US Politics XVII: Yes, squid pro row

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Mrs. Garrison said:
Was Tru-DOH wearing blackface again?
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Blackface does trump Two-Faced. Or does it? :D

twoface_thumbnail_v2.jpg
 
This is a bit of law-geekery on my part but I have posted here many times over probably a decade about Professor Pam Karlan and why I wish that Obama had nominated her. She is just not taking the GOP's shit.
 
anitram said:
This is a bit of law-geekery on my part but I have posted here many times over probably a decade about Professor Pam Karlan and why I wish that Obama had nominated her. She is just not taking the GOP's shit.
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I remember, actually.

I had never seen or heard her speak before. Her clips totally lived up to the hype.
 
Hillary Clinton went on the Howard Stern show, they were just talking about it on CNN. She said after Trump's inauguration speech George Bush Jr (they were sitting next to each other) said to her "well that was some weird shit". Lol

I'd love to hear that entire interview.
 
Anybody with an ounce of class and decorum sees Trump as an uncivilized fucking moron. Even W.
 
anitram said:
Anybody with an ounce of class and decorum sees Trump as an uncivilized fucking moron. Even W.
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Absolutely. Hillary also said that she should have done more media appearances because Trump was all over the airwaves 24/7. The CNN talking heads started basically scolding her for not doing that when they were the ones who whored themselves out to Trump for ratings on a daily basis. I bet he was on CNN more than he was on Fox at the time.

Dana Bash said that if Hillary had shown the side of herself that she showed in the Stern interview that would have made a difference in the election results. I don't agree with that, that clown would have been elected anyway.
 
Revolting.

I also worry that a lot of the W years will be seen as "not that bad" when compared to Trump which will thus let W (and worse yet, Cheney, Rummy and the whole lot of them) off the hook for things that happened in places far away from the American public.

I think that the main differences between Trump and W is that W didn't cook up his administration's plans and actions himself. He is not that bright, definitely not that ambitious, and not well versed on any sort of policy. But people like Cheney were there to step in and push him in the right direction because he was pre-disposed to act in the Middle East because of the Persian Gulf war and his personal family history in that respect. He is not intelligent or introspective enough and he's most certainly not a leader, so he was a very useful tool. It doesn't excuse anything that was done when he was the President, I'm merely talking about his intent.

All the worst things that Trump has done, on the other hand, are his own bright "ideas". Yes, you have ghouls like Stephen Miller pushing their white nationalist idiocies down, but Trump agrees with all of them (and maybe worse than that). Unlike in W's case, where the evil and totally amoral people like Dick Cheney dictated which way is up and which way is down and W followed along, it's Trump who pushes the most heinous notions forward himself and some members of the bureaucracy and even his cabinet (Mattis, Tillerson, etc) trying to moderate what he's doing or at least mitigate to some extent.

Trump is just a total dumpster fire of a human being. The sooner he fucks off this earth, the better we will all be. I hope he eats 10 hamberders today.
 
Also interesting to see that Bernie is having a massive comeback, leading in California now.

While I prefer Warren as a candidate, I do find it sort of hilarious that the centrists and billionaires together were so obsessed about shitting all over her for her M4A plan that they might actually get stuck with a self-avowed socialist. Heckuva job. Maybe it's karma.
 
anitram said:
Also interesting to see that Bernie is having a massive comeback, leading in California now.
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i think he has a certain % of the electorate that's Bernie or, well, bust. and as Warren has been attacked, Harris has dropped out, Biden is having his issues ... there's a scrambling/shaking up of support. whereas his folks are all in. maybe that will be enough? i really would like to see him debate Trump. imagine two old egomaniacal New York men yelling at each other on a downtown bus.

the blowback on Sanders as the nominee would be terrifying, as will be the piles of oppo research they've already assembled, but here's one conservative who would prefer a Sanders presidency, over the others:

That decent polling, I suspect, reflects a sense among voters drawn to populism that Bernie is different from not only the more centrist candidates — latecomers Michael Bloomberg and Deval Patrick especially, but Buttigieg as well — but also from his fellow left-winger, Warren, who has fully embraced the culture-war breadth of the new progressivism while Sanders remains, fundamentally, an economic-policy monomaniac.

He’s still a social liberal, of course, and he isn’t in the culturally conservative/economic populist quadrant where so many unrepresented voters reside. But for the kind of American who is mostly with the Democrats on economics but wary of progressivism’s zest for culture war, Sanders’s socialism might be strangely reassuring — as a signal of what he actually cares about, and what battles he might eschew for the sake of his anti-plutocratic goals. (At the very least he’s no more radical on an issue like abortion than a studied moderate like Mayor Pete.)

This is why, despite technically preferring a moderate like Biden or Amy Klobuchar, I keep coming back to the conservative’s case for Bernie — which rests on the perhaps-wrong but still attractive supposition that he’s the liberal most likely to spend all his time trying to tax the rich and leave cultural conservatives alone.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/30/opinion/sunday/bernie-sanders.html
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He's baaaack.....

Ghouliani in Ukraine, that is.
From Bloomberg News



Bloomberg
Giuliani Is in Kyiv, and Ukrainian Officials Are Steering Clear
Stephanie Baker and Daryna Krasnolutska 54 mins ago
Trump: 'If you are going to impeach me, do it now, fast'
Analysis: Impeachment's next phase could hit Biden
In this handout photo provided by Adriii Derkach's press office, Rudy Giuliani, an attorney for U.S President Donald Trump, left, meets with Ukrainian lawmaker Adriii Derkach in Kyiv, Ukraine, Thursday, Dec. 5, 2019. A Ukrainian lawmaker says he has met up with Rudy Giuliani, President Donald Trump’s personal attorney, in Kyiv to discuss an anti-corruption project. Derkach, who has previously accused the son of former Vice President Joe Biden of embezzling money from a gas company in Ukraine, posted photos of Thursday’s meeting on his Facebook page. (Adriii Derkach's press office via AP)
Next Slide
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1/3 SLIDES © ASSOCIATED PRESS
In this handout photo provided by Adriii Derkach's press office, Rudy Giuliani, an attorney for U.S President Donald Trump, left, meets with Ukrainian lawmaker Adriii Derkach in Kyiv, Ukraine, Thursday, Dec. 5, 2019. A Ukrainian lawmaker says he has met up with Rudy Giuliani, President Donald Trump’s personal attorney, in Kyiv to discuss an anti-corruption project. Derkach, who has previously accused the son of former Vice President Joe Biden of embezzling money from a gas company in Ukraine, posted photos of Thursday’s meeting on his Facebook page. (Adriii Derkach's press office via AP)
(Bloomberg) -- Rudy Giuliani, whose work in Ukraine is at the heart of U.S. impeachment proceedings, is back in the country -- and officials in Kyiv appear to be keeping their distance.
People with knowledge of his trip say Giuliani flew into Kyiv from Budapest on Wednesday, the same day that U.S. hearings stemming from his shadow diplomacy in Ukraine kicked over to the House Judiciary Committee. Social media postings show him meeting with current and previous Ukrainian political figures as part of a cable news documentary series that’s critical of the impeachment inquiry.

But President Volodymyr Zelenskiy of Ukraine won’t be meeting with him, according to the president’s spokeswoman. Igor Kolomoisky, a Ukrainian billionaire who had ties to Zelenskiy, also said he wasn’t planning to meet Giuliani. Zelenskiy’s predecessor, Petro Poroshenko, met Giuliani twice in Kyiv in 2017; through a spokesman, he, too, said he had no plans to see Giuliani during his trip.

Andriy Yermak, a key aide to Zelenskiy who figured prominently in the House’s impeachment report, was in London for a conference on Ukraine. He also said he wasn’t meeting Giuliani. “How can I? I’m in London,” he said.

Giuliani has been accompanied in Kyiv by Andriy Telizhenko, a Ukrainian who worked at the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in 2016 and is the source of unsubstantiated allegations that his country interfered with the 2016 U.S. election.
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He challenged him to a push up? What is this, Seinfeld?

The front runner, Jesus H. Chris.

Joe Biden lashed out at an Iowa town hall Thursday after a man suggested the former vice president helped his son get a sweetheart deal in Ukraine and was “selling access” like President Donald Trump does.

The fiery exchange with the man, who only identified himself as a non-Republican Iowa farmer, ended with Biden challenging him to a contest of push-ups, running or an IQ test before he yelled at him.
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Maybe I’m deranged, but when Biden goes off the rails like that, it makes me kind of like him more. It beats stumbling over his own words.

But ugh. Wish I liked ANY of the Democratic candidates (the ones that have a chance at least).
 
Yeah Biden really went off the rails with that guy. It also sounded like he called him fat, but Biden's spokesperson said he said facts not fat. He also called the voter a damn liar.

Don't mess with me-Nancy

I'm going to watch her town hall tonight on CNN, should be popcorn worthy
 
Another thing to keep in mind. Parents get very aggressive when it comes to their kids. I know that personally. I’m a nice guy but mess with my kids and I lose my cool real fast.
 
Irvine511 said:
And Biden has buried more children than anyone ever should.
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Yes that's for sure. I completely understand him from that point of view. That's when he's at his best, talking about grief and loss. That episode of the View, when he reached out to Meghan McCain, was real and a tear jerker.
 
Irvine511 said:
i think he has a certain % of the electorate that's Bernie or, well, bust. and as Warren has been attacked, Harris has dropped out, Biden is having his issues ... there's a scrambling/shaking up of support. whereas his folks are all in. maybe that will be enough? i really would like to see him debate Trump. imagine two old egomaniacal New York men yelling at each other on a downtown bus.

the blowback on Sanders as the nominee would be terrifying, as will be the piles of oppo research they've already assembled, but here's one conservative who would prefer a Sanders presidency, over the others:
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You have said this many times as if it's common knowledge. What oppo research are they saving up? Sanders has been attacked by everyone to his right for the better part of four years. What are they holding back to spring on him now?

Also, that Douthat column is a cynical ploy to give upper middle class NYT readers ammo that Sanders is weak on social issues.
 
Jerry Dunk said:
You have said this many times as if it's common knowledge. What oppo research are they saving up? Sanders has been attacked by everyone to his right for the better part of four years. What are they holding back to spring on him now?
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generally, Sanders has had a generally easy political life. he been elected forever in a tiny, white state, only facing real opposition when he switches parties to run as a Democrat, like he did in 2016 and 2020. since his core supporters are loyal/fanatical, no one wants to risk alienating them, his opponents go very gentle on him.

but the oppo is there, and has been:

So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers.

Here are a few tastes of what was in store for Sanders, straight out of the Republican playbook: He thinks rape is A-OK. In 1972, when he was 31, Sanders wrote a fictitious essay in which he described a woman enjoying being raped by three men. Yes, there is an explanation for it—a long, complicated one, just like the one that would make clear why the Clinton emails story was nonsense. And we all know how well that worked out.

Then there's the fact that Sanders was on unemployment until his mid-30s, and that he stole electricity from a neighbor after failing to pay his bills, and that he co-sponsored a bill to ship Vermont's nuclear waste to a poor Hispanic community in Texas, where it could be dumped. You can just see the words "environmental racist" on Republican billboards. And if you can't, I already did. They were in the Republican opposition research book as a proposal on how to frame the nuclear waste issue.

Also on the list: Sanders violated campaign finance laws, criticized Clinton for supporting the 1994 crime bill that he voted for, and he voted against the Amber Alert system. His pitch for universal health care would have been used against him too, since it was tried in his home state of Vermont and collapsed due to excessive costs. Worst of all, the Republicans also had video of Sanders at a 1985 rally thrown by the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua where half a million people chanted, "Here, there, everywhere/the Yankee will die,'' while President Daniel Ortega condemned "state terrorism" by America. Sanders said, on camera, supporting the Sandinistas was "patriotic."

The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I don't know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.

https://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044
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this combined with the toxic word "socialist" ... big risks, and total field day for the COC conservatives who despise Trump, but also despise taxes.

I do think an advantage he has is one that Trump has -- his supporters believe Bernie before they believe anything or anyone else. Bernie is the prism through which information is understood, much like Trump is that prism for his base. this is clearly a powerful weapon in politics, as it won Trump the presidency in 2016. perhaps it is the best strategy to send up a left wing Trump and see if he can work the same magic but on the opposite side of the political spectrum.

i am all for whoever will best beat Trump. so if we see evidence that Sanders is the best candidate to win, that he can out Trump Trump, then i will support him.

all i care about is sending Trump to his political grave.



Also, that Douthat column is a cynical ploy to give upper middle class NYT readers ammo that Sanders is weak on social issues.
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"fake news," i guess.
 
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Jerry Dunk said:
Also, that Douthat column is a cynical ploy to give upper middle class NYT readers ammo that Sanders is weak on social issues.
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You may think so but anecdotally I think the point of the article is absolutely right on.

My husband meets, as part of his job, with multi-millionaire Americans on the daily and not a single one wants Sanders. Most of them were actually willing to vote for Elizabeth Warren (which I think you've pointed out, in a negative way before), but they will vote Trump over Bernie. And that makes absolute sense because this crowd does not give a tenth of a fuck about abortion, gays or anything other than their tax returns and earnings statements.
 
Irvine511 said:
on this subject, what are we to do with/make of a rip-roaring economy in a country with 3.5% unemployment?

might some say that the juice is worth the orange it's squeezed out of?
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Lots of people vote with their wallets, so that's what gives him a decent chance at re-election right now. If the economy falters noticeably in the next 10-11 months his only real hope fades, but if not, Dems better have the right candidate.
 
Irvine511 said:
on this subject, what are we to do with/make of a rip-roaring economy in a country with 3.5% unemployment?



might some say that the juice is worth the orange it's squeezed out of?
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This is what I think it means

1) that his numbers in swing States are currently so bad for him shows exactly how much of a clusterfuck he is, and the GOP would be smart to dump him out back like the sack of garbage he is. Alas, we know that's not happening... which leads us to two...

2) the economy flying and unemployment so low means that a candidate who's promising vast changes to the economy won't do well in the geenral - and that the vast electorate will ignore income inequality and wage stagnation and other more nuanced reasons of why our economy is not as good as it seems because we, as a nation, are dumb twits with the attention span of a golden retriever and need things presented to us in pithy, easy to digest marketing slogans.

I'll sit back and ignore the flaming about moderate Democrats and all that shit, ignoring that I didn't say they were wrong, only that we're a nation of morons - which makes right or wrong largely insignificant in national elections.
 
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