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Old 12-13-2019, 08:41 AM   #1001
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Anecdotally, I got the sense that a lot of people in the UK were really sick of the status quo and the Brexit quagmire. Boris Johnson was at least seen to have some sort of a definitive plan.

But I totally agree that Brexit is its own beast and doesn't really have an analogy to the US situation.

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Old 12-13-2019, 09:13 AM   #1002
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This is who the GOP is

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Old 12-13-2019, 09:19 AM   #1003
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I do think that impeachment needs to get done quickly. The GOP will let Donald Trump shoot someone on 5th Avenue, so let’s get it done in the house so that he is appropriately reprimanded for his high crimes — the most institutionally irresponsible thing would be to let him get away with it, Russia does not get to do whatever it pleases via its White House asset with no consequences — and then let the senate vote along basic party lines, and then move on with life and get to the job of the 2020 election that will beasically come down to Wisconsin.
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:24 AM   #1004
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Originally Posted by Vlad n U 2 View Post
Nationalisation of key industries actually has quite a strong popularity throughout the country - but this election result is almost entirely on Brexit and getting it done. The Tories had a shit campaign, had no policies other than Brexit, Boris ran away and hid in fridges and yet.

It has just been a thoroughly warped election where it turns out that the debilitating tremors in the British system will only be further exacerbated, I think it's smashed a lot of my preconceptions about having a fully costed, reasonable social democratic program going into an election.

What Corbyn offered WAS a social democratic platform, which may have only seemed radical when you consider just how far to the right British politics had moved. Nationalisation of rail/mail etc. and no student tuition fees are not radical positions.

It's important to mention that Corbyn has had his character continually assassinated (and he's for the most part, an incredibly mild, agreeable man in character) by the right wing press (and even centrist outlets like The Guardian) ever since he was voted in to the leadership which has contributed to his low popularity. The UK media will do this to any Labour leader even vaguely progressive (they did the same to Ed Miliband, who ran on a pretty pedestrian centrist platform in 2015), unless they grovel to the far right tabloids like Blair did.

I'm not exactly sure how much you can apply this result to the US next year, Brexit really is a bizarre concoction.

I wasn’t calling Labour’s policies “radical,” just rather that there’s a heck of a lot of voters who vote conservative in the UK, and that party has next to no identity. It spans from left center to far right right now. Corbyn has positioned labour to be firmly and soft nationalist. Voters who wanted Brexit in labour didn’t see a clear thesis from him.

By the 90s labour was reinvented as a centrist left party. I’m not saying I disagree with a lot of Corbyn’s views ... stuff like re-nationalizing rail and fixing tuition are things I support. I’m just saying that the people in the UK didn’t have any opportunity to evade him because he occupies the space that their left center is at. So the left had no strong anti-Brexit coalition and he was still an easy Brexit target from the right (he didn’t not not not not not not not want it if you followed his words carefully).

It’s not just character assassination. Corbyn was generally inept in some areas, particularly politics, despite good views.
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:26 AM   #1005
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Time for the next thread.

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