Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats as a whole have butchered every fucking step or this thing and are only in the situation they are in now because the dumbski was stupid enough to do it again.
US Politics XVII: Yes, squid pro row
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womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Disagree. Case for impeachment would never had been this strong with Mueller report. At the time, Pelosi said - "he's self-impeachable" And it was true. The day after Mueller testified he made the Ukraine call.
And I don't think the Ukraine call would have been as big a deal if Mueller hadn't come before it. It just built up public sentiment that everything he does is sleazy.
The witnesses being called have been stellar.
While people yell and scream that she should have had the people that didn't show up to testify thrown in jail!! She sat back and, got a huge win in court and had a string of the best witnesses anyone could hope for file in and give damning testimony.
When the GOP knob parade came into the SCIF, they yelled - they should be arrested!! She sat back, saw it for the foolish overplay that it was and it only helped to show that their inane narrative is complete BS.
Not sure how that is butchering every fucking step?
Yeah, her talent and policy making skills have no bounds. Maybe now she can figure out how to keep the lights on in her own state.
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LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
While Nancy deserves credit for properly politically maneuvering impeachment thus far, she definitely doesn’t deserve a great deal of credit otherwise. The Bush obstructionism attitude at her leadership led the full force tribalism we have today.
But I’m not sure what “the lights on in her own state” has anything to do with a senator or the federal government. Nor is California’s power cutting at the helm of the government. It’s precisely what happens when capitalism goes awry and wins out - a small few fat and bloated cats that, via capitalism, have destroyed competition and are incompetent at their own upkeep.
But I’m not sure what “the lights on in her own state” has anything to do with a senator or the federal government. Nor is California’s power cutting at the helm of the government. It’s precisely what happens when capitalism goes awry and wins out - a small few fat and bloated cats that, via capitalism, have destroyed competition and are incompetent at their own upkeep.
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
I am not going to defend her entire history. Hell, I was one of the ones that pissed because I was certain she was going to let the Ukraine call slide. But I do think that the tribalism should more firmly be planted at the feet of Gingrich and McConnell.
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
Well, i was very tired (at least for a good reason) when i posted that reaction to abovequote to you. I'm not sure i'd totally take that back - right now, but i will reread your response again. And post later this evening. My subway train is aboutvto arrive
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dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
wNow i have the time to give you a more thoughtful response.
And unlike my younger self of ? 30+ or so years ago - I see good potential in DS; at least certainly in the Nordic systems. I'd have to review what DS has existed in the rest of Europe.
No, JD, I'm not casting any aspersions on you re: ego and vanity - not at all. It never even crossed my mind! I
My mistake in posting the way I did - most importantly is 1)
forgetting that you said you'd vote for whom ever became the Democratic nominee this time at least; 2) that (i don't know, and it may have been way many threads back) I do get very reactive when someone will (or seems to [as I mistook above]) vote third party , or not at all - because I've had dealings with people like that through decades- even when there were at least some serious differences between candidates of the GOP and the Dems!
Let's start with a man i admired for decades: Ralph Nader. Someone i supported some of his organizations work back in the '70's in both attending their protests , and later monetarily.
But his role in the 2000 election eventually turned me away. To say there was no difference between Gore and Bush was ridiculous! And at some point in there (he's changed i think i read) his blatant disregard for the LGBT community community back them calling their issues just "gonad politics" .
More often though it was with progressives who wouldn't vote for the Democratic Presidential candidate, and that stubbornness was a factor (i said "a", not the ) in them losing several elections. This was before the WWW was really humming along into the general populous's consciousness and more habitual usage was happening; where safe vote trading between different States was possible, and before the Internet period. I had had two really vocal public arguments in two different Presidential elections.
So i guess i do apologize. I'm not sure Bernie can win but I'll be doing all manner of volunteering if he (or whom ever else) is the nominee. i've done official various kinds of volunteering with campaigns, and on my own (professional commercial artist in the past) designing and drawing my own posters that i put up on lampposts etc . And he better pick a younger VP, unless maybe Warren. Why am i concerned? He's popular amongst younger African-Americans, many older Afrcan-Americans favor Biden. Biden has done some very long time work with the Gold Star Families, which includes a lot of African-Americans. He's Jewish, and with not just "more typical" Anti-m ie: spray painting hideous symbols and names, vandalism - but now outright violence and murder- that concerns me in various ways.
We both want better lives for people in all the various ways different people are marginalized, and declared "lesser than" and thus are treated with offensivess, cruelty, to practically a slow death or even outright murder.
I'm tired. Think i covered everything.
I've lobbed plenty of criticism at my Democrats for decades.
And unlike my younger self of ? 30+ or so years ago - I see good potential in DS; at least certainly in the Nordic systems. I'd have to review what DS has existed in the rest of Europe.
You think no one else is capable of doing this (growing a movement) in the Democratic party (besides running for President), what about "the squad" as they continue to grow and develop as politicians (in the best sense). I'm pretty sure there'll be others like them.
No, JD, I'm not casting any aspersions on you re: ego and vanity - not at all. It never even crossed my mind! I
My mistake in posting the way I did - most importantly is 1)
forgetting that you said you'd vote for whom ever became the Democratic nominee this time at least; 2) that (i don't know, and it may have been way many threads back) I do get very reactive when someone will (or seems to [as I mistook above]) vote third party , or not at all - because I've had dealings with people like that through decades- even when there were at least some serious differences between candidates of the GOP and the Dems!
Let's start with a man i admired for decades: Ralph Nader. Someone i supported some of his organizations work back in the '70's in both attending their protests , and later monetarily.
But his role in the 2000 election eventually turned me away. To say there was no difference between Gore and Bush was ridiculous! And at some point in there (he's changed i think i read) his blatant disregard for the LGBT community community back them calling their issues just "gonad politics" .
More often though it was with progressives who wouldn't vote for the Democratic Presidential candidate, and that stubbornness was a factor (i said "a", not the ) in them losing several elections. This was before the WWW was really humming along into the general populous's consciousness and more habitual usage was happening; where safe vote trading between different States was possible, and before the Internet period. I had had two really vocal public arguments in two different Presidential elections.
So i guess i do apologize. I'm not sure Bernie can win but I'll be doing all manner of volunteering if he (or whom ever else) is the nominee. i've done official various kinds of volunteering with campaigns, and on my own (professional commercial artist in the past) designing and drawing my own posters that i put up on lampposts etc . And he better pick a younger VP, unless maybe Warren. Why am i concerned? He's popular amongst younger African-Americans, many older Afrcan-Americans favor Biden. Biden has done some very long time work with the Gold Star Families, which includes a lot of African-Americans. He's Jewish, and with not just "more typical" Anti-m ie: spray painting hideous symbols and names, vandalism - but now outright violence and murder- that concerns me in various ways.
We both want better lives for people in all the various ways different people are marginalized, and declared "lesser than" and thus are treated with offensivess, cruelty, to practically a slow death or even outright murder.
I'm tired. Think i covered everything.
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dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
Oooops - that was supposed to be Anti-Semitism.
Oh, besides 'different' people, anyone below the rich since many of them think the lesser of the middle class, and lower.
Oh, besides 'different' people, anyone below the rich since many of them think the lesser of the middle class, and lower.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
Remember when people didn’t think Nancy Pelosi should be speaker?
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LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
She shouldn’t be.
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
I think she's doing pretty well right now.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
Her skills are exactly what is needed right now.
She has managed the Ukraine situation beautifully. I don't disagree there.
What I'm saying is that the Democrats, led by Nancy Pelosi, didn't create this. They are the beneficiaries of an utterly incompetent criminal enterprise currently residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW.
There is more than enough in the Mueller Report to impeach him. They failed big time by looking at it, shrugging their collective shoulders, and pissing it all away. The guy literally gave a roadmap to impeachment, and the entire democratic machinery fucked it all away.
So while, sure, this time it's been run well... I don't hand out attaboys to the Democrats simply because the absolute fucking morons running our country got away with a litany of high crimes and misdemeanors, and instead of being thankful for getting away with it, went out and did the fucking thing again.
That's not a masterful political stroke by Nancy Pelosi. That's a bumbling group of idiots being a bumbling group of idiots. There was no long game here. They simply got lucky that Trump's dumb.
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
yes, sheer stupidity, coupled with incompetence and unbridled ego has been a gift to the Dems, who are unfortunately so successful in screwing things up.
I just think it would have been much less successful under a new, less seasoned House Leader.
I feel someone like AOC would have impeached the fucker already
She may be green in policy but she’s excellent during the committees questioning and i feel like she wouldn’t tolerate the gop bullshit
They fuck with her and she’d throw them in jail or censure
She may be green in policy but she’s excellent during the committees questioning and i feel like she wouldn’t tolerate the gop bullshit
They fuck with her and she’d throw them in jail or censure
Popmartijn
Blue Crack Supplier
Yes, she would be great recruiter for GOP votes then.
Plus, after she had him impeached by the House the Senate would've been quick to acquit Trump. As the DOJ had already said, 'No collusion!'
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LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
That’s not how things work, and it’s this kind of mentality that gave us Trump.
It’s absolutely silly to ascribe magical powers to politicians we may agree with and think that, with just one more speech, one more debate, with a slightly more complicit media, everyone else will suddenly see what is plainly obvious to you, the True Believer.
That shit is cult. And it’s exactly what let’s you shoot a man on 5th Avenue, the BQE, or the Church Street Market, and have your supporters think you better for it.
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Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
Impeachment was already on the March. Mueller already gave the Democrats a totally of 10 different slam dunks of obstruction of justice.
Trump being a mobbed up idiot surrounded by trash yes men gave them something even more clear.
Impeachment will happen. Which is what everyone always wanted since Trump started working with the Kremlin and became their fiercest global advocate.
No one has ever seriously thought we’d get conviction and removal. But the more legitimate and airtight this process, the better it will be as GOP senators in states where Trump is unpopular are put in impossible positions, and the more GOP Senators who don’t just stand by Trump but call his phone call “perfect” (as he is demanding) the more the GOP as a whole is deiscredited nationally, despite how popular a certain Senator might be in the slave states.
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
All of this. Seriously, if AOC was the one to bring impeachment it would have been a disaster. I think people forget all of the political things that go on in the background that need to be balanced along the way. That only someone with a real depth of knowledge and experience and historical context can provide.
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
Honestly, it feels like the Democrats would have a hard time no matter what they do. They get aggressive, people (speaking in general terms here) worry that'll alienate voters and give the GOP more fuel for their persecution complex, but if they're not aggressive enough, they're seen as weak and unable to stand up to these goons.
The fact is, though, that as of now the majority of the country supports impeaching Trump, and seeing him removed from office as well. So while I agree that the GOP is making the Democrats' job rather easy thus far, I also think the way the Democrats are doing it seems to be working on some level. I just want the Democrats to do everything necessary to make as airtight a case as possible, and have enough evidence on their plate to where the GOP would have no choice but to convict, lest they risk the wrath of the country at large.
The fact is, though, that as of now the majority of the country supports impeaching Trump, and seeing him removed from office as well. So while I agree that the GOP is making the Democrats' job rather easy thus far, I also think the way the Democrats are doing it seems to be working on some level. I just want the Democrats to do everything necessary to make as airtight a case as possible, and have enough evidence on their plate to where the GOP would have no choice but to convict, lest they risk the wrath of the country at large.
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Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
i realize this is sport, not politics and not life or death, but how do we deal with the nihilism of a government like this? one that seems hell bent on obliterating any notion of the existence of fact and truth, no matter the subject.
I agree and i was speaking mostly from emotion
But to think that this country and this government is gonna go back to some previous version of itself is crazy too.
These are not normal times. We have one party that is corrupt beyond all hope, and the founding fathers didn’t expect that to happen.
Our checks and balances are slowly eroding, and our national security has been compromised for decades.
Think of all the people who have had access to our secrets
Flynn
Ivanka
Jared
Just to name a few of the obvious ones, and they’re still out there selling them.
Do you think Trump and GOP will sit back and allow the Dems to impeach without fighting back ?
This is going to get worse before it maybe gets better. I hope something better can spring from this
Maybe, we’ll see
But to think that this country and this government is gonna go back to some previous version of itself is crazy too.
These are not normal times. We have one party that is corrupt beyond all hope, and the founding fathers didn’t expect that to happen.
Our checks and balances are slowly eroding, and our national security has been compromised for decades.
Think of all the people who have had access to our secrets
Flynn
Ivanka
Jared
Just to name a few of the obvious ones, and they’re still out there selling them.
Do you think Trump and GOP will sit back and allow the Dems to impeach without fighting back ?
This is going to get worse before it maybe gets better. I hope something better can spring from this
Maybe, we’ll see
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...VRS_DlKW9gk1XEvZdnUea-t-pvWWZAUZqmVOi2sNeSlK8
Glad this isn’t going away
Glad this isn’t going away
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Maybe stop reading the Daily Mail and it will.
It’s a pretty major story today, but you may have to jump off of the Huffington Post, or waiting for Rachel Maddow to talk about it. I could give you multiple links of the same story , but I think you should step out and broaden your horizons.
Free your mind.
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