US Politics XVII: Yes, squid pro row

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Trump is a massive special snowflake, who never goes anywhere near protesters or people who aren't in his cult in some arena. The best part of this isn't even that he's fuming, but if you take a look at right wing sites it's that his idiot supporters are all totally convinced that he was booed because the game was in DC and everyone who attended was a Deep State wealthy liberal.

The fact that about 60% of the American public thinks he should get the heave-ho doesn't even register with them.

To say nothing of the fact that of course it was totally okay when they did it for Hillary, but with Trump it's suddenly bad.

I saw a tweet from somebody elsewhere online earlier that also pointed out that there's a vast difference between a president leading a crowd in a "Lock her up!" chant (since, y'know, it's a rather authoritarian thing to do) and American citizens doing that on their own time at a game.

But logic clearly doesn't seem to work on some people, so... I think the chant at the game is hilarious.

On a different note, I'm just gonna leave this here:

https://news.yahoo.com/pelosi-trump-impeachment-vote-201816643.html
 
Why Argentina why??? Thank God I live in Canada now but I feel horrible for my family that still live there and are trapped and can’t leave the country like my parents and I did! The new VP who was president before Macri is a horrible person. Cristina Kirchner will surely be calling the shots. She is a criminal and Argentina is going to go down the drain again. A sad day for them indeed.

https://us.yahoo.com/news/argentinas-center-left-peronists-celebrate-062446737.html
 
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Oh, dear, can't remove the 'thumbs down' that was an accident, didn't even realize my finger hit an emoji.

?
We don’t really know much about him other than what he’s been willing to release. He didnt release all of his tax returns (think only a few years, maybe a decade) where others have released over 20 years

What he did release showed he is a millionaire, but claims it was from writing a book. Guess it’s that easy.

He’s taken no heat in his health, where compare Hillary was accused of being a walking seizure and needed secret service to administer “shots” on the fly. Remember when she nearly fainted and the news cycle wouldn’t shut up about her health and ability to lead??

Bernie had a heart attack and we still don’t know how healthy he really is. Think Clinton would have gotten away with it ?

Bernie was never attacked in 2016, and we all know the GOP has a giant book of attacks waiting for him.

Again, if he beats warren and Biden he’s my guy. The same worries about Warren and the minority community remain (and so does my thought of why can’t you vote this one time!!!???)

I have another worry about his ability to win over moderates and independents. Aside from the “squad” nearly all the 2018 Democrats House gains were by Moderates.

I wish more people could believe in M4A, or student loan wipe out....but people are selfish (and stupid) and unfortunately our politicians have to cater to that
Didn't know he didn't release a bunch of tax returns. He could have made a million dollars from his book. Yeah, him having a heart attack makes his run somewhat more questionable, would like to see more health info - picking a VP would be extra serious. I live in nyc, and NYS- about halfway up the eastern border is next to Vermont, so occasionally i'd hear about Bernie. Nothing negative ; unless being a Democratic Socialist is a negative thing.

Really, Bernie was not attacked by the GOP in 2016? Huh. Oh, I sure do remember Hillary being attacked on her "health"! Vermont was on the moderate and conservative side, which back then has surprised people that Bernie kept getting elected - but an influx of immigrants, and others have made parts of the state more liberal.

Bernie isn't my first chioce. Of i'll work as hard ad I can if he gets the nomination.

I approve. Do you know who that was? Of course people would say that wasn't in the spirit of who Elijah Cummings was as a man. But I say it was morally correct. I wish I could have seen the service, maybe I can find it somewhere in entirety. Other than on You Tube.
Woah, i hadn't heard this. Heh. Don't feel too bad about that. I have find the service too. But why not yt? Maybe a PBS station has it.

The Giuliani butt dial story is hilarious. You just can't make this stuff up.
omg! :lmao: That was so funny!
Calling it right now, if Biden gets the nomination (legit or RIGGED!!!!!!!) Trump will win because Dems will eat their own again.

I’ve asked a few people from back home who voted for Stein would they go 3rd party again if it’s Biden and they said no, they won’t vote at all.

They are white. Upper middle class. Iowa. And they gave kids.

It’s what we see in here, it’s either my way or everyone burns with me
if you didn't you ask them - the ones with kids how they feel about global warming. I can't quite imagine - unless they're climate deniers, or their racism, or sexism "trumps" the weather changes, thst they'd vote for drumph!

I agree. While there will always be some contingent of people that will sit it out or vote third party. This year, I have seen a shift. I remember pretty much EVERY Bernie supporter saying that they wouldn't vote or vote Green, or do a write in if Hillary won. But this time, i see the overwhelming majority say they will vote for the Dem in the end.

I do hope that Bernie will take a different path this year. If it becomes clear that he isn't going to win, he really needs to drop out and energetically and whole-heartedly get behind someone else, and then do the same with whomever wins the nomination. I have my doubts that he will do this, but I really hope that he does.

Stein isn't running from what i understand, and I have no idea about Tulsi. She said today that she isn't running third party, but who the hell knows with that one.
There isn't a "big name" libertarian type that I know of either. So it may really be a more real one on one match up this time around.
Thst's good to hear, that there's been some change!

Aaaaaaand it looks like this guy listened to his wife. :applaud:

Did Matt Gaetz drunkenly try to crash the situation room to join the fake photo op?

Maybe he could have told them it would look more realistic if they plugged the ethernet cables in.
Omg! Really, unplugged cables!? :lmao:

I haven't seen the photo till you posed it here and that's too small for me to tell!
 
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Actually that has very personal meaning for me, but thanks? for persisting in your drive by snide comments. That's all some people in these forums have left I guess.

I was responding with snark to your 10 posts on the topic yesterday morning.

Anyway, it wasn't bad news for the country. It was positive news. That's all.
 
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Stop congratulating Obama for killing Bin Laden. The Navy Seals killed Bin Laden. #debate
9:12 PM · Oct 22, 2012·
Gotcha, drumphy!

The “Lock Him Up” chant was A+
:applaud:


Ahhhhhhhh :D

World Series to be cancelled
:lol:
giphy.gif
:lmao:
the Nationals pull from DC, NoVA, and MD. it's basically a bridge-and-tunnel crowd drawing mostly from the suburbs. educated, well-off suburbs.

which still makes sense. the suburbs hate Trump.

booing a politician is par for the course for sporting events. "lock him up," however, in all its joyful splendor, is something entirely new . i imagine it was quite a shock for Trump to be in an uncontrolled public environment and not surrounded by his adoring, red-hatted idiot crowds.
W00t!

It is why I am a lurker!:wave:

I remember your username (fun wordplay)
 
usually, conservative websites fill me with dread and despair.

this is one post that didn't:

Virginia holds state-legislative elections this year, and the outlook is cloudy for the state GOP, despite this year’s earlier scandals of Governor Ralph “Blackface” Northam, allegations of sexual assault against Lieutenant Governor Justin Fairfax, and another blackface scandal involving Mark Herring, the state’s attorney general. If Virginia Republicans have a lousy year, many outside the state will wonder how they could fail to capitalize on the series of scandals. But the state party has been sailing into headwinds throughout the cycle.

On November 5, Virginians will vote in elections for all 40 seats in the state senate and all 100 seats in the state house of delegates. In both chambers, Republicans are holding onto a razor-thin majority: 21 to 19 in the senate, and 51 to 49 in the state house. Republicans entered the 2017 election cycle with comfortable majorities and saw them nearly disappear, driven by huge turnout among Democrats in the first full year of Donald Trump’s presidency. That dynamic, furiously motivating progressive voters in northern Virginia’s Washington D.C. suburbs, has barely abated during Trump’s presidency.

Then there are the retirements. This year will see twelve open-seat races in the House; seven incumbent Republicans retired, and five incumbent Democrats. In the Senate, three Republican incumbents are retiring.

One more disadvantage for Virginia Republicans: in more than a quarter of the state-house districts, they couldn’t find a candidate. According to Ballotpedia, seven state-house races have no Democrat running, but 27 state-house races have no Republican running. (Of the open-seat races, only the race in the 57th district, which includes all of Charlottesville and a portion of Albemarle County, is uncontested. Sally Hudson will become a state-house representative as a result. Districts like this one, full of students and professors, are always an uphill climb for the GOP, but you can’t win a seat where you didn’t run a candidate.)

In the state senate, four Republicans are running unopposed, while 15 Democrats are – including Creigh Deeds, who was the party’s nominee for governor in 2009.

It gets worse: In the 30th House district, two-term Republican delegate Nicholas J. Freitas “should have been a shoo-in for reelection in a rural Virginia district east of Shenandoah National Park that heavily favored President Trump.” Except his campaign didn’t file the paperwork in time to appear on the ballot, and now he has to run as a write-in candidate. (That’s F-R-E-I-T-A-S, everyone.)

In most of these districts, the partisan divide is so strong that not having a candidate on the ballot probably won’t make a huge difference. (Even as a write-in, Freitas has a decent shot to keep his seat.) Control of the state legislature will come down to just a handful of seats in both the state senate and state house.

But there’s one more complication: new district lines. As one analysis by the conservative Virginia-politics-focused blog Bearing Drift put it, “almost all the negative shifts in competitive districts are currently held by Republicans. Of course, there are equal, counterweight shifts just as big that impacts Democratic districts, but those are so overwhelmingly blue that they will remain uncompetitive.” While the new district lines shouldn’t determine the makeup of the new legislature all by themselves, note the incumbent facing the toughest new lines is GOP house of delegates speaker Kirk Cox.

A new poll from Christopher Newport University out today surveyed likely voters in four key state-senate districts and found Democrats lead Republicans by 14 points on the generic ballot, 51 percent to 37 percent. While voters don’t vote for generic candidates, Virginia Republicans have their work cut out for them. (D. J. McGuire, writing at Bearing Drift, says the poll result suggests the Democrats are extremely likely to win control of the state senate.)

Gun-control groups have dumped millions of dollars of advertising in these swing districts. Their calculus is simple: if Democrats win a few more seats to secure a majority, they are almost certain to pass Governor Northam’s proposed package of gun laws, which includes universal background checks on gun buyers and limits handgun purchases to one a month.

In July, Northam called a special session of the state legislature, demanding they pass gun-control legislation. The session lasted an hour; Republicans in both chambers voted to adjourn until after election day. “The speed which the governor called the session, the partisan demands for floor votes, the roadshow all demonstrate to me how the whole thing is just an election year stunt,” Cox said at a news conference following the adjournment. “We all share the goal of reducing gun violence in Virginia.”

Depending upon how November 5 goes, Northam could find himself with a much more agreeable state legislature — leaving a big smile on his face, no matter what color he chooses to make it in the future.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corn...-virginia-republicans-as-november-approaches/
 
Why Argentina why??? Thank God I live in Canada now but I feel horrible for my family that still live there and are trapped and can’t leave the country like my parents and I did! The new VP who was president before Macri is a horrible person. Cristina Kirchner will surely be calling the shots. She is a criminal and Argentina is going to go down the drain again. A sad day for them indeed.

https://us.yahoo.com/news/argentinas-center-left-peronists-celebrate-062446737.html


lmao wasn't Argentina already descending rapidly under Macri? Who did you want to win?
 
lmao wasn't Argentina already descending rapidly under Macri? Who did you want to win?

Argentina has been descending since way before macri! Argentina was so damaged already when Macri took office that it was a lost cause. He was a horrible president too as most modern Argentine presidents were but he was certainly better than the peronists and Cristina kirchner. There is no hope for Argentina under her control. Just Ask any sane argentine person how kirchner was....
 
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the Nationals pull from DC, NoVA, and MD. it's basically a bridge-and-tunnel crowd drawing mostly from the suburbs. educated, well-off suburbs.

which still makes sense. the suburbs hate Trump.

booing a politician is par for the course for sporting events. "lock him up," however, in all its joyful splendor, is something entirely new. i imagine it was quite a shock for Trump to be in an uncontrolled public environment and not surrounded by his adoring, red-hatted idiot crowds.
It was literally his first time in a non controlled environment since he took office.

Yes, he showed up to Army Navy. Let's be real, a stadium full of cadets is not going to boo the commander in chief no matter who it is.

He also showed up at th college football national championship game... In Texas. Between a team from Alabama and a team from South Carolina.

The sycophants can spin this all they want. Trump was booed and serenaded with Lock Him Up chants by a largely white, male, suburban crowd - the exact group that put him in office.

And Morning Joe can to fuck off, too.
 
Everyone calling for civility can get bent.

The citizenry literally has no power except to boo and protest. This criminal enterprise currently squatting in the WH believes itself to be above the law and the rest of humanity should clap for Trump politely the first time they see him in a public setting in 3 years? The same way that the pundits couldn’t understand how Trump got elected is the way they can’t comprehend the anger out there today.
 
ok, a couple things.

First - I couldn't believe when i saw Morning Joe's response to the booing/chanting crowd. What a fucking joke.
Look around the world and see hundreds of thousands of people taking to the streets to stand up to the bullshit happening in their countries. This really should be what is happening here, but the public has been the frog in the boiling pot, lulled into complacency or depression or whatever about our mess here.
The fact that anyone would think that people sit there and politely applaud a man that is a serial sexual assaulter, a pathological liar, a racist, a misogynist, a russian asset, that calls anyone who doesn't support him "human scum" is beyond belief. Fuck him indeed.

Second - a comment on age.
i get not wanting a 70+ candidate. But look at Nancy Pelosi. 79 years old. And she is more skilled at the workings of government than anyone. She has successfully played this from the get go. She has played Rope-a-dope with the entire GOP for the last year.

People were deriding her for not going for impeachment right after Mueller. She gave Trump the rope and he hanged himself.
The witnesses have been timed in a way that has let Repubs argue a certain point publicly for days only to have witness come over and over and destroy the argument.

Why won't Pelosi just bring the inquiry to a vote??? She waited, and let the GOP mob of white male dolts come and storm into a SCIF, and build that argument up, and then she said, ok, we'll be doing a vote and public hearings within weeks. Slapping the goons into reality - where they are realizing - oh shit. Now the public is actually going to hear all of this.

It's been masterfully done.

If people would have caved to the progressive wing to have a new leader, possibly a Freshman!! take the leadership roll. This would have been a disaster. Impeachment would have been jumped on right away, it would have fizzled out and gone nowhere.

79 and kicking plenty of ass.
 
ok, a couple things.

First - I couldn't believe when i saw Morning Joe's response to the booing/chanting crowd. What a fucking joke.
Look around the world and see hundreds of thousands of people taking to the streets to stand up to the bullshit happening in their countries. This really should be what is happening here, but the public has been the frog in the boiling pot, lulled into complacency or depression or whatever about our mess here.
The fact that anyone would think that people sit there and politely applaud a man that is a serial sexual assaulter, a pathological liar, a racist, a misogynist, a russian asset, that calls anyone who doesn't support him "human scum" is beyond belief. Fuck him indeed.

This. Trump deserves the same kind of respect he's shown people throughout his entire pathetic life. I'm sick and tired of people talking about how we have to be nice to him or the people who've let him get by with his shit for far too long.

And yes to wanting more protest in this country. There's been some, sure, but this should've been a continuous, nationwide thing and people should be marching on Washington demanding things like election security and getting Trump out of here and whatnot.

Second - a comment on age.
i get not wanting a 70+ candidate. But look at Nancy Pelosi. 79 years old. And she is more skilled at the workings of government than anyone. She has successfully played this from the get go. She has played Rope-a-dope with the entire GOP for the last year.

People were deriding her for not going for impeachment right after Mueller. She gave Trump the rope and he hanged himself.
The witnesses have been timed in a way that has let Repubs argue a certain point publicly for days only to have witness come over and over and destroy the argument.

Why won't Pelosi just bring the inquiry to a vote??? She waited, and let the GOP mob of white male dolts come and storm into a SCIF, and build that argument up, and then she said, ok, we'll be doing a vote and public hearings within weeks. Slapping the goons into reality - where they are realizing - oh shit. Now the public is actually going to hear all of this.

It's been masterfully done.

Good analysis :up:.
 
I respect Joe's opinion only for the fact that it's a good lesson that we should try not to stoop to Trump's level and it's actually a very good indication of what Trump has done to our society in general.

With that said, I think the need to get him out at all costs is so dire that I'm willing to throw the rules out the window. If I ever saw him in person, I can't guarantee that I wouldn't spit in his face and then get thrown in prison for it.
 
Apologies for being glib, but what can you build if you’re dead a year in? Or if you die a week before the election? This isn’t about being morbid, but about medical facts and likelihoods and having the country’s as well as the world’s (to a lesser extent obviously) future hinge on it?
Look, I'm in a tough spot. Generation X does not have anyone in politics at any notable level whose politics come close to aligning with mine. An entire generation punted on actual leftism, and the result is no candidates between the age of 35-75 who can run on a platform like Sanders'.

So I'm banking on him not dying. It's a better bet than trying what we've already tried.
Here we go again with the 'only Sanders' mindset. I remember months ago when you said that, while Bernie was your first choice, you would also enthusiastically support Warren were she the nominee(and that you'd have to hold your nose if it was anybody else). But I guess now that she's surging and seems to actually have a chance, you've backtracked on that?

Before you start thinking I'm a centrist who thinks the only problem is Trump, you should know that my worldview at the moment is this:

Our society is sick, plagued by a virus of corporate malfeasance and a government that aids and abets and even becomes financially indebted to the very corporate entities it is supposed to be policing.

We have a oil and fossil fuel industry that is willing to slowly destroy the planet and pay off politicians to slow the progress of green and renewable energies in the name of protecting their profits.

We have gun industry(and their corporate lobby, the NRA) that has the blood of countless mass shooting victims, not to mention victims of other random gun violence, on its hands, and has no limit to how bloody those hands can get in the name of protecting their profits.

We have an insurance industry that wishes to profit off the illnesses of others and only in the last decade stopped the borderline-inhumane practice of denying coverage to those who need it the most.

We have a pharmaceutical industry that has made unspeakable amounts of money getting people hooked on opiates, people who then probably can't afford the prices that insurance industry charges for treatment. That also plays a significant role in the stupidly high underlying cost of healthcare in this country via its chronic inflation of drug prices.

We have a private prison industry that profits off of incarcerating people who may not belong in prison, who may be better candidates for treatment, or community service, or whatever.

On top of all of this, the fundamental democratic principle of majority rule is being threatened. Twice in the last two decades, a president has entered the WH despite losing the national popular vote. The 60M people in California and New York get 4 senators while the 60M people spread across the, what, 25? least populous states get 50 senators.

All of this while the cost of everything has gone up, up, up over the last several decades while median income has more or less been a straight line, and the wealth gap has grown historically big.

When I think the problems facing us are this dire, I want a president who doesn't have serious health questions and, frankly, one who doesn't inspire the same cult mentality in his supporters as the current occupant of the WH does in his. I've had enough of that.

So I support Warren. You think she's not as legit in her anti-corporate views as Bernie? Then why was it reported that big-money Wall Street Democratic donors said they would support Trump or sit the election out if Warren was the nominee? Why was Mark Zuckerberg caught on tape saying it would 'suck' if Warren were elected? Clearly the corporate sector thinks she is a threat to them, even if you don't.

I could say more, but I'll see if you respond to this first.
I agree with your list of problems.

I disagree that Warren is the right person to start the fight against them based on a couple desperate CEOs trying to swing things back towards the center mid-primary with vague threats of sitting out the election.

They think that she might cost them some money, so they don't like her. They were going to vote for Trump anyway, so who cares?

She can't start a movement. Bernie can. That's my main point. It really is as simple as that. I don't like having to support someone that old. But I don't see a choice.

A great example of my problem with Warren is the leaked details about her healthcare plan. She in one breath says she wants it to be simple, and in the next breath is leaking to Jeff Stein all of the mind-numbing tax code shuffling that defined Hillary Clinton's plans in 2016 that everyone loved to brag about. It's the exact same shit all over again. She is calling her plan "Medicare for All" because the name polls well. She is not proposing Medicare for All.

And let's not act like I did an about-face because Warren surged in the polls. I always thought she was going to surge in the polls. My view of her hasn't really changed at all since I said I would support her against Trump. I said I believe Bernie to be the best choice in the primary, and that I was going to support him throughout. And if he drops out and Warren is the nominee, I'll support her and vote for Trump. But until that point, I'm calling her out on what I think are any number of ways that she falls short of what I am looking for.

But to act like I changed my tune because she started doing well is a crock of shit, and essentially dictated your unwarranted tone for your entire post.
 
So, thrn, you're willing to sacrifice more people to food insecurity, homelessness, illness, death because no one else "fits" your Bernie criteria?
Are you kidding me? Is this whole forum just interested in casting the worst aspersions of anyone who dares criticize their precious fucking Democrats?

I am supporting Sanders because I think a movement led by him is the only way forward to actually fight food insecurity, homeless, illness, and death. I think everyone else's half measure nonsense will fall short and cost the 2020 or 2024 elections, as well as many, many downballot races.

I am voting for Sanders and vocally supporting for the exact reasons you think I am a traitor for doing so. Because I think it's how you help people.

I am getting really sick of your accusatory shit. You read what you want to read and attack me as a person as being selfish. My entire motivation here is to help as many people as possible. If you want to question my logic, fine. But fuck you if you think this is all some vanity thing and that my ego can't handle someone else winning.
 
Again, if he beats warren and Biden he’s my guy. The same worries about Warren and the minority community remain (and so does my thought of why can’t you vote this one time!!!???)
I object to your whole post, but this is based on absolutely nothing. Sanders consistently polls well with minority communities and young people. He is the most popular senator in America despite not polling all that well with elderly white people for a reason.
 
Look, I'm in a tough spot. Generation X does not have anyone in politics at any notable level whose politics come close to aligning with mine. An entire generation punted on actual leftism, and the result is no candidates between the age of 35-75 who can run on a platform like Sanders'.

So I'm banking on him not dying. It's a better bet than trying what we've already tried.

I respect that position and I do understand it.

Though I wonder why you think that the Democrats you have no faith in (essentially 99% of the rest of the party), in combination with today's Republicans, would carry out any sort of revolution that Bernie is selling. Like, overnight they'll become leftist progressives?
 
FOX News co-host, everybody:

Co-host Dana Perino admitted that she never expected that Trump would get booed by the crowd. "I'm proved completely naive," she said. "I was the one who thought the president should go to the game. I never thought he would get booed. I thought Americans won't do that, Americans would cheer."

I told you, these people are all totally delusional.
 
I object to your whole post, but this is based on absolutely nothing. Sanders consistently polls well with minority communities and young people. He is the most popular senator in America despite not polling all that well with elderly white people for a reason.



Where do you see this ? How did Sanders do in the southern primary states in 2016?

Why would 2020 be different ?
 
Where do you see this ? How did Sanders do in the southern primary states in 2016?

Why would 2020 be different ?




The second “most popular” Senator in America is also from Vermont — Pat Lahey.

It’s a misleading framing — it’s not that Bernie is the most popular Senator in the eyes of the US, it’s that he’s the most popular (as measured by his approval rating) with his (600,000 mostly white) constituents in comparison to the other 100 Senators.
 
Among women who did not attend college, Trump’s favorable rating stands at just 46 percent; he won that group with 61 percent of the vote in 2016. Among suburban women, only a quarter, 26 percent, approve of Trump.

Suburban women especially appear motivated to make their disapproval felt: Eighty-eight percent of suburban women said they would definitely vote in the 2020 presidential election, 10 points higher than voters overall.

Bring it home, ladies.
 
My daughter just won class President. I’m proud to say that she did so without accepting help from foreign powers.

NO COLLUSION!
 
I respect that position and I do understand it.

Though I wonder why you think that the Democrats you have no faith in (essentially 99% of the rest of the party), in combination with today's Republicans, would carry out any sort of revolution that Bernie is selling. Like, overnight they'll become leftist progressives?
The revolution comes not from electoral politics, but from the confirmation to the masses that organizing still has a place. The election of Sanders would embolden protest movements and labor organization. Which is the only chance we have of enacting real change. It has to start from the masses, and I don't see any other candidate who has come anywhere close to building the sort of coalition at that level which could have a real impact.
 
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