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Old 10-29-2019, 08:47 PM   #281
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wNow i have the time to give you a more thoughtful response.

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Originally Posted by Jerry Dunk View Post
Are you kidding me? Is this whole forum just interested in casting the worst aspersions of anyone who dares criticize their precious fucking Democrats?
I've lobbed plenty of criticism at my Democrats for decades.
And unlike my younger self of ? 30+ or so years ago - I see good potential in DS; at least certainly in the Nordic systems. I'd have to review what DS has existed in the rest of Europe.

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Originally Posted by Jerry Dunk View Post
I am supporting Sanders because I think a movement led by him is the only way forward to actually fight food insecurity, homeless, illness, and death. I think everyone else's half measure nonsense will fall short and cost the 2020 or 2024 elections, as well as many, many downballot races.
You think no one else is capable of doing this (growing a movement) in the Democratic party (besides running for President), what about "the squad" as they continue to grow and develop as politicians (in the best sense). I'm pretty sure there'll be others like them.

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Originally Posted by Jerry Dunk View Post
I am voting for Sanders and vocally supporting for the exact reasons you think I am a traitor for doing so. Because I think it's how you help people.

I am getting really sick of your accusatory shit. You read what you want to read and attack me as a person as being selfish. My entire motivation here is to help as many people as possible. If you want to question my logic, fine. But fuck you if you think this is all some vanity thing and that my ego can't handle someone else winning.
No, JD, I'm not casting any aspersions on you re: ego and vanity - not at all. It never even crossed my mind! I

My mistake in posting the way I did - most importantly is 1)
forgetting that you said you'd vote for whom ever became the Democratic nominee this time at least; 2) that (i don't know, and it may have been way many threads back) I do get very reactive when someone will (or seems to [as I mistook above]) vote third party , or not at all - because I've had dealings with people like that through decades- even when there were at least some serious differences between candidates of the GOP and the Dems!

Let's start with a man i admired for decades: Ralph Nader. Someone i supported some of his organizations work back in the '70's in both attending their protests , and later monetarily.

But his role in the 2000 election eventually turned me away. To say there was no difference between Gore and Bush was ridiculous! And at some point in there (he's changed i think i read) his blatant disregard for the LGBT community community back them calling their issues just "gonad politics" .

More often though it was with progressives who wouldn't vote for the Democratic Presidential candidate, and that stubbornness was a factor (i said "a", not the ) in them losing several elections. This was before the WWW was really humming along into the general populous's consciousness and more habitual usage was happening; where safe vote trading between different States was possible, and before the Internet period. I had had two really vocal public arguments in two different Presidential elections.

So i guess i do apologize. I'm not sure Bernie can win but I'll be doing all manner of volunteering if he (or whom ever else) is the nominee. i've done official various kinds of volunteering with campaigns, and on my own (professional commercial artist in the past) designing and drawing my own posters that i put up on lampposts etc . And he better pick a younger VP, unless maybe Warren. Why am i concerned? He's popular amongst younger African-Americans, many older Afrcan-Americans favor Biden. Biden has done some very long time work with the Gold Star Families, which includes a lot of African-Americans. He's Jewish, and with not just "more typical" Anti-m ie: spray painting hideous symbols and names, vandalism - but now outright violence and murder- that concerns me in various ways.

We both want better lives for people in all the various ways different people are marginalized, and declared "lesser than" and thus are treated with offensivess, cruelty, to practically a slow death or even outright murder.

I'm tired. Think i covered everything.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:50 PM   #282
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Oooops - that was supposed to be Anti-Semitism.

Oh, besides 'different' people, anyone below the rich since many of them think the lesser of the middle class, and lower.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:17 PM   #283
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Remember when people didn’t think Nancy Pelosi should be speaker?
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:23 PM   #284
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She shouldn’t be.
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Old 10-30-2019, 12:41 AM   #285
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I think she's doing pretty well right now.
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Old 10-30-2019, 12:43 AM   #286
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Her skills are exactly what is needed right now.
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Old 10-30-2019, 02:31 AM   #287
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Disagree. Case for impeachment would never had been this strong with Mueller report. At the time, Pelosi said - "he's self-impeachable" And it was true. The day after Mueller testified he made the Ukraine call.

And I don't think the Ukraine call would have been as big a deal if Mueller hadn't come before it. It just built up public sentiment that everything he does is sleazy.



The witnesses being called have been stellar.

While people yell and scream that she should have had the people that didn't show up to testify thrown in jail!! She sat back and, got a huge win in court and had a string of the best witnesses anyone could hope for file in and give damning testimony.



When the GOP knob parade came into the SCIF, they yelled - they should be arrested!! She sat back, saw it for the foolish overplay that it was and it only helped to show that their inane narrative is complete BS.



Not sure how that is butchering every fucking step?
She has managed the Ukraine situation beautifully. I don't disagree there.

What I'm saying is that the Democrats, led by Nancy Pelosi, didn't create this. They are the beneficiaries of an utterly incompetent criminal enterprise currently residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW.

There is more than enough in the Mueller Report to impeach him. They failed big time by looking at it, shrugging their collective shoulders, and pissing it all away. The guy literally gave a roadmap to impeachment, and the entire democratic machinery fucked it all away.

So while, sure, this time it's been run well... I don't hand out attaboys to the Democrats simply because the absolute fucking morons running our country got away with a litany of high crimes and misdemeanors, and instead of being thankful for getting away with it, went out and did the fucking thing again.

That's not a masterful political stroke by Nancy Pelosi. That's a bumbling group of idiots being a bumbling group of idiots. There was no long game here. They simply got lucky that Trump's dumb.
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Old 10-30-2019, 09:43 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
She has managed the Ukraine situation beautifully. I don't disagree there.

What I'm saying is that the Democrats, led by Nancy Pelosi, didn't create this. They are the beneficiaries of an utterly incompetent criminal enterprise currently residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW.

There is more than enough in the Mueller Report to impeach him. They failed big time by looking at it, shrugging their collective shoulders, and pissing it all away. The guy literally gave a roadmap to impeachment, and the entire democratic machinery fucked it all away.

So while, sure, this time it's been run well... I don't hand out attaboys to the Democrats simply because the absolute fucking morons running our country got away with a litany of high crimes and misdemeanors, and instead of being thankful for getting away with it, went out and did the fucking thing again.

That's not a masterful political stroke by Nancy Pelosi. That's a bumbling group of idiots being a bumbling group of idiots. There was no long game here. They simply got lucky that Trump's dumb.
yes, sheer stupidity, coupled with incompetence and unbridled ego has been a gift to the Dems, who are unfortunately so successful in screwing things up.
I just think it would have been much less successful under a new, less seasoned House Leader.
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Old 10-30-2019, 09:48 AM   #289
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I feel someone like AOC would have impeached the fucker already

She may be green in policy but she’s excellent during the committees questioning and i feel like she wouldn’t tolerate the gop bullshit

They fuck with her and she’d throw them in jail or censure
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Old 10-30-2019, 10:03 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
I feel someone like AOC would have impeached the fucker already

She may be green in policy but she’s excellent during the committees questioning and i feel like she wouldn’t tolerate the gop bullshit

They fuck with her and she’d throw them in jail or censure
Yes, she would be great recruiter for GOP votes then.
Plus, after she had him impeached by the House the Senate would've been quick to acquit Trump. As the DOJ had already said, 'No collusion!'
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Old 10-30-2019, 10:10 AM   #291
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I feel someone like AOC would have impeached the fucker already

She may be green in policy but she’s excellent during the committees questioning and i feel like she wouldn’t tolerate the gop bullshit

They fuck with her and she’d throw them in jail or censure


I’m not sure why AOC is the only other name we can think of versus Pelosi.
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Old 10-30-2019, 10:10 AM   #292
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US Politics XVII: Yes, squid pro row

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
I feel someone like AOC would have impeached the fucker already

She may be green in policy but she’s excellent during the committees questioning and i feel like she wouldn’t tolerate the gop bullshit

They fuck with her and she’d throw them in jail or censure



That’s not how things work, and it’s this kind of mentality that gave us Trump.

It’s absolutely silly to ascribe magical powers to politicians we may agree with and think that, with just one more speech, one more debate, with a slightly more complicit media, everyone else will suddenly see what is plainly obvious to you, the True Believer.

That shit is cult. And it’s exactly what let’s you shoot a man on 5th Avenue, the BQE, or the Church Street Market, and have your supporters think you better for it.
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Old 10-30-2019, 10:16 AM   #293
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yes, sheer stupidity, coupled with incompetence and unbridled ego has been a gift to the Dems, who are unfortunately so successful in screwing things up.

I just think it would have been much less successful under a new, less seasoned House Leader.


Impeachment was already on the March. Mueller already gave the Democrats a totally of 10 different slam dunks of obstruction of justice.

Trump being a mobbed up idiot surrounded by trash yes men gave them something even more clear.

Impeachment will happen. Which is what everyone always wanted since Trump started working with the Kremlin and became their fiercest global advocate.

No one has ever seriously thought we’d get conviction and removal. But the more legitimate and airtight this process, the better it will be as GOP senators in states where Trump is unpopular are put in impossible positions, and the more GOP Senators who don’t just stand by Trump but call his phone call “perfect” (as he is demanding) the more the GOP as a whole is deiscredited nationally, despite how popular a certain Senator might be in the slave states.
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Old 10-30-2019, 11:02 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
That’s not how things work, and it’s this kind of mentality that gave us Trump.

It’s absolutely silly to ascribe magical powers to politicians we may agree with and think that, with just one more speech, one more debate, with a slightly more complicit media, everyone else will suddenly see what is plainly obvious to you, the True Believer.

That shit is cult. And it’s exactly what let’s you shoot a man on 5th Avenue, the BQE, or the Church Street Market, and have your supporters think you better for it.
All of this. Seriously, if AOC was the one to bring impeachment it would have been a disaster. I think people forget all of the political things that go on in the background that need to be balanced along the way. That only someone with a real depth of knowledge and experience and historical context can provide.
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Old 10-30-2019, 11:48 AM   #295
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Honestly, it feels like the Democrats would have a hard time no matter what they do. They get aggressive, people (speaking in general terms here) worry that'll alienate voters and give the GOP more fuel for their persecution complex, but if they're not aggressive enough, they're seen as weak and unable to stand up to these goons.

The fact is, though, that as of now the majority of the country supports impeaching Trump, and seeing him removed from office as well. So while I agree that the GOP is making the Democrats' job rather easy thus far, I also think the way the Democrats are doing it seems to be working on some level. I just want the Democrats to do everything necessary to make as airtight a case as possible, and have enough evidence on their plate to where the GOP would have no choice but to convict, lest they risk the wrath of the country at large.
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Old 10-30-2019, 11:48 AM   #296
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i realize this is sport, not politics and not life or death, but how do we deal with the nihilism of a government like this? one that seems hell bent on obliterating any notion of the existence of fact and truth, no matter the subject.



Quote:
Russian state hackers attacked the computer networks of at least 16 national and international sports and antidoping organizations, Microsoft said Monday. The attacks are the latest in a series of brazen Russian cyberattacks on foreign politicians, sporting officials and antidoping regulators.

The attacks were timed as the World Anti-Doping Agency deals with the continued fallout from the 2015 Russian doping scandal, which snowballed in recent months after WADA officials discovered that Russian athletes’ failed drug tests had been erased from a critical data set.

According to Microsoft, which helps protect some of the agencies from cyberattacks, the Russian attacks began Sept. 16, just days before WADA announced Russia might face further punishment for inconsistencies in its drug testing data. Microsoft did not name victims of the cyberattacks, but confirmed that some of the Russian attacks were successful.

The company traced the attacks to a group of notorious Russian state-backed hackers known by the alias Fancy Bear. The group is one of two Russian government groups responsible for the 2016 hack of the Democratic National Committee, as well as previous cyberattacks on sports and antidoping officials between 2014 and 2018. The attacks resulted in the 2018 indictment of seven Russian intelligence officers accused of hacking sports and antidoping officials, as well as spreading personal emails belonging to antidoping officials and the private medical records of Western athletes. The hacks occurred amid mounting criticism of Russia for its yearslong, state-sponsored doping program.

The latest Russian cyberattacks could factor into WADA’s decision whether or not to punish Russia for possibly manipulating data at the center of the 2015 doping scandal. Russia’s promise to turn over the data set was key to WADA’s decision to lift a ban on Russia’s antidoping agency in late 2018. That determination ended a three-year suspension of Russia’s antidoping agency that had been imposed after the discovery of one of the most brazen cheating schemes in history, one that corrupted a number of major international sporting events, including several Olympics. As a result of the scandal, Russian athletes were barred from competing under their country’s flag at the 2018 Winter Games in Pyeongchang, South Korea.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/28/s...da-hacked.html
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Old 10-30-2019, 11:50 AM   #297
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I agree and i was speaking mostly from emotion

But to think that this country and this government is gonna go back to some previous version of itself is crazy too.

These are not normal times. We have one party that is corrupt beyond all hope, and the founding fathers didn’t expect that to happen.

Our checks and balances are slowly eroding, and our national security has been compromised for decades.

Think of all the people who have had access to our secrets
Flynn
Ivanka
Jared

Just to name a few of the obvious ones, and they’re still out there selling them.

Do you think Trump and GOP will sit back and allow the Dems to impeach without fighting back ?

This is going to get worse before it maybe gets better. I hope something better can spring from this

Maybe, we’ll see
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Old 10-30-2019, 12:33 PM   #298
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ZqmVOi2sNeSlK8

Glad this isn’t going away
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Old 10-30-2019, 01:43 PM   #299
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Maybe stop reading the Daily Mail and it will.
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Old 10-30-2019, 01:47 PM   #300
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Maybe stop reading the Daily Mail and it will.
It’s a pretty major story today, but you may have to jump off of the Huffington Post, or waiting for Rachel Maddow to talk about it. I could give you multiple links of the same story , but I think you should step out and broaden your horizons.

Free your mind.
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