US POLITICS XX: Stuck In a Caucus You Can't Get Out Of - Page 13 - U2 Feedback

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Old 02-25-2020, 02:35 PM   #241
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i don't recall being asked prior to this to concede that sanders could tweak his approach a bit, but yes of course he could and he should, especially if he continues to build a lead and has to pivot his message to the general electorate and not just democrats in certain states. what i've been trying to get at today is that the answer on castro wasn't necessarily wrong per se if you get the point he was trying to make, but it was very tone deaf and he'll need to work on that going forward. i'm sure it'll get brought up at the debate tonight and i'm very interested to see how he responds.
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:39 PM   #242
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I concede Biden's and Warren's weakness and fuck-ups all the time. They are just people to me. I have no allegiance. I think it would help more people to approach political figures this way.
I don't typically engage in the Bernie Bros back and forth on this thread because I don't feel like I have a lot to add. Most of my friends are progressive but not Bernie-type voters, likely because of our age, stage in life and so on. So I don't have to contend with rabid people on FB and I have a crazy job + 2 toddlers at home and not enough time to really witness this on Twitter.

But the thing I have noticed is what you point out here - everyone who supports a candidate other than Bernie seems not only perfectly able to point out the negatives or campaign misses, or policy decisions that they are not 100% onboard with, but also perfectly willing to do so. With Sanders it's as if he's the perfect human being without a fault and how dare any of us question anything he says, it must be because we're part of the suburban upper middle class aristocracy that doesn't get it. With him, much of the support appears to be for him, the man, as opposed to him, a cog in the political machine.

Now watch me be told that it's because all of Bernie's stances actually ARE faultless.
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:39 PM   #243
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I'm going to stop the conversation here, but I'll say this. In retrospect, that was a very bad moment and a bad look for me. I apologized for it as well as my comments the following day. I was going through some personal items but that's not a good excuse. It was unacceptable.

The fact that you felt the need to bring it up again because we disagree on a topic is something that everyone will read and now judge you on.
you're the one who called me a "resident fidel castro fan" and felt the need to dishonestly paint me without provocation as someone who would dismiss the holocaust and defend hitler before i ever mentioned what you did, so don't act like we just had a simple disagreement and you're some kind of bullied victim here bud.

anyways.
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:42 PM   #244
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With Sanders it's as if he's the perfect human being without a fault and how dare any of us question anything he says, it must be because we're part of the suburban upper middle class aristocracy that doesn't get it. With him, much of the support appears to be for him, the man, as opposed to him, a cog in the political machine.

Now watch me be told that it's because all of Bernie's stances actually ARE faultless.
nobody here is anything like this caricature you're describing.
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:45 PM   #245
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you're the one who called me a "resident fidel castro fan" and felt the need to dishonestly paint me without provocation as someone who would dismiss the holocaust and defend hitler before i ever mentioned what you did, so don't act like we just had a simple disagreement and you're some kind of bullied victim here bud.

anyways.
I'm not perfect and I'm more than willing to own up to the fact that I can get heated and say things that aren't appropriate.

I feel happy for you that you're able to overlook your behavior and always point to someone else. That's probably less challenging.
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:46 PM   #246
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i don't recall being asked prior to this to concede that sanders could tweak his approach a bit, but yes of course he could and he should, especially if he continues to build a lead and has to pivot his message to the general electorate and not just democrats in certain states. what i've been trying to get at today is that the answer on castro wasn't necessarily wrong per se if you get the point he was trying to make, but it was very tone deaf and he'll need to work on that going forward. i'm sure it'll get brought up at the debate tonight and i'm very interested to see how he responds.
Oy, you make a great point. I hadn't even thought about the obvious, probably first debate question tonight since he is the front runner.

I totally agree that his answer with Castro wasn't incorrect. But I think Bernie, being "not your regular politician", could take the obvious trick on that one and pivot to how he did so well with Hispanic voters, and that he isn't going to re-litigate 40 year old comments, but will do all he can to meet with the Cuban-American voters and tell them what he can do as president.

Pretty easy. I'm sure he will answer well tonight. He doesn't seem to falter too much in debates.
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:48 PM   #247
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Other obvious question tonight. Amy, why are you still here?
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:51 PM   #248
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I'm not perfect and I'm more than willing to own up to the fact that I can get heated and say things that aren't appropriate.

I feel happy for you that you're able to overlook your behavior and always point to someone else. That's probably less challenging.
maybe next time don't essentially call someone a nazi without provocation, and then they won't have a reason to come back at you with your own shitty behaviour.
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:55 PM   #249
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maybe next time don't essentially call someone a nazi without provocation, and then they won't have a reason to come back at you with your own shitty behaviour.
You got it. Thanks so much for your advice. I've learned a lot about your character throughout this today so I'll make sure to keep that in mind moving forward.
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Old 02-25-2020, 03:05 PM   #250
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lmao at the hubris of the bloomberg people going around pre-debate harping on bernie's college stories and voting for the crime bill.
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Old 02-25-2020, 03:06 PM   #251
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https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/st...90724110008321
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Old 02-25-2020, 03:06 PM   #252
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nobody here is anything like this caricature you're describing.
Do you really not see that there is a much greater reluctance on the part of Sanders supporters to criticize him?

I mean honestly it feels like anytime something like this is observed we're told nobody here is a caricature that we apparently created in our minds which at some point truthfully feels like gaslighting.

I think that you will agree that I have really not participated in any caricature-making of the Bernie Bros but I can't even make an observation before being ridiculed. So ok, we're all crazy then...
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Old 02-25-2020, 03:11 PM   #253
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other obvious question tonight. Amy, why are you still here?
right??
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Old 02-25-2020, 03:11 PM   #254
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Something to remember:

https://twitter.com/mmpadellan/statu...83444463120384
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Old 02-25-2020, 03:13 PM   #255
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right??
Amy is going to go nuclear tonight. She saw what it did for Warren so she's gonna give it a go. Let's see how good her aim is with a stapler.
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Old 02-25-2020, 03:15 PM   #256
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It seems like we have two sides in here, the same two sides that exists in greater population.

One side that feels passionately about Bernie and his agenda for America
the other the wants 'anyone but Bernie'.

This debate tonight, is the last best chance to influence the outcome, aside from the 500? million onslaught from Booomberg for super Tuesday.

I can't say what is the best outcome for those that want to beat Trump in November
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Old 02-25-2020, 03:22 PM   #257
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Amy is going to go nuclear tonight. She saw what it did for Warren so she's gonna give it a go. Let's see how good her aim is with a stapler.
I don't think she can do it. She comes across so stiff. Her dad jokes are worse than mine.
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Old 02-25-2020, 03:22 PM   #258
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Trump openly commented that America has done just as bad things as those dictators and didn't face any backlash for those comments. Of course, the plays by different rules. So do the GOP.

They're the party that can storm into a SCIF with personal devices and face no penalty, where if the Dems (or any of us) did that same move, you bet we'd all face some form of legal consequence.
This is the part that's frustrating me the most about all these constant debates over what the Democrats should and shouldn't do and say going forward. On the one hand, people complain that they're not tough enough, that they care too much about what everyone else says, or will say, about them and need to just be more bold and honest and own whatever shit the GOP tries to use against them.

But then when they do actually try and do that, then it's, "Oh, but they have to be careful, they need to not say this or do that, it'll totally blow up in their faces and the GOP will use it against them and so on."

So what the hell are they supposed to do, then, exactly? It seems no matter what they do, in somebody's eyes, they've totally fucked up their chances.

Speaking in general terms, I'm frankly well beyond sick and tired of the constant bickering and debating about what the Democratic candidates should and shouldn't be doing, and the whole "They need to do this/not do this" back and forth. It just turns into yet another argument that goes nowhere and seems to help nobody.

I'd like to discuss more about what we voters can do from now until November. Clearly we know our Congress doesn't seem to give a shit about protecting us from voter fraud, so is there, say, anything we can do to help encourage individual states to try and protect us? Any tech-savvy groups that can organize to do their part to help out on that front? What can we do to help get more people signed up to vote, and most importantly, how can we help those who are at risk of being purged from the voter rolls (if they haven't been already)? I'm seeing people marching in India in protest of all the shit that government's pulling there. What more can we do to try and fight back against what the GOP keeps pulling here?

That's the sort of stuff I'd much prefer to be discussing right now, both here and in the political discussions in this country in general, instead of this constant sniping back and forth and hand-wringing and defeatism. By constantly fighting among ourselves, congratulations, we're playing right into Russia's hands, and definitely doing our part to ensure Trump gets four more years.
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Old 02-25-2020, 03:23 PM   #259
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sir, this is a Wendy's.
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Old 02-25-2020, 03:23 PM   #260
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Bloomberg needs to rebound after last time or he should just call it a day as well. If he gets pistol whipped by Warren again he shouldn't even try for Super Tuesday and just give all his funding to her.
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