given the state of Ruth Bader Ginsburg's health.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

So ... fall in line?

Call it whatever you want to call it. Bitching and moaning about your choice, whoever it is, is no better than those who did it about Clinton in 2016. It’s a referendum on Trump first and foremost. Talking about how his win is imminent is basically encouraging people not to care and to accept that as the understood outcome. Not caring = not voting.

 

[DaveC]

Call it whatever you want to call it. Bitching and moaning about your choice, whoever it is, is no better than those who did it about Clinton in 2016. It’s a referendum on Trump first and foremost. Talking about how his win is imminent is basically encouraging people not to care and to accept that as the understood outcome. Not caring = not voting.

hear hear.

the defeatism in here lately is getting very tedious.

if you aren't confident in sanders' chances, do something to help improve those chances instead of just throwing your hands up.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Is there a reason the House hasn’t subpoena Bolton? Or held more open hearings on staff firings ?

It’s like the democrats assume election will be business as usual.

Their failure to do their basic duties of office is a reason we are where we are

I mean, we've seen what's happened when they've issued subpoenas thus far. Either people feel they don't have to honor them or they're intimidated into not abiding by them.

And unfortunately at this point any hearings are likely just going to be white noise to most people, given how the impeachment trial played out. This administration, and those connected to them, have already made it clear they don't have to do shit in regards to laws and demands. So I really don't know what more the Democrats could do at this point.

I'm fully with you that they should happen, but I don't think the reason the Democrats aren't doing it is because they somehow think things will just return to normal. I think a lot of them are well aware that things aren't normal. Just that it's hard to know what to do when you've got an administration that refuses to play by any of the rules, and for whatever reason, anytime you try and fight back, somehow it winds up backfiring on you.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Heck I’m not even saying you have to settle on Sanders yet. I just mean to not let apathy win. Fight Sanders all you want. Be prepared for him to be your nominee and be prepared to encourage everyone you know to vote for him... or someone else if they win. We should all be focused on making sure we and others vote. If you really want to remove Trump, that’s the best way to do it.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Anderson Cooper just did an interview with Bernie on 60 Minutes. Now he's proposing universal free child care-he says taxes on billionaires would pay for it.

 

[Bluer White]

Is there a reason the House hasn’t subpoena Bolton? Or held more open hearings on staff firings ?

Hearings on which firings?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

hear hear.



the defeatism in here lately is getting very tedious.



if you aren't confident in sanders' chances, do something to help improve those chances instead of just throwing your hands up.

Nominate someone else?

Convince the republicans in Congress to do their job?

Trying, bro. Trying.

 

[DaveC]

he keeps rising in every poll and appears to be pulling away from the rest of the democratic field with each vote.

he is the first candidate from either party to EVER win the popular vote in all of the first 3 early voting states.

this place is constantly harping on "the most important thing is beating trump".

"nominate someone else"...okay, who has a better chance of beating trump right now? who exactly is this "someone else"?

 

[anitram]

Regardless of who the nominee is, and Bernie certainly has all the advantage as of now, the Democratic turnout has to be absolutely enormous to have a fighting chance against all manner of election theft.

That means Obama needs to be on the campaign trail, and I mean both Barack and Michelle, Bruce Springsteen doing free shows all over the place in PA, OH, MI, etc., Oprah stumping if they can get her and so on. + Bloomberg committing a billion would be really nice. None of this is funny anymore.

 

[Irvine511]

Call it whatever you want to call it. Bitching and moaning about your choice, whoever it is, is no better than those who did it about Clinton in 2016. It’s a referendum on Trump first and foremost. Talking about how his win is imminent is basically encouraging people not to care and to accept that as the understood outcome. Not caring = not voting.

Ok. We’re 3 primaries in. This isn’t June. No one has amassed an insurmountable lead. No one is sobbing outside the convention about how the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schultz is cheating and stuff.

There are many, many problems with a Sanders candidacy. And as we’ve been told, the point of a primary is to air differences between the candidates.

But I guess not anymore.

 

[Irvine511]

if you aren't confident in sanders' chances, do something to help improve those chances instead of just throwing your hands up.

I would love for Steyer, Klobuchar, and (sadly) even Warren to drop out tomorrow. Maybe Pete, too, but it seems fair to let him stay in until SC.

 

[anitram]

https://twitter.com/TomJChicago/status/1231264452097593345

Do people really think he's going to be capable of debating in the fall?

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Ok. We’re 3 primaries in. This isn’t June. No one has amassed an insurmountable lead. No one is sobbing outside the convention about how the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schultz is cheating and stuff.

There are many, many problems with a Sanders candidacy. And as we’ve been told, the point of a primary is to air differences between the candidates.

But I guess not anymore.

trace my post back to headache’s, follow my responses, and tell me what part of my dialogue has suggested that you shouldn’t air out your feelings about the candidates in a primary?

 

[DaveC]

https://twitter.com/TomJChicago/status/1231264452097593345

Do people really think he's going to be capable of debating in the fall?

https://twitter.com/TomthunkitsMind/status/1231166042434609152

 

[anitram]

https://twitter.com/TomthunkitsMind/status/1231166042434609152

I'm sure they're howling behind closed doors.

But this isn't about him being "a clown" - he's neurologically impaired and degenerating at an increasingly alarming rate. Anyone who has taken care of elderly people with neurological impairment of whatever sort know that this isn't a linear progression, it's exponential.

And the truly horrifying part of this is that everyone close to him knows it and would rather "own the libs" than admit to it and have him committed into competent care.

Like I said, nobody should ever forget what these people did.

 

[BEAL]

I'm sure they're howling behind closed doors.



But this isn't about him being "a clown" - he's neurologically impaired and degenerating at an increasingly alarming rate. Anyone who has taken care of elderly people with neurological impairment of whatever sort know that this isn't a linear progression, it's exponential.



And the truly horrifying part of this is that everyone close to him knows it and would rather "own the libs" than admit to it and have him committed into competent care.



Like I said, nobody should ever forget what these people did.

His brain is gone. They prop him up there for ratings.

He will not debate. Anyone who thinks he will is a fool. He’s alluded to skipping them. And why not? How will it hurt him ?

And Bernie on 60 mins basically saying Castro was horrible BUT he did have a literacy program is a horrible answer.

D primary isn’t over. Bill Clinton didn’t win until the 6th primary. Warren has made ground in CA, but it does feel like he’s got it. And fuck me the whining if he does blow it will be worse than 2016

I hope he picks Abrams if he does win

 

[lazarus]

Re: a VP pick for Bernie, one name I've heard mentioned elsewhere is Catherine Cortez Masto. She's second-generation, grandfather immigrated from Mexico (mother's side is Italian).

She's currently a senator but unlike some of the other names mentioned, the governor of NV is a Democrat so her seat is safer, at least in the short term. Gun control advocate, seems progressive on health care, LGBTQ issues, pro-choice, decriminalizing marijuana, etc.

And with her you'd have a woman on the ticket and also be acknowledging Bernie's POC support, as she's the first latina ever elected to the senate.