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Old 12-06-2019, 06:31 AM   #921
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
And Biden has buried more children than anyone ever should.
Yes that's for sure. I completely understand him from that point of view. That's when he's at his best, talking about grief and loss. That episode of the View, when he reached out to Meghan McCain, was real and a tear jerker.
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:19 AM   #922
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i think he has a certain % of the electorate that's Bernie or, well, bust. and as Warren has been attacked, Harris has dropped out, Biden is having his issues ... there's a scrambling/shaking up of support. whereas his folks are all in. maybe that will be enough? i really would like to see him debate Trump. imagine two old egomaniacal New York men yelling at each other on a downtown bus.

the blowback on Sanders as the nominee would be terrifying, as will be the piles of oppo research they've already assembled, but here's one conservative who would prefer a Sanders presidency, over the others:
You have said this many times as if it's common knowledge. What oppo research are they saving up? Sanders has been attacked by everyone to his right for the better part of four years. What are they holding back to spring on him now?

Also, that Douthat column is a cynical ploy to give upper middle class NYT readers ammo that Sanders is weak on social issues.
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:43 AM   #923
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This is a good ad, and candidates should do this more often

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/...644865024?s=19
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Old 12-06-2019, 10:41 AM   #924
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Joe was hungry on the campaign trail (no malarkey or food on his bus) so he nibbled on his wife's finger. Yes he really did that..

Attachment 12379
Looks like Nosferatu taking a life sustaining drink of blood from his wife's finger
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:05 AM   #925
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You have said this many times as if it's common knowledge. What oppo research are they saving up? Sanders has been attacked by everyone to his right for the better part of four years. What are they holding back to spring on him now?
generally, Sanders has had a generally easy political life. he been elected forever in a tiny, white state, only facing real opposition when he switches parties to run as a Democrat, like he did in 2016 and 2020. since his core supporters are loyal/fanatical, no one wants to risk alienating them, his opponents go very gentle on him.

but the oppo is there, and has been:

Quote:
So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers.

Here are a few tastes of what was in store for Sanders, straight out of the Republican playbook: He thinks rape is A-OK. In 1972, when he was 31, Sanders wrote a fictitious essay in which he described a woman enjoying being raped by three men. Yes, there is an explanation for it—a long, complicated one, just like the one that would make clear why the Clinton emails story was nonsense. And we all know how well that worked out.

Then there's the fact that Sanders was on unemployment until his mid-30s, and that he stole electricity from a neighbor after failing to pay his bills, and that he co-sponsored a bill to ship Vermont's nuclear waste to a poor Hispanic community in Texas, where it could be dumped. You can just see the words "environmental racist" on Republican billboards. And if you can't, I already did. They were in the Republican opposition research book as a proposal on how to frame the nuclear waste issue.

Also on the list: Sanders violated campaign finance laws, criticized Clinton for supporting the 1994 crime bill that he voted for, and he voted against the Amber Alert system. His pitch for universal health care would have been used against him too, since it was tried in his home state of Vermont and collapsed due to excessive costs. Worst of all, the Republicans also had video of Sanders at a 1985 rally thrown by the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua where half a million people chanted, "Here, there, everywhere/the Yankee will die,'' while President Daniel Ortega condemned "state terrorism" by America. Sanders said, on camera, supporting the Sandinistas was "patriotic."

The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I don't know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.

https://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-...lection-521044
this combined with the toxic word "socialist" ... big risks, and total field day for the COC conservatives who despise Trump, but also despise taxes.

I do think an advantage he has is one that Trump has -- his supporters believe Bernie before they believe anything or anyone else. Bernie is the prism through which information is understood, much like Trump is that prism for his base. this is clearly a powerful weapon in politics, as it won Trump the presidency in 2016. perhaps it is the best strategy to send up a left wing Trump and see if he can work the same magic but on the opposite side of the political spectrum.

i am all for whoever will best beat Trump. so if we see evidence that Sanders is the best candidate to win, that he can out Trump Trump, then i will support him.

all i care about is sending Trump to his political grave.



Quote:
Also, that Douthat column is a cynical ploy to give upper middle class NYT readers ammo that Sanders is weak on social issues.
"fake news," i guess.
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:45 AM   #926
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all i care about is sending Trump to his political grave.
This is what most voters care about.
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Old 12-06-2019, 12:10 PM   #927
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Also, that Douthat column is a cynical ploy to give upper middle class NYT readers ammo that Sanders is weak on social issues.
You may think so but anecdotally I think the point of the article is absolutely right on.

My husband meets, as part of his job, with multi-millionaire Americans on the daily and not a single one wants Sanders. Most of them were actually willing to vote for Elizabeth Warren (which I think you've pointed out, in a negative way before), but they will vote Trump over Bernie. And that makes absolute sense because this crowd does not give a tenth of a fuck about abortion, gays or anything other than their tax returns and earnings statements.
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Old 12-06-2019, 02:45 PM   #928
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This is what most voters care about.


on this subject, what are we to do with/make of a rip-roaring economy in a country with 3.5% unemployment?

might some say that the juice is worth the orange it's squeezed out of?
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Old 12-06-2019, 02:52 PM   #929
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on this subject, what are we to do with/make of a rip-roaring economy in a country with 3.5% unemployment?

might some say that the juice is worth the orange it's squeezed out of?
Lots of people vote with their wallets, so that's what gives him a decent chance at re-election right now. If the economy falters noticeably in the next 10-11 months his only real hope fades, but if not, Dems better have the right candidate.
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:18 PM   #930
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on this subject, what are we to do with/make of a rip-roaring economy in a country with 3.5% unemployment?



might some say that the juice is worth the orange it's squeezed out of?
This is what I think it means

1) that his numbers in swing States are currently so bad for him shows exactly how much of a clusterfuck he is, and the GOP would be smart to dump him out back like the sack of garbage he is. Alas, we know that's not happening... which leads us to two...

2) the economy flying and unemployment so low means that a candidate who's promising vast changes to the economy won't do well in the geenral - and that the vast electorate will ignore income inequality and wage stagnation and other more nuanced reasons of why our economy is not as good as it seems because we, as a nation, are dumb twits with the attention span of a golden retriever and need things presented to us in pithy, easy to digest marketing slogans.

I'll sit back and ignore the flaming about moderate Democrats and all that shit, ignoring that I didn't say they were wrong, only that we're a nation of morons - which makes right or wrong largely insignificant in national elections.
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:21 PM   #931
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Younger people are not content with employment and “the economy” because it has written them out. The economy doesn’t mean shit.

The low turnout to vote amongst young people and high turnout of old people does. Younger people need to vote.
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:24 PM   #932
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Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
2) the economy flying and unemployment so low means that a candidate who's promising vast changes to the economy won't do well in the geenral - and that the vast electorate will ignore income inequality and wage stagnation and other more nuanced reasons of why our economy is not as good as it seems because we, as a nation, are dumb twits with the attention span of a golden retriever and need things presented to us in pithy, easy to digest marketing slogans.
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:35 PM   #933
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There it is
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:36 PM   #934
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Younger people are not content with employment and “the economy” because it has written them out. The economy doesn’t mean shit.

The low turnout to vote amongst young people and high turnout of old people does. Younger people need to vote.
Correct.

Except they don't.
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Old 12-06-2019, 10:08 PM   #935
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There it is
i was just making a reference to a tv show.
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Old 12-06-2019, 10:09 PM   #936
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Originally Posted by Jerry Dunk;8Qaeda317816
Also, that Douthat column is a cynical ploy to give upper middle class NYT readers ammo that Sanders is weak on social issues.
I assume u r referring to NYT readers as upper middle class in this particular case. Not everyone who reads the NYT is upper mc.

And BTW I did apologize to you, if you'd care to read it - i'd forgot a key thing you had said which made me react that way.


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generally, Sanders has had a generally easy political life. he been elected forever in a tiny, white state, only facing real opposition when he switches parties to run as a Democrat, like he did in 2016 and 2020. since his core supporters are loyal/fanatical, no one wants to risk alienating them, his opponents go very gentle on him.

but the oppo is there, and has been:


all i care about is sending Trump to his political grave.
And jail, hopefully!

as for Bernie? Holy crackers! re oppo stuff. I'd like to see the documentation on all that.

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You may think so but anecdotally I think the point of the article is absolutely right on.

My husband meets, as part of his job, with multi-millionaire Americans on the daily and not a single one wants Sanders. Most of them were actually willing to vote for Elizabeth Warren (which I think you've pointed out, in a negative way before), but they will vote Trump over Bernie. And that makes absolute sense because this crowd does not give a tenth of a fuck about abortion, gays or anything other than their tax returns and earnings statements.
Wow. Some of them would consider Warren?
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Younger people are not content with employment and “the economy” because it has written them out. The economy doesn’t mean shit.

The low turnout to vote amongst young people and high turnout of old people does. Younger people need to vote.
As a younger people, once... I couldn't wait to vote! I was in the very first wave of 18 yr olds yo vote in '71. I've hardly ever missed a vote.
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Old 12-07-2019, 08:36 AM   #937
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This is a bit of law-geekery on my part but I have posted here many times over probably a decade about Professor Pam Karlan and why I wish that Obama had nominated her. She is just not taking the GOP's shit.
Yeah, yet another uber liberal professor who wants to indoctrinate young people with their own beliefs rather than teaching them how to think. We don't NEARLY have enough of those in America. 😑
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Old 12-07-2019, 10:57 AM   #938
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Dude I look across this thread and see many people with many viewpoints. Not enough on the right, yes, but when I think of people who are “indoctrinated” I think of you first and foremost.
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Old 12-07-2019, 12:12 PM   #939
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https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/stat...440955393?s=21

Voting isn’t American
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Old 12-07-2019, 12:35 PM   #940
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It takes a special kind of dolt to chime in immediately after some chirping back and forth between moderate and leftist posters to play the indoctrination card.
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