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Old 02-01-2020, 06:53 PM   #761
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It may be an unpopular opinion but the “squad” has showed very poor judgment on enough occasions to lead me to have a generally negative opinion of them.
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Old 02-01-2020, 06:56 PM   #762
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I reject the notion that I need to call them “the squad” just as much as I actually don’t like how Ocasci9-Cortez is called “AOC.” I feel like both of these labels are attempted brandings from the right to illegitimize their roles and worthiness as members of Congress. Basically... treating them like children and grouping them together.
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Old 02-01-2020, 07:04 PM   #763
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Well to that, all I can say is that apologists apparently appear weak, and regardless of how much I agree, those people keep losing.
But nothing in that hypothetical comment was an apology. What he needs to do is be proactive and then any re-action, or apology is unnecessary.


Anyway, i guess i've beaten that dead horse long enough,

More interesting topic is Iowa on Monday. I'm really excited to see what happens. You have two at the top in a statistical tie. You have 4 candidates running in the mid teens to low 20's. It will make for quite a day.

Anyone willing to make predictions?

As of today, I would say Biden will win by about the same half a percent margin over Bernie that Clinton did.
I think that both Pete and Warren will finish lower than what their numbers say now.

My thinking...
The number 1 issue to voters is - Who can beat Trump. 39% over Healthcare at number two with 21%
And these were numbers before the Senate shit-show yesterday.
I think what we have seen from Iowa voters is something kind of extraordinary. Something like 35 or 40% of people say they are open to changing their mind on their candidate. Which means they like 2, 3 , 4 candidates, and they say they are worried about "picking the right one". Aka, who can beat Trump.

So when it comes down to that day. What is really going to be in people's minds, is who is going to have the most solid chance at beating Trump.
Right now, IMO, that list from best chance to beat Trump to worst is:

Biden
Bernie
Warren
Pete

I think there will be a decent number of Warren supporters that move over to Bernie and a decent chunk of Pete Supporters that move to Biden on that day.

Whichever one comes out on top, I think it will be really tight.
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Old 02-01-2020, 07:06 PM   #764
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Every minute Hillary, Bernie, the "squad", Elizabeth Warren and anyone else spends on this childish nonsense is just more food for Trumplethinskin. It's infuriating that they keep playing right into his hands and his playbook.

I'm still a Hillary fan too, I'm a fan of her intelligence and accomplishments. She's got a show on Hulu starting in March, maybe that will keep her busy and out of the fray. Fingers crossed. She should focus on uniting and defeating Trump and not her ego. So should the rest of them.

Really don't see the point of booing her. No matter what those women think of her and how enamored they are of Bernie, Hillary paved the way for each and every one of them. Yes Hillary shouldn't have said what she said about Bernie.
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Old 02-01-2020, 07:14 PM   #765
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I know 2016 was unfair, but she needs to back off.
2016 was unfair for both Senator Sanders and Secretary Clinton.
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Old 02-01-2020, 07:14 PM   #766
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Just turned on MSNBC, and what do i see. The subject is the booing incident and the banner reads "Is 2020 just 2016 all over again." Sigh.
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Old 02-01-2020, 07:17 PM   #767
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I reject the notion that I need to call them “the squad” just as much as I actually don’t like how Ocasci9-Cortez is called “AOC.” I feel like both of these labels are attempted brandings from the right to illegitimize their roles and worthiness as members of Congress. Basically... treating them like children and grouping them together.


That’s fair, particularly because I don’t see the 4 of them as having equally poor judgment.
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Old 02-01-2020, 08:04 PM   #768
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Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
Every minute Hillary, Bernie, the "squad", Elizabeth Warren and anyone else spends on this childish nonsense is just more food for Trumplethinskin. It's infuriating that they keep playing right into his hands and his playbook.

I'm still a Hillary fan too, I'm a fan of her intelligence and accomplishments. She's got a show on Hulu starting in March, maybe that will keep her busy and out of the fray. Fingers crossed. She should focus on uniting and defeating Trump and not her ego. So should the rest of them.

Really don't see the point of booing her. No matter what those women think of her and how enamored they are of Bernie, Hillary paved the way for each and every one of them. Yes Hillary shouldn't have said what she said about Bernie.

Can you please elaborate on the underlined?
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Old 02-01-2020, 08:08 PM   #769
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They're definitely not helping the argument that the Bernie cult isn't similar to the Trump cult.
I tend to agree AND I know that all Bernie supporters are not like that.
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I know I’m not the sharpest tool in the box

But I’m sticking to 40+ states to Trump if Bernie wins.

Socialism.
AOC + The Squad

Or

He wins 40+ states
Quote:
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right, but i was only addressing the silly notion that trump can somehow win 40+ states.

hillary herself has made it patently clear that she doesn't think we're on the same side.
Well, maybe someone(s) should sit down with and have more of a discussion w her. We have try and not totally tear each other down.

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I’m replying more indirectly to the general conversation regarding Sanders’ associates comments about Clinton.

Clinton basically said Sanders has no friends and nobody wants to work with him. She’s freaked out about James Comey at least a dozen times (he does suck). She’s currently being sued by Tulsi Gabbard for basically destroying her campaign (Tulsi also sucks but opposed Clinton in 2016 too by passing her superdelegate vote for Sanders). She’s on a bitter rampage against all of her enemies - consider all the losers of past... Romney, McCain, Kerry, Gore... all stayed out of the light and otherwise just worked hard to endorse the next folks in the general, avoiding attacking individuals in the primaries.

It doesn’t matter if Rashid Tliab went over the top. Did Bernie? No. Did Clinton? Yes, over and over again. She needs to back off. I know 2016 qwas unfair, but she needs to back off.
Gotta disagree some. Rashid is a surrogate. She has to he more circumspect.

Maybe Hillary herself should have been more careful in her words. I don't know when this documentary was started - since this was where her comments are from.

She and Bill (for all their mistakes) were ceaselessly, mercilessly hounded, haragned by Limbaugh, and others for decades. Before she decided to run. She has a right to be bitter. I hope she will cool down for this current time.

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Sigh.

Sanders seriously is his own worst enemy at times and he doesn't realize it.

First, the primary. Who does Sanders need to win over at this point? People 40 and over. He has the younger vote locked in, along with Warren. So what does he do? Sends out Michael Moore and the squad to lead boos for Clinton.

You know, boos coming from 20 somethings that weren't born yet when Hillary was busy working to help poor migrant worker communities, uncovering that Nixon Admin was not complying with anti-segregaton laws, creating the Office for Violence against Women, re-introducing the Equal Rights Amendment, passing the Lily Ledbetter Equal Pay Act, The Adoption and Safe Families Act, and the Children's Insurance Program.
You know, all that Neo-liberal, oligarch, corporate shill, worse than Trump stuff that she was up to.


This type of bullshit isn't soon forgotten by the millions of people that voted for Clinton just 4 years ago, He would be wise to try and actually speak to those people as well.
I'm sure he will pull the ol' - well i wasn't there, so I can't control what they say" game that he employs every time.

Next, the General. What is the ONE thing that Trump is going to hit Sanders with over and over again if he is the nominee? Far lefty socialist. Sooooo why hand that to Trump on a platter? The one chance he would have to win in the general is to get those crossover Sanders/Trump independent voters, or the Obama/Trump voters (yes it's actually a thing)

Him having the AOC and squad out on the trial is the exact wrong move. Doesn't mean he changes any of his policy positions. Just means that there are certain games that he will have to play to be successful in a general against Trump. And this aint it.
THIS.

And whether some people like it or not, Hillary
Clinton is an Elder Satesperson, and at least be respected for such efforts and successes as wf has listed above! She also did a lot of work for girls and women internationally. She IS important, many people still respect her. So to blanketly disregard her has a taint of sexism about it, imho.

Quote:
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even if it's biden or bloomberg trump is still going to call them a "far lefty socialist" over and over and over.
This is absolutely true!

A bit 'o History for you DAVE C. My first Presidential Candidate that I could vote for (at 19!) was George McGovern.

He was an ace WWII pilot, 35 missions ad co-pilot, then pilot (saved his crew once) over Germany, and the occupied countries, was
against the Vietnam War and Nixon & Co turn him into a "Commie". He lost ?49 States - 1. Absolutely devastating!

I know allll about this kinda shit.
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Old 02-01-2020, 08:14 PM   #770
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Only two thoughts:

1. As a person, Bernie is not well liked. High staff turnover. This is known in DC. His ideas are popular with some, but he’s not known as easy to work with. Nor does he have to be.

2. I think Klobuchar beats Pete in Iowa and gains momentum.
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Old 02-01-2020, 08:29 PM   #771
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Well, it is more useful to be easier to work with; less staff turnover, thus less getting up to speed onthe nuances that each boss, and other staff has as part of any team!
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Old 02-01-2020, 08:37 PM   #772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
I reject the notion that I need to call them “the squad” just as much as I actually don’t like how Ocasci9-Cortez is called “AOC.” I feel like both of these labels are attempted brandings from the right to illegitimize their roles and worthiness as members of Congress. Basically... treating them like children and grouping them together.

That at top was an accident.
i don't know... I kind of like t the term. I think of this term overall of them as smart, fiesty women of color who've made it to the House of Reps. Each w their own nuances, and differences as people, and their constituents.
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Old 02-01-2020, 08:54 PM   #773
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Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
I reject the notion that I need to call them “the squad” just as much as I actually don’t like how Ocasci9-Cortez is called “AOC.” I feel like both of these labels are attempted brandings from the right to illegitimize their roles and worthiness as members of Congress. Basically... treating them like children and grouping them together.
i dunno ... I kind of like t the term.
I think of this term overall of them as smart, fiesty women of color who've made it to the House of Reps. Each w their own nuances, and differences as people, who are serving their constituents, and over-arching similar goals.
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Old 02-02-2020, 07:48 AM   #774
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Oh I don’t disagree with you at all. I agree entirely. Nobody cares what she’s saying now.

But the post in this thread was seemingly peeved about something Rashida Tlaib did. Not Bernie Sanders. There’s a fake outrage that Bernie’s campaign cares about this... that Bernie’s campaign is engaging Clinton. It’s not true. Rashida Tlaib did. In a more traditional candidate, I would agree that the candidate muzzles his or her mouth pieces. Right here? False outrage. Tlaib’s sentiment or direction is not reflected by the sanders campaign.
So she's a Sanders surrogate, and it was at a Sanders event.

We certainly give shit to Trump's surrogates when they go out at rallys or on TV and spew their bullshit.

And Sanders has had a number of surrogate issues.. it's his campaign, not him issues... over the past few weeks; begining with the phone calls that led to Liz Warren NARCing on him. Are you to have us believe that a) Sanders isn't aware of this, and/or b) he's telling them to stop going negative and golly gee they just aren't listening?

Come on.

Sanders entire thing is that he wants to destroy the Democratic establishment as it currently stands and remake it in his vision. This is very much on brand and very much intentional.

And, frankly, if you look at the polls? It's working.

This is probably the only election that I would ever even remotely consider casting a vote for someone like Bernie Sanders - and it's only because it would be a vote against Trump (albeit my vote doesn't stand for shit - taxation without representation yo).

I do not like him, and would never vote for him if not for the pariah in the oval currently. But I give him credit for breaking from the kumbaya we're all together they go low we to high bullshit and started, ya know, trying to win.
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Old 02-02-2020, 09:29 AM   #775
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I feel it comes down to two voter blocs with Bernie

Will minority vote turn out like 2008/2012 in favor of him?

Will the suburbs decide potentially higher taxes and bigger government be greater than another four (or 20) years of Trump?

He may win over a few disenfranchised white coal miners who voted Trump in 2016

But he has to do well with minority and the female vote. Two areas he’s not strong in at the moment
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Old 02-02-2020, 10:17 AM   #776
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The only question is whether or not old white swing state voters, who grew up with the notion that socialism = communism, hate what they see with Trump enough to vote for Sanders.

That's the big unknown if Sanders wins the nomination.

The unknown if Sanders doesn't is whether or not the hardcore Sanders voters stay home - which was the big matzoah ball of 2016 - and whether or not that number is greater than the suburban white female vote that went Trump's way in 2016 but swung back big time to the Democrats on 2018.
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Old 02-02-2020, 10:28 AM   #777
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So we agree that a great ploy is to play Sanders off as a sexist in the primary, because of all the evidence piling up against him. It will help him notch that strong female vote if he’s the candidate.
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Old 02-02-2020, 11:16 AM   #778
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Can you please elaborate on the underlined?
I truly hope you're joking.

I just did a quick google search to find a good list for you, because I didn't think it worth the time to type out a bunch of stuff that I am aware of. This list is actually quite comprehensive.

I would challenge anyone to put up a list of accomplishments from any other candidate now, or possibly ever that has had anywhere near Clinton's accomplishments. I'll even challenge someone to come up with even half as long a list as this one.

I"m sorry, I'm just absolutely astounded that someone at this point doesn't now Clinton's background. It was one of the big reasons I switched from Bernie to her. No one comes close to her experience and background.

I would encourage everyone to actually read through this list. Notice the range of issues she covers And just how focused on women, children and families she has been.

•First ever student commencement speaker at Wellesley College.
•President of the Wellesley Young Republicans
•Intern at the House Republican Conference
•Distinguished graduate of Yale Law School
•Editorial board of the Yale Review of Law and Social Action
•Chair of the American Bar Association’s Commission on Women in the Profession
•Legal work at the Yale Child Study Center for child abuse
•Appointed to Senator Walter Mondale's Subcommittee on Migratory Labor.
•Co-founded Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families
•Staff attorney for Children's Defense Fund
•Faculty member in the School of Law at the University of Arkansas, Fayetteville
•Former Director of the Arkansas Legal Aid Clinic.
•First female chair of the Legal Services Corporation
•Jimmy Carter’s Indiana director of field operations
•First female partner at Rose Law Firm.
•Former civil litigation attorney.
•Former Law Professor at the University of Arkansas School of Law.
•twice listed by The National Law Journal as one of the hundred most influential lawyers in America
•Former First Lady of Arkansas.
•Arkansas Woman of the Year in 1983
•Chair of the American Bar Association's Commission on Women in the Profession
•twice named by the National Law Journal as one of the 100 most influential lawyers in America
•created Arkansas's Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth
•Chaired Arkansas’ Rural Health Advisory Committee, working to expand medical facilities for the poor
•Chair of the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee
•Chair of Presidential Task Force on National Health Care Reform
•Instrumental in passage of the State Children's Health Insurance Program
•Promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses
•Successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health
•Worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War (now recognized as Gulf War Syndrome)
•Helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice
•Initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act
•Helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.
•Beijing speech considered by many to be one of the turning points of international women’s rights
•Served on five Senate committees:
-Committee on Budget (2001–2002)
-Committee on Armed Services (2003–2009)
-Committee on Environment and Public Works (2001–2009)
-Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (2001–2009)
-Special Committee on Aging.
•Member of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe
•Instrumental in securing $21 billion in funding for the World Trade Center site's redevelopment
•Leading role in investigating the health issues faced by 9/11 first responders.
•In the aftermath of September 11th, secured $21.4 billion in funding for the World Trade Center redevelopment.
• Middle East ceasefire. In November 2012, Secretary of State Clinton brokered a ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas.
• Myanmar transition
•Iran nuclear deal framework
•Promoting LGBT rights in Africa as Secretary of State
•HIV/AIDS testing and treatment through C linton Foundation partnership with ANTIAIDS and the Victor Pinchuk Foundation in Ukraine
•Launched Global Hunger and Food Security program
•Saved the Turkish-Armenian accord
•Co-sponsored Afghan Women and Children Relief Act of 2001
•Co-sponsored Zimbabwe Democracy and Economic Recovery Act of 2001
•Co-sponsored Dem Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act of 2006
•Co-sponsored Iraq Reconstruction Accountability Act of 2006
•Co-sponsored Palestinian Anti-Terrorism Act of 2006
•Co-sponsored Native American Breast & Cervical Cancer Treatment Technical Amendment Act of 2001
•Co-sponsored Pediatric Research Equity Act of 2003
•Co-sponsored PREEMIE Act
•Co-sponsored Newborn Screening Saves Lives Act of 2007
•Co-sponsored Prevention First Act (family planning)
•Wrote Count Every Vote Act of 2005
•Co-sponsored re-introducing the Equal Rights Amendment
•Co-sponsored Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009
•Co-sponsored Methamphetamine Production Prevention Act of 2008
•Co-sponsored PROTECT Our Children Act of 2008
•Co-sponsored KIDS Act of 2008
•Co-sponsored Broadband Data Improvement Act
•Co-sponsored Appalachian Regional Development Act Amendments of 2008
•Co-sponsored Healthy Start Reauthorization Act of 2007
•Co-sponsored Hematological Cancer Research Investment and Education Act of 2002
•Co-sponsored Persian Gulf War POW/MIA Accountability Act of 2002
•Co-sponsored FHA Downpayment Simplification Act of 2002
•Co-sponsored Strengthen AmeriCorps Program Act
•Co-sponsored 21st Century Nanotechnology Research and Development Act
•Co-sponsored Traumatic Brain Injury Act of 2008
•Co-sponsored ALS Registry Act
•Co-sponsored Poison Center Support, Enhancement, and Awareness Act of 2008
•Co-sponsored Veterans’ Mental Health and Other Care Improvements Act of 2008
•Built Arkansas’ Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youngster
•Reformed Arkansas’ education system as chair of the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee
•Co-sponsored Carl D. Perkins Career and Technical Education Improvement Act of 2006
•Expanded the Family Medical Leave Act to include national guard/reservist
•Established family compensation/small business loan programs
•Co-sponsored Procedural Fairness for September 11 Victims Act of 2007
•Helped create Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice
•Helped pass Adoption and Safe Families Act
•Helped pass Foster Care Independence Act
•Supported and promoted the passage and rollout of the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), which expanded health insurance for children in lower-income families.
•Changed State Department policy to include same sex couples in Diplomat benefits package
•Two-term New York Senator
•Former US Secretary of State
•GRAMMY Award Winner
•Author
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Old 02-02-2020, 12:43 PM   #779
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But her emails!
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Old 02-02-2020, 12:44 PM   #780
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Vlad is more akin to the Clinton critic from the left, and doesn’t give a rat’s ass about her emails.
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