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Old 11-12-2019, 11:53 AM   #521
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this is today's GOP.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...-leaked-emails

own it, douchebags.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:10 PM   #522
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There aren't enough for this.

Yes, Elizabeth Warren must moderate "quite a bit" in order to win it all, but Donald Trump can be a lying, criminal, sexist, racist swine with an extreme message of "fine people" among Nazis and he can not only win that way, but nobody should even expect him to be anything else.

If this is your stance, then yes, fuck kumbaya and anything even closely resembling it. Burn it all down.
You have to put this in context. We have one of the worst humans to live, as our president. He has created a cult that would cut off their arms if he asked them to. These aren't normal times. And his removal from office is priority number 1.

What you do have is a very large pool of voters, many on the older side, many in the middle, leaning just a bit one way or the other, that isn't part of the cult. Many that may have voted for Trump with the - lets see how putting a non-politician in the WH, and shake things up view - have seen it as an abject failure.
They are also less comfortable with big sweeping change than say the youth vote that, lets me honest, does not yet have the same life responsibilities that 35 year old plus voters have.

This is also greatly born out in racial lines. African American voters are by and large more cautious, because hell, their life already has enough built in hardship, unfairness and volatility than progressive white kids who really like to tout how "woke" they are, but are still blindingly clueless on how their life experience is different from those of other races in this country.
This is why you see Biden winning the very large majority of support of black voters. A known quantity that projects stability and normalcy. And this is also seeming to be the secret sauce for the Suburban Slide.

So all I'm trying to say is, Warren doesn't have to throw away her M4A plans. But to be able to WIN an election with this coveted pool of voters, She needs to present a well laid out transition plan, that might start with revamp of ACA with public option or optional Medicare choice. And then explain about having a steady move to a full single payer program.
This isn't giving anything up, its simply bringing people along who, unlike many here, don't scrutinize every political detail, but just want a steady, well thought out secure nominee with plans they can feel good about.

Win the presidency, Win the Senate, keep the house and THEN go for big changes. This is the way to move forward with a mandate from a wide range of voters.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:32 PM   #523
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It would appear that either Rick Gates or Donald Trump has committed perjury.

Vegas has declined to post odds on who they're guessing is the guilty party.
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:15 PM   #524
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Win the presidency, Win the Senate, keep the house and THEN go for big changes. This is the way to move forward with a mandate from a wide range of voters.
That is not my point though, at all.

It's that as Vlad noted, the left is constantly told they need to moderate while the right has dogmatic extremists whose behaviour is apparently totally ok and fine to win elections.
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Old 11-12-2019, 02:17 PM   #525
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This is also greatly born out in racial lines. African American voters are by and large more cautious, because hell, their life already has enough built in hardship, unfairness and volatility than progressive white kids who really like to tout how "woke" they are, but are still blindingly clueless on how their life experience is different from those of other races in this country.
This is why you see Biden winning the very large majority of support of black voters. A known quantity that projects stability and normalcy. And this is also seeming to be the secret sauce for the Suburban Slide.
yikes, dude.
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:14 PM   #526
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That is not my point though, at all.

It's that as Vlad noted, the left is constantly told they need to moderate while the right has dogmatic extremists whose behaviour is apparently totally ok and fine to win elections.
Well yeah that's the scary part. I think it tells us more about the electorate than anything. It's absolutely scary that when you look around, 4 in 10 people believe the lies that come from Trumps mouth and think he's great. That's troubling in a massive way.

I think unfortunately it also shows that hope, positivity and change that we would say is for the better, is still hard to win people over emotionally above fear and hate.
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Old 11-12-2019, 04:11 PM   #527
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Mayor Pete is leading in Iowa according to a new Monmouth Poll.

Joe Biden's been sniping at Elizabeth Warren and totally missed Pete overtaking him for the centrist vote. Should make for an interesting debate next week.
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Old 11-12-2019, 05:55 PM   #528
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What you do have is a very large pool of voters, many on the older side, many in the middle, leaning just a bit one way or the other, that isn't part of the cult. Many that may have voted for Trump with the - lets see how putting a non-politician in the WH, and shake things up view - have seen it as an abject failure.
They are also less comfortable with big sweeping change than say the youth vote that, lets me honest, does not yet have the same life responsibilities that 35 year old plus voters have.
Apart from how the economy is fairing 11 months from now, I think it matters a ton who the Obamas enthusiastically come out for. And how early they do it. Voters of all ages would listen.

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This is also greatly born out in racial lines. African American voters are by and large more cautious, because hell, their life already has enough built in hardship, unfairness and volatility than progressive white kids who really like to tout how "woke" they are, but are still blindingly clueless on how their life experience is different from those of other races in this country.
It's ironic that maybe the best natural talent in the field now....young, well-spoken, a veteran, business-savvy (even possibly leading in Iowa)

....seems to have zero chance with black voters. Big bloc of votes there.
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:37 PM   #529
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Let us not gloss over the confirmation of something we've already known, that the person setting immigration policy in the White House is unbelievably racist

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/m...-2016-election
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:44 PM   #530
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can we please stop talking about Black people as if they're all just one big lump that all thinks and votes as a block against their own self-interest. some of this is getting uncomfortably close to gzusfrk's blatantly racist "democrat plantation" horseshit.
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:01 PM   #531
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can we please stop talking about Black people as if they're all just one big lump that all thinks and votes as a block against their own self-interest. some of this is getting uncomfortably close to gzusfrk's blatantly racist "democrat plantation" horseshit.
And these comments don't reflect the fairly varied responses among different age groups of black voters. We don't do this to any other group...
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:54 PM   #532
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And these comments don't reflect the fairly varied responses among different age groups of black voters. We don't do this to any other group...
Yes, I should have given that caveat. And of course there is a huge variety of political, social, religious, views etc... across any race, age and gender.
But I was definitely taken by a talk that Trevor Noah had about this. He referenced Trumps "what do you have to lose" comment, and he said, for black voters, even more specifically black women voters - they have more to lose than pretty much any other voters in the electorate. And he made the point that having a candidate that they have some history or comfort with was important.
This may be why Trump got 8% of the African American vote in 2016.

As a middle aged white guy, its easier for me to say, eh, I'm sure everything will be alright for me, even if I take a chance on this candidate, or if I don't actually vote this time around. Even easier for younger white more affluent voter.
The voting rate for African American women over 50 is something like 95%, That's not by chance. It's because they have fought long and hard to get past terrible inequities in this country - to a place that is still not equal to white voters.
And more is at stake for them, and their family's everyday lives, then it is for many others.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:58 PM   #533
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Let us not gloss over the confirmation of something we've already known, that the person setting immigration policy in the White House is unbelievably racist

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/m...-2016-election
It is insane to think that this sort of poison is what is leading our immigration policy. At an even more bizarre and sick level than I had even imagined.
What is even more sad, is that this administration, is SO completely fucking corrupt in every way, that a story like this doesn't even make the news. Too busy with 10 other stories just today that show how Trump is shitting on every inch of government .
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:42 PM   #534
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Yes, I should have given that caveat. And of course there is a huge variety of political, social, religious, views etc... across any race, age and gender.
But I was definitely taken by a talk that Trevor Noah had about this. He referenced Trumps "what do you have to lose" comment, and he said, for black voters, even more specifically black women voters - they have more to lose than pretty much any other voters in the electorate. And he made the point that having a candidate that they have some history or comfort with was important.
This may be why Trump got 8% of the African American vote in 2016.

As a middle aged white guy, its easier for me to say, eh, I'm sure everything will be alright for me, even if I take a chance on this candidate, or if I don't actually vote this time around. Even easier for younger white more affluent voter.
The voting rate for African American women over 50 is something like 95%, That's not by chance. It's because they have fought long and hard to get past terrible inequities in this country - to a place that is still not equal to white voters.
And more is at stake for them, and their family's everyday lives, then it is for many others.
thanks for making a thoughtful and well-reasoned follow up, where some might have just gotten defensive
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Old 11-13-2019, 07:36 AM   #535
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can we please stop talking about Black people as if they're all just one big lump that all thinks and votes as a block against their own self-interest. some of this is getting uncomfortably close to gzusfrk's blatantly racist "democrat plantation" horseshit.
As I’ve said about fifteen times on here, the term “democrat plantation” is not mine, but is used by Candace Owens, and many other black conservatives to describe the system of victimhood, entitlement, and made up oppression that the Democratic Party has peddled to the black community for 50 years, since Lyndon Johnson, and continues to. A system of policies that has kept many in the black community dependent on the government, and stuck in poverty for generations. Candace Owens is a strong, intelligent black conservative woman.

Man, I haven’t seen Democrats hate a black woman this much since Rosa Parks. “Get back in line, you need us, how dare you try to be free of government help!”🙄
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Old 11-13-2019, 07:39 AM   #536
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What the fuck
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:12 AM   #537
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As I’ve said about fifteen times on here, the term “democrat plantation” is not mine, but is used by Candace Owens, and many other black conservatives to describe the system of victimhood, entitlement, and made up oppression that the Democratic Party has peddled to the black community for 50 years, since Lyndon Johnson, and continues to. A system of policies that has kept many in the black community dependent on the government, and stuck in poverty for generations. Candace Owens is a strong, intelligent black conservative woman.

Man, I haven’t seen Democrats hate a black woman this much since Rosa Parks. “Get back in line, you need us, how dare you try to be free of government help!”
right on cue, it's our local racist. haha i knew that would bait you into coming out of the woodwork. how you haven't been banned yet for peddling this bigoted shit over and over again is beyond me.
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:15 AM   #538
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thanks for making a thoughtful and well-reasoned follow up, where some might have just gotten defensive
Thanks. Can't say I didn't get a little defensive at first, but I thought about your response and you were right that we don't want to start making big assumptions about a certain demographic of people. I try, as a not so young white guy, to put myself in others shoes, and realize i will never ever be able to really understand. But trying is all we can do.

looking forward to a big day today. I hope the Dems actually surprise us in a good way.
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:48 AM   #539
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Stephen Miller was basically hired for being a racist. I mean, these e-mails are neither a surprise to us nor are they problematic for the Trump Administration because those views are basically a feature and not something to be embarrassed about.

The GOP talking heads on TV this morning have totally pivoted to "it's quid pro quo but who cares, that's what negotiation means and we do it all the time". I don't understand why nobody in the media is willing to cut off somebody like Rick Santorum and play a clip of what he was saying a week ago. No quid pro quo! Just stop taking their eternal bullshit.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:13 AM   #540
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Stephen Miller was basically hired for being a racist. I mean, these e-mails are neither a surprise to us nor are they problematic for the Trump Administration because those views are basically a feature and not something to be embarrassed about.

The GOP talking heads on TV this morning have totally pivoted to "it's quid pro quo but who cares, that's what negotiation means and we do it all the time". I don't understand why nobody in the media is willing to cut off somebody like Rick Santorum and play a clip of what he was saying a week ago. No quid pro quo! Just stop taking their eternal bullshit.


I think the Democrats sounds simply respond with “ok let’s play by your rules then. We’ll ask Russia for dirt on Trump.”
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