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Old 11-14-2019, 10:40 AM   #561
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I know as good liberals we should gladly pay taxes — after all, we are immoral people if we don’t pay as much as possible — but I’ve just recently gone through what seem like shockingly high taxes with payroll trying to find out what’s happening, and when you work in different cities and in one city you pay a state tax and a specific city tax that’s, like, almost as much as the already high state tax, on top of everything else and you’re losing like 45% of your income and yet we have none of the European-style health care and public transportation and you just know you’ve paid more income tax than Donald Trump over the past 10 years, one can see where the frustration of the upper-income-but-not-landed-gentry frustrations come from.

I’m not actually complaining. I generally am a very appreciative person, and grateful. But it gets demoralizing when you work your pants off 60 hours a week or more in extremely expensive cities and half of it vanishes, and you know people (much, much) wealthier than you know how to avoid taxes and it at least feels like you see none of the benefits, either for yourself or those you know are in need ... it’s just demoralizing.
I hear you.
There's no perfect solution, but we certainly aren't getting reasonable return for the taxes we pay nowadays, and seeing the uberwealthy (or fake uberwealthy like Orange Donnie) skirt paying just adds to the frustration level.
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:56 AM   #562
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I know as good liberals we should gladly pay taxes — after all, we are immoral people if we don’t pay as much as possible — but I’ve just recently gone through what seem like shockingly high taxes with payroll trying to find out what’s happening, and when you work in different cities and in one city you pay a state tax and a specific city tax that’s, like, almost as much as the already high state tax, on top of everything else and you’re losing like 45% of your income and yet we have none of the European-style health care and public transportation and you just know you’ve paid more income tax than Donald Trump over the past 10 years, one can see where the frustration of the upper-income-but-not-landed-gentry frustrations come from.

I’m not actually complaining. I generally am a very appreciative person, and grateful. But it gets demoralizing when you work your pants off 60 hours a week or more in extremely expensive cities and half of it vanishes, and you know people (much, much) wealthier than you know how to avoid taxes and it at least feels like you see none of the benefits, either for yourself or those you know are in need ... it’s just demoralizing.
What this guy said.
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:57 AM   #563
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Newsflash, every single Democrat running for President will raise taxes, whether they say they will or not. And the only spending they will cut is defense. Rinse, repeat.



And most Republicans in Congress are too gutless to cut spending either. Our nation is over 20 trillion dollars in debt, that's kind of a problem.
Not what this guy said.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:50 AM   #564
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I think we can all agree that boomers are selfish AF and vote themselves both tax cuts and entitlements while raping the environment and voting for Donald Trump because they believe everything they read on the internets.
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:26 PM   #565
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Not what this guy said.
Tell me where I'm wrong
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:32 PM   #566
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I think we can all agree that boomers are selfish AF and vote themselves both tax cuts and entitlements while raping the environment and voting for Donald Trump because they believe everything they read on the internets.
The main problem is, the Federal Government is a bloated mess. If you read the Constitution, there are a handful of things the Federal Government should take care of. The rest belongs to the state's and local governments. They have WAY overstepped and that's why so many automatically think "the government " should fix everything. Taxes by and large are a joke. The federal government and as we see, many state governments (including Illinois and Cali) have completely mishandled their citizens money. Partly why I'm an independent conservative. Most of the Republicans in Congress say they are fiscally conservative, but their actions speak otherwise
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:33 PM   #567
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Originally Posted by Gzusfrk View Post
Newsflash, every single Democrat running for President will raise taxes, whether they say they will or not. And the only spending they will cut is defense. Rinse, repeat.

And most Republicans in Congress are too gutless to cut spending either. Our nation is over 20 trillion dollars in debt, that's kind of a problem.
Well this is leaving out any context.

Will taxes be raised under Dems? Yep. But it will be taxes on millionaires on up, and changes in inheritence, capital gains, corporate, transaction fees, etc...
Overall taxes decreased under Obama for the middle class, and up some for the higher end.
Trump as we all know made huge cuts for the wealthy and the cut for the middle ranged from very small to some being raised. This has resulted in the fastest growing debt ever, and an almost 70% increase of our annual deficit, which Obama had decreased by about 65% from where it was under Bush.

And defense spending is obscenely bloated and like the stock market, it has its ups and downs under every president, of both parties. But its overall trajectory is going higher and higher. This fluctuates as certain world events take place that require more troops and resources, or less.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:37 PM   #568
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Tell me where I'm wrong
It's not that you're wrong (on this one at least), rather that you're being overly simplistic in your description - which makes what you said (purposefully) misleading. Which is kind of a thing that republic... I'm sorry... "Independent conservatives" do these days; half truths and fear mongering.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:50 PM   #569
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The main problem is, the Federal Government is a bloated mess. If you read the Constitution, there are a handful of things the Federal Government should take care of. The rest belongs to the state's and local governments. They have WAY overstepped and that's why so many automatically think "the government " should fix everything. Taxes by and large are a joke. The federal government and as we see, many state governments (including Illinois and Cali) have completely mishandled their citizens money. Partly why I'm an independent conservative. Most of the Republicans in Congress say they are fiscally conservative, but their actions speak otherwise
I agree here with the statement of mishandling tax dollars, and definitely with what Irvine said earlier. Taxes just go up, as do cost of living items, as do utilities, and services, child care, college, elder care, the list goes on and it is no wonder that Americans that maybe get a 2 or 3% raise each year if they are lucky, slip farther and farther behind.
It's why more people have 2 jobs or more now than ever.

The problem with everything being left to the states is that currently the states that have lower state taxes are by and large the ones that receive the most Federal assistance. So it just seems to all come out in the wash anyway.
Can you imagine if your Social Security or Medicare or hell even the safety measures for your food, water, vehicles, etc... all varied by state? (which, yes, i know they do somewhat, but I'm talking about base Federal standards)
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:01 PM   #570
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I agree here with the statement of mishandling tax dollars, and definitely with what Irvine said earlier. Taxes just go up, as do cost of living items, as do utilities, and services, child care, college, elder care, the list goes on and it is no wonder that Americans that maybe get a 2 or 3% raise each year if they are lucky, slip farther and farther behind.

It's why more people have 2 jobs or more now than ever.



The problem with everything being left to the states is that currently the states that have lower state taxes are by and large the ones that receive the most Federal assistance. So it just seems to all come out in the wash anyway.

Can you imagine if your Social Security or Medicare or hell even the safety measures for your food, water, vehicles, etc... all varied by state? (which, yes, i know they do somewhat, but I'm talking about base Federal standards)


We all know where “State’s Rights” leads us.
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:10 PM   #571
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just to lighten the mood... or possibly darken it??

https://twitter.com/JustinAHorwitz/s...34358723338240
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:17 PM   #572
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interesting, anyone else hearing more about this?

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1195028806827958274

This is one of the most intriguing things that might come from these public hearing. There may be more and more information and witnesses that come forward once they hear about certain things said in the testimony.

These that are tying Trump even more directly to being the one giving the orders are pretty devastating. Or at least would be if Republicans were actually people that upheld their Constitutional duty.

And oh GOD you have to love Pelosi sometimes. This statement during a press conference was just so back-handedly perfect.

“And if the president has something that is exculpatory — Mr. President, that means if you have anything that shows your innocence — then he should make that known,” she said. “And that’s part of the inquiry. So far we haven’t seen that.”
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:19 PM   #573
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interesting, anyone else hearing more about this?

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1195028806827958274

This is one of the most intriguing things that might come from these public hearing. There may be more and more information and witnesses that come forward once they hear about certain things said in the testimony.

These that are tying Trump even more directly to being the one giving the orders are pretty devastating. Or at least would be if Republicans were actually people that upheld their Constitutional duty.


This is the exact reason why I don’t want the Democrats to rush this. More and more goodies just keep coming out.
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:25 PM   #574
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This is actually very significant:

"Priorities USA surveyed 2,500 voters in Florida, Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania — four states that went for Trump in 2016 — and found that 49 percent support impeachment and removal, compared to 45 percent who oppose it. " Florida at 51% vs 45% (his new home!)
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:30 PM   #575
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It's very concerning to me how many people are perfectly fine with a right wing military coup in Bolivia, or at least complacent enough to go "Well, that sure seems complicated!"
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:36 PM   #576
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I do believe Warren would need to moderate her message quite a bit in order to win it all. That's a normal thing as they transition from the primaries to the general, but Warren hasn't really showed any signs of it yet. The president isn't going to change, he's going to keep saying Trump stuff.
She's been moderating her message for a while now. The differences between her and someone like Sanders who intends to remain consistent in their rhetoric have never been more stark. She basically gave a non-answer at the National Press Club when asked about cutting military budgets to fund domestic programs and combating climate change. She has said she won't abolish ICE. It couldn't be more of an effort to moderate her message if she tried. She's been doing it since the centrists in the field like Biden, Harris, and Buttigieg have stagnated or fallen away.

Democrats always moderate their message, and it's always what leads to half-measures, failures, and electing more Republicans.
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Old 11-14-2019, 03:05 PM   #577
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She's been doing it since the centrists in the field like Biden, Harris, and Buttigieg have stagnated or fallen away.
Except that's not really true with the latest Buttigieg polls...
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Old 11-14-2019, 03:16 PM   #578
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Except that's not really true with the latest Buttigieg polls...
Yeah, Biden, for all the talk of his demise, is still leading nationally, back up to top spot in NH, and back up into second in Iowa. Pete, who is now number 1 in Iowa, unfortunately may have peaked to soon, and beyond that will get slapped into reality from SC forward.
Harris by all measures is out of this game.
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Old 11-14-2019, 03:18 PM   #579
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It's very concerning to me how many people are perfectly fine with a right wing military coup in Bolivia, or at least complacent enough to go "Well, that sure seems complicated!"
yep, don't let anyone try to deny that this is a military coup. there were popular protests about the elections, yes, but morales agreed to have the OAS audit the results and when the international auditors decided the election results couldn't be verified, morales agreed to hold new elections. this met all the main demands of the protestors. what happened after that was the far-right and military seeing an opening and suddenly putting forth the notion that new elections weren't good enough and morales' resignation was the only option.

the fact that the lady who assumed the presidency is the leader of the main far-right party and not morales' opponent in the election, and that aside from her own party the senate chamber was nearly empty when she took the oath of office should show that this is not the result of the popular will.
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Old 11-14-2019, 03:42 PM   #580
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We all know where “State’s Rights” leads us.
Only using and demanding that we follow the Constitution when it suits you is very liberal of you
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