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Old 10-21-2019, 03:43 PM   #41
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https://twitter.com/johnastoehr/stat...864740869?s=21

Long thread but feel it’s a good one. Shows all the players involved, the media , candidates running, Trump, and voters haven’t learned a thing from 2016

But the media bears most of the blame. They are supposed to provide us with the proper facts of every story.
The 10th tweet, in which offense is taken to the idea that the US is "not a force for good," is embarrassing. So many liberals/centrists cannot reckon with the fact that, for many people and many countries on earth, the United States has been a force of evil for the better part of the last century.
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Old 10-21-2019, 04:05 PM   #42
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The US is neither a force for good nor evil. Nor is Russia nor China nor India not Europe. It’s all self-interest, and it’s easy to point the finger at the ones up top. The only evil that exists tends to be generated by these nations, though. Like North Korea - an abominable product of the US, Russia, and China.
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Old 10-21-2019, 04:16 PM   #43
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That's nice in theory, but humans abroad remember what flag was painted on the planes that dropped bombs on their communities.
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Old 10-21-2019, 04:34 PM   #44
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That's nice in theory, but humans abroad remember what flag was painted on the planes that dropped bombs on their communities.


Sure, and depending upon what community you’re talking about they’re either heroes or villains at any moment in time, because nothing is black and white. And the same goes for every other country.

Do you honestly think a war like Korea would’ve been fought if they weren’t welcome from one side? Consider how many non-Americans died on all sides.
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Old 10-21-2019, 05:32 PM   #45
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The US is neither a force for good nor evil. Nor is Russia nor China nor India not Europe. It’s all self-interest, and it’s easy to point the finger at the ones up top.

seriously.

as we've seen this past week or two, the only thing worse than a world with American leadership might be a world without it.
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Old 10-21-2019, 07:31 PM   #46
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i hope all my fellow canucks took the time to go out and vote today.
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Old 10-21-2019, 07:40 PM   #47
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seriously.



as we've seen this past week or two, the only thing worse than a world with American leadership might be a world without it.


Well, worse for some and better for others. I reject the notion that there’s a moral high ground from a nation. Each individual action by a power nation is either morally right or wrong. I would say in general they’re more likely to do the right thing if it’s in their interest, but competing for power also makes entities go full-mayor-pete and fill in the void to compete.
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Old 10-21-2019, 07:54 PM   #48
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Well, worse for some and better for others. I reject the notion that there’s a moral high ground from a nation. Each individual action by a power nation is either morally right or wrong. I would say in general they’re more likely to do the right thing if it’s in their interest, but competing for power also makes entities go full-mayor-pete and fill in the void to compete.


Generally, yes. I don’t think we can say that all countries are the same, or have the same values, or treat their people the same, but we can say they are morally neutral in that they all pursue their interests.
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Old 10-21-2019, 08:20 PM   #49
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Not sure if this has been posted. But if not, it's pretty damn funny.

https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/s...08390926917632
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Old 10-21-2019, 08:48 PM   #50
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what the actual fuck

https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/s...81973977227269
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Old 10-21-2019, 08:48 PM   #51
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i hope all my fellow canucks took the time to go out and vote today.
I voted first thing today!
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Old 10-21-2019, 09:25 PM   #52
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I voted first thing today!
me too, i was hung over from watching the football game last night and used voting as an excuse to come in to work an hour late
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Old 10-21-2019, 10:04 PM   #53
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me too, i was hung over from watching the football game last night and used voting as an excuse to come in to work an hour late
Haha that’s so awesome!! Yes we get 3 hours off of work to go vote but today is my Sunday so I couldn’t use any excuses lol
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:12 PM   #54
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Well, worse for some and better for others. I reject the notion that there’s a moral high ground from a nation. Each individual action by a power nation is either morally right or wrong. I would say in general they’re more likely to do the right thing if it’s in their interest, but competing for power also makes entities go full-mayor-pete and fill in the void to compete.
I think this ignores the sheer scale of death and destruction the United States brings with it when it decides it is owed oil, regime change, an election result, etc. There are a lot more consequences when we move on foreign policy. And saying "all countries act in their own self interest" is a bit of a cop out in my view, especially when you're talking from the point-of-view of one of the countries who has much of the power.
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I do not believe that Eichenwald has a particularly good grasp of what is going on there. A lot of what is happening right now with Turkey and Syria is posturing. There is nothing countries like to do more than use the Kurds as political bait, and that is what is happening here. I'll believe Trump and Erdogan actually want to throw down in a serious way when I see it. The former is too lazy, and the latter's army is way less impressive than he makes it out to be.
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:15 PM   #55
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even though the candidate i voted for didn't win, i'm pretty happy with how this election turned out. liberal minority governments when the NDP holds the balance of power have done some really good things here in the past.
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:25 PM   #56
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even though the candidate i voted for didn't win, i'm pretty happy with how this election turned out. liberal minority governments when the NDP holds the balance of power have done some really good things here in the past.
Yep. It almost looked like it was going to almost be a liberal majority for a few minutes. Two surprises where how much the BQ party over performed and how that NDP underperformed. I was expecting the NDP to win more seats. But I am happy that the PPC got 0 seats. Maxime really was donald trump lite from the few interviews I saw of him.

But yes the liberal and NDP is a very good result!
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:28 PM   #57
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Also interesting to see a Green Party seat out east! Was funny to see their reaction. I wouldn’t vote for them but good for them for winning something out east!
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:36 PM   #58
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max bernier literally admitted in the french debate that the PPC was an act of revenge against scheer and the conservative party for not electing him. his populist bullshit had absolutely no effect and as a personal embarrassment he lost badly to a dairy farmer bye dipshit

i voted NDP but if the greens took their place on a federal level i'd be happy with that too.
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:48 PM   #59
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US Politics XVII: Yes, squid pro row

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Dunk View Post
I think this ignores the sheer scale of death and destruction the United States brings with it when it decides it is owed oil, regime change, an election result, etc. There are a lot more consequences when we move on foreign policy. And saying "all countries act in their own self interest" is a bit of a cop out in my view, especially when you're talking from the point-of-view of one of the countries who has much of the power.

Everything I’ve ever said seems to be a copout to you lol. Not sure why that’s a copout.

Anyways. I think it’s really easy to see the atrocities when you live in our society and get our news and reflect upon ourselves. Do you think China has no blood on their hands? Russia? Hundreds of thousands if not millions have been killed at the hands of the Russians in many of the same places that hundreds of thousands if not millions have been killed at the hands of the Americans since the Russian federation was born. Tajikistan? Same rate of death as America in Afghanistan. Chechen wars? Similar to Iraq. But it’s happened twice. So. Other one that comes to mind is india in Kashmir. China more recently has been pacifist.

Nobody talks about Chechnya because it’s not our problem. You’re sounding like the US is the only savage superpower and like it’s abnormal, as though their savagery is somehow morally driven through evil and not more literally self-interest. Proof is in the pudding - other countries do the same thing when their power and influence in their sphere is challenged. Afghanistan is and has been hotly contentious for a solid three decades for a reason.

Really, I’m not defending anyone or giving anyone a pass. I just don’t think there’s a good or an evil here.
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Old 10-22-2019, 12:11 AM   #60
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even though the candidate i voted for didn't win, i'm pretty happy with how this election turned out. liberal minority governments when the NDP holds the balance of power have done some really good things here in the past.
Ooh, an election that turned out positively? That's a very welcome change!

Glad you guys seem pretty happy with the results .
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