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Old 10-24-2019, 03:39 PM   #141
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Matt Gaetz is a stupid and dangerous simpleton and has one of the most punchable faces in Congress. Which is saying a lot these days. If there is a list of people who will lead to the most joy when booted out of office, he has got to be in the top 10.

On a separate note, can we talk about Bernie Sanders continuing to run with his known health issues? Let me preface this by saying that while I was never a huge Sanders supporter, I also wasn't one who was particularly irritated by the Bernie Bros (maybe because I am older and female, but I simply don't have much exposure to that group), and I do think that the DNC had it out for him in 2016. I also think that the left owes him a debt of gratitude for moving the discussion and policies leftward en masse. The reason all these candidates are where they are today is because Bernie normalized progressive ideas in the mainstream. Anyone who does not give him credit for that is delusional.

However, the man is nearly 80 and has had a heart attack and surgery. His odds of a follow up heart attack are significant given his age and the fact he just suffered one. How can anyone in good faith continue to support his candidacy knowing this? Is it not enough that the country is essentially hanging on by a thread hoping that a nearly-90-year-old woman who has some form of cancer every year or so manages to hold on for another 15 months? Is there not the recognition that in order to reverse course you need a 2-term presidency, and the odds of Bernie even living that long is questionable, nevermind getting elected a second time.

And then you see his supporters post insane things like "I'd rather have 1 year of Bernie than 8 years of Warren" (how divorced from reality do you have to be?). Do they not see Donald fucking Trump on TV every day, engaging in 10 different sorts of criminality before noon on the regular?
Well you may not have had the BernieBro experience, but going by your last paragraph, you are familiar with the infuriating Bernie or Bust, No one but Bernie is a true progressive crowd.

I have to agree, My next door neighbor who is in his 60's had a heart attack, stents put in, and now has had 3 more heart attacks in a year. More stents, surgery, etc...
It has noticeably slowed him down and taken its toll on his day to day.

This is sort of the same mentality where Bernie continued on in the primaries far beyond any point that he was going to be able to win, and going onto the convention, pretty much demanding that his platform be melded in with the DNC's. And Clinton met with him and included some major shifts to her policies in a gesture to reach out to Bernie supporters, but that still didn't stop Bernie fans from disrupting the convention. In the end I'm glad it pushed Clinton left, but Bernie's pride seemed to keep him from ever giving a true, full endorsement of Clinton, and that was all that many Bernie or Busters needed to continue tearing Clinton down during the general.

So this is the group that still unfortunately still exists, although at a smaller scale this time around. The hate i've seen thrown at Warren from them has been pretty stiff in the last month or so.
I like Bernie and do acknowledge how much he has brought to the table policy wise. It's been invaluable to keeping the party where they should and need to be.

But I cannot see that he is a viable candidate any longer. People need to hitch their wagon elsewhere in my opinion. And if Bernie really wanted to do what is best for the country and the party and not just keep him in the spotlight. He would step aside and emphatically support Warren, actively implore his base to follow, hand over his donor lists and really make a difference. He would be looked upon as a selfless progressive warrior that wants to make sure Trump is gone in 2020.
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Old 10-24-2019, 03:41 PM   #142
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Matt Gaetz is a stupid and dangerous simpleton and has one of the most punchable faces in Congress. Which is saying a lot these days. If there is a list of people who will lead to the most joy when booted out of office, he has got to be in the top 10.

On a separate note, can we talk about Bernie Sanders continuing to run with his known health issues? Let me preface this by saying that while I was never a huge Sanders supporter, I also wasn't one who was particularly irritated by the Bernie Bros (maybe because I am older and female, but I simply don't have much exposure to that group), and I do think that the DNC had it out for him in 2016. I also think that the left owes him a debt of gratitude for moving the discussion and policies leftward en masse. The reason all these candidates are where they are today is because Bernie normalized progressive ideas in the mainstream. Anyone who does not give him credit for that is delusional.

However, the man is nearly 80 and has had a heart attack and surgery. His odds of a follow up heart attack are significant given his age and the fact he just suffered one. How can anyone in good faith continue to support his candidacy knowing this? Is it not enough that the country is essentially hanging on by a thread hoping that a nearly-90-year-old woman who has some form of cancer every year or so manages to hold on for another 15 months? Is there not the recognition that in order to reverse course you need a 2-term presidency, and the odds of Bernie even living that long is questionable, nevermind getting elected a second time.

And then you see his supporters post insane things like "I'd rather have 1 year of Bernie than 8 years of Warren" (how divorced from reality do you have to be?). Do they not see Donald fucking Trump on TV every day, engaging in 10 different sorts of criminality before noon on the regular?
I'd tattoo this on my face if it was socially acceptable.
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Old 10-24-2019, 03:47 PM   #143
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Right, but members of Congress do not necessarily need clearances to access their SCIF. It’s sort of stupid... but you electing them is their clearance. plebes are required years of our lives dug up but politicians are granted “need to know” access without a clearance. They take oaths of secrecy - that’s it. If they disobey the rules of a SCIF, there is no law or entity that can make them face repercussions except for congress itself. Basically, it becomes political. So, basically, Congress is permitted to put our national security at risk without any individual risk to their careers, unlike the rest of us.
Yeah, there seriously needs to be some laws rewritten after the garbage dump of Trump. Politicians, all the way up to the president need to be held criminally accountable for their actions.

Trumps lawyers are arguing a president cannot be arrested, charged, detained, investigated, indicted, or jailed for anything while president.

So in a far out hypothetical. A president in their first year could kill someone in broad daylight, and go along with the rest of their day. Well they would be impeached and then face charges right? Well, then what if they openly bribe house members with millions of dollars to not impeach them? What if they just have members of the senate killed where there wouldn't be enough votes to impeach him?

It's insane, but these are the possibilities.

It has become obvious that a lot of the "rules" set by the constitution were only good if the people in office were good enough people to follow them. They are not.
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Old 10-24-2019, 03:49 PM   #144
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Trumps lawyers are arguing a president cannot be arrested, charged, detained, investigated, indicted, or jailed for anything while president.
The logical extension of that argument is that next time Nancy Pelosi wags her finger at him, he pops her off.
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Old 10-24-2019, 04:03 PM   #145
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I was on the, 'why weren't they arrested' hype train yesterday, but watching how idiotic they've all looked in interviews today, I'm starting to be glad they weren't.
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Old 10-24-2019, 04:19 PM   #146
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Yeah, there seriously needs to be some laws rewritten after the garbage dump of Trump. Politicians, all the way up to the president need to be held criminally accountable for their actions.
Yeah your system places a lot of faith and goodwill in the President and the White House in general doing the right thing.

You also have executive privilege which seems like a joke to me. On what basis does this exist?
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:01 PM   #147
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:22 PM   #148
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Gabbard, like Stein, is absolutely supported by the Kremlin and will run 3rd Party.

I wonder if she’ll harm Trump more, though. As we’ve noted, some conservatives sure seem to like her.
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:25 PM   #149
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Gabbard, like Stein, is absolutely supported by the Kremlin and will run 3rd Party.

I wonder if she’ll harm Trump more, though. As we’ve noted, some conservatives sure seem to like her.
That Hillary is SO crazy isn't she?
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:36 PM   #150
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Matt Gaetz is a stupid and dangerous simpleton and has one of the most punchable faces in Congress. Which is saying a lot these days. If there is a list of people who will lead to the most joy when booted out of office, he has got to be in the top 10.

On a separate note, can we talk about Bernie Sanders continuing to run with his known health issues? Let me preface this by saying that while I was never a huge Sanders supporter, I also wasn't one who was particularly irritated by the Bernie Bros (maybe because I am older and female, but I simply don't have much exposure to that group), and I do think that the DNC had it out for him in 2016. I also think that the left owes him a debt of gratitude for moving the discussion and policies leftward en masse. The reason all these candidates are where they are today is because Bernie normalized progressive ideas in the mainstream. Anyone who does not give him credit for that is delusional.

However, the man is nearly 80 and has had a heart attack and surgery. His odds of a follow up heart attack are significant given his age and the fact he just suffered one. How can anyone in good faith continue to support his candidacy knowing this? Is it not enough that the country is essentially hanging on by a thread hoping that a nearly-90-year-old woman who has some form of cancer every year or so manages to hold on for another 15 months? Is there not the recognition that in order to reverse course you need a 2-term presidency, and the odds of Bernie even living that long is questionable, nevermind getting elected a second time.

And then you see his supporters post insane things like "I'd rather have 1 year of Bernie than 8 years of Warren" (how divorced from reality do you have to be?). Do they not see Donald fucking Trump on TV every day, engaging in 10 different sorts of criminality before noon on the regular?
There is only one candidate who I believe could build the sort of movement that could actually enact change. Electoral politics cannot get everything done on their own. And only Sanders could actually rally laborers, young people, and non-voters to make real change possible.

I wish there was a younger candidate without health concerns running who had the same vision. There isn't.
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:43 PM   #151
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There is only one candidate who I believe could build the sort of movement that could actually enact change. Electoral politics cannot get everything done on their own. And only Sanders could actually rally laborers, young people, and non-voters to make real change possible.



I wish there was a younger candidate without health concerns running who had the same vision. There isn't.


Apologies for being glib, but what can you build if you’re dead a year in? Or if you die a week before the election? This isn’t about being morbid, but about medical facts and likelihoods and having the country’s as well as the world’s (to a lesser extent obviously) future hinge on it?
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:28 PM   #152
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If you continue to let people break the law and face no consequences, eventually you’ll be the one locked up because you have no more power

Stop worrying about optics and follow the law. His base is going to scream and shoot people regardless.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:36 PM   #153
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Apologies for being glib, but what can you build if you’re dead a year in? Or if you die a week before the election? This isn’t about being morbid, but about medical facts and likelihoods and having the country’s as well as the world’s (to a lesser extent obviously) future hinge on it?


you can do a lot as a Force Ghost.
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Old 10-24-2019, 08:48 PM   #154
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US Politics XVII: Yes, squid pro row

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/stat...461896704?s=21

Trump/Barr going after their opponents for opening the investigation


https://twitter.com/ruthbenghiat/sta...084646914?s=21

And think the courts will reject it ? Not with what the GOP has done in the senate


https://twitter.com/jbendery/status/...322909697?s=21
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Old 10-24-2019, 08:58 PM   #155
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So why weren't any of the GOP congressmen arrested yesterday for their stunt? If I attempted what they did, you know damn well I'd be behind bars right now. I'd lose my job too.

This is where my frustration with Pelosi and other Dems really hits the nerve. Dems send harsh letters and twitter updates. Nancy has literally done nothing but photo ops.

Their inaction yesterday shows that the laws don't apply to the GOP. Want to continue to lose minority interest.....then continue to prove the point there's no punishment if you're white and in power.

The GOP will get worse and worse the longer the impeachment process goes and no punishment for their behavior. Subpoenas???
They wanted to get arrested because if they got arrested it would be a huge talking point for the republicans and they would be saying how they were infringed on their rights etc. It would have been a major distraction and it would have backfired on the dems. I think Pelosi did the right thing here by not having anyone arrested. The last thing we need is more conspiracy theories by the republicans. And you know trump would have been spewing more BS about the arrests. It would have not ended well for the Dems for sure.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:31 AM   #156
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There is only one candidate who I believe could build the sort of movement that could actually enact change. Electoral politics cannot get everything done on their own. And only Sanders could actually rally laborers, young people, and non-voters to make real change possible.

I wish there was a younger candidate without health concerns running who had the same vision. There isn't.
Here we go again with the 'only Sanders' mindset. I remember months ago when you said that, while Bernie was your first choice, you would also enthusiastically support Warren were she the nominee(and that you'd have to hold your nose if it was anybody else). But I guess now that she's surging and seems to actually have a chance, you've backtracked on that?

Before you start thinking I'm a centrist who thinks the only problem is Trump, you should know that my worldview at the moment is this:

Our society is sick, plagued by a virus of corporate malfeasance and a government that aids and abets and even becomes financially indebted to the very corporate entities it is supposed to be policing.

We have a oil and fossil fuel industry that is willing to slowly destroy the planet and pay off politicians to slow the progress of green and renewable energies in the name of protecting their profits.

We have gun industry(and their corporate lobby, the NRA) that has the blood of countless mass shooting victims, not to mention victims of other random gun violence, on its hands, and has no limit to how bloody those hands can get in the name of protecting their profits.

We have an insurance industry that wishes to profit off the illnesses of others and only in the last decade stopped the borderline-inhumane practice of denying coverage to those who need it the most.

We have a pharmaceutical industry that has made unspeakable amounts of money getting people hooked on opiates, people who then probably can't afford the prices that insurance industry charges for treatment. That also plays a significant role in the stupidly high underlying cost of healthcare in this country via its chronic inflation of drug prices.

We have a private prison industry that profits off of incarcerating people who may not belong in prison, who may be better candidates for treatment, or community service, or whatever.

On top of all of this, the fundamental democratic principle of majority rule is being threatened. Twice in the last two decades, a president has entered the WH despite losing the national popular vote. The 60M people in California and New York get 4 senators while the 60M people spread across the, what, 25? least populous states get 50 senators.

All of this while the cost of everything has gone up, up, up over the last several decades while median income has more or less been a straight line, and the wealth gap has grown historically big.

When I think the problems facing us are this dire, I want a president who doesn't have serious health questions and, frankly, one who doesn't inspire the same cult mentality in his supporters as the current occupant of the WH does in his. I've had enough of that.

So I support Warren. You think she's not as legit in her anti-corporate views as Bernie? Then why was it reported that big-money Wall Street Democratic donors said they would support Trump or sit the election out if Warren was the nominee? Why was Mark Zuckerberg caught on tape saying it would 'suck' if Warren were elected? Clearly the corporate sector thinks she is a threat to them, even if you don't.

I could say more, but I'll see if you respond to this first.
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Old 10-25-2019, 02:21 AM   #157
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I will say this about the concerns regarding Warren/Biden/Bernie's ages: at least with any one of them, I know that if, God forbid, something were to happen while they were in office, I wouldn't be scared at the thought of their VP taking over, because I know they'd pick somebody worthwhile. I sense that's a big reason their ages don't bother some other Democratic voters as well.

That said, I do think the concerns are valid and worth addressing. And I do think it's funny that for all the talk and concern about young people not voting more often, the frontrunners continue to be the old guard of politicians, instead of the numerous younger candidates that are also running. Yes, there are young people who support Bernie, Warren, and Biden, but I can also see a lot of young people being frustrated that yet again, Washington continues to skew old, even when it comes to the party they support. It'd be especially interesting to see a younger candidate going up against Trump in a debate. Could be reminiscent of the Kennedy/Nixon debates in that way (or hell, Obama/McCain, for that matter).
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Old 10-25-2019, 07:36 AM   #158
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Old 10-25-2019, 07:52 AM   #159
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Heh, heh...

Morning, peeps. Im usually not up this early , let alone out already w wifi
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Old 10-25-2019, 08:03 AM   #160
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Matt Gaetz is a stupid and dangerous simpleton and has one of the most punchable faces in Congress. Which is saying a lot these days. If there is a list of people who will lead to the most joy when booted out of office, he has got to be in the top 10.

On a separate note, can we talk about Bernie Sanders continuing to run with his known health issues? Let me preface this by saying that while I was never a huge Sanders supporter, I also wasn't one who was particularly irritated by the Bernie Bros (maybe because I am older and female, but I simply don't have much exposure to that group), and I do think that the DNC had it out for him in 2016. I also think that the left owes him a debt of gratitude for moving the discussion and policies leftward en masse. The reason all these candidates are where they are today is because Bernie normalized progressive ideas in the mainstream. Anyone who does not give him credit for that is delusional.

However, the man is nearly 80 and has had a heart attack and surgery. His odds of a follow up heart attack are significant given his age and the fact he just suffered one. How can anyone in good faith continue to support his candidacy knowing this? Is it not enough that the country is essentially hanging on by a thread hoping that a nearly-90-year-old woman who has some form of cancer every year or so manages to hold on for another 15 months? Is there not the recognition that in order to reverse course you need a 2-term presidency, and the odds of Bernie even living that long is questionable, nevermind getting elected a second time.

And then you see his supporters post insane things like "I'd rather have 1 year of Bernie than 8 years of Warren" (how divorced from reality do you have to be?). Do they not see Donald fucking Trump on TV every day, engaging in 10 different sorts of criminality before noon on the regular?
We have a minimum age of 35 to be elected President. Frankly we should also have a maximum age (Maybe say 70 so if you serve 2 terms you'll be 78 at the end),

Should probably also be a mandatory retirement age for the Supreme Court as well and if there was one RBG might have retired during Obama's administration.
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