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Old 10-15-2019, 11:17 PM   #881
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Dunno why Joe Biden thought it might surprise us that he was friends with John McCain.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:26 PM   #882
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Cheeto-eating surrender monkeys, we are.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:42 PM   #883
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First impressions??

Biden - I think he remains static. No big flubs, and actually probably his best debate so far. I think he sticks on top with Warren.

Warren - She was hit on all sides for a bit. She didn't command it like i thought she might. She seemed a bit scattered at times, and the inherent... trepidation of how Medicare for all will play in the general really got played out here. I think she might see a small slip or plateau for a bit.

Booker - Did better than usual i think. But he's done well in the past and gone nowhere.

Sanders - Did well enough. Didn't stand out much, so i think he will stay steady. Whether people just start moving from him to Warren more just because of health reasons we will see.

Harris - She struck back tonight. She didn't swing as much except against Warren once. She focused more on women's issues and abortion which got some of the best crowd response of the night. I think she gets a small bump.

Buttigieg - Commentators saying he won the night. I dunno. He seemed like an asshole for much of the night. Pretty much the thing that i thought drew people to him was his more calm and collected demeanor. BUT! I do see the flip side. I think it showed he could wipe the floor with Trump. And he is staking out that area between Biden and Warren/Sanders. Which i thought would be filled by harris, but she really hasn't.

Castro -He's good. I mean almost every debate, i think, damn, he is sharp, he is on point, but he still hasn't gotten traction either. But certain things i saw during and after the debate make me think that he is angling for a Warren VP pick.

Klobuchar -Commentators also saying she had a great night. I guess she did better than usual. But she seems nervous and unsure in her tone and demeanor. I think she would be a fine president, but she just doesn't inspire.

O'Rourke - He's staying where he's been. Go run for Senate man. Saying Warren pits people against eachother, and eluding to proactively taking guns just gave GOP and their PACs footage for days.

Yang - Did better than past debates, and i think he will continue his micro climb in the polls. Maybe 5 % by November.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:43 PM   #884
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Dunno why Joe Biden thought it might surprise us that he was friends with John McCain.
LOL. Yeah, that was pretty lame. But it does play to the moderates and indies.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:53 PM   #885
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Dunno why Joe Biden thought it might surprise us that he was friends with John McCain.
understandable that you'd think that's something a 76 year old would say, but that was actually amy klobuchar.
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:06 AM   #886
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I liked Castro's line about kids sitting in cages at the border while Trump's actions with the Kurds and Turkey could lead to ISIS prisoners being set free.
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:10 AM   #887
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understandable that you'd think that's something a 76 year old would say, but that was actually amy klobuchar.


It was also Biden.
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:21 AM   #888
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I liked Castro's line about kids sitting in cages at the border while Trump's actions with the Kurds and Turkey could lead to ISIS prisoners being set free.
Yep. I think that was brilliant.
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Old 10-16-2019, 01:08 AM   #889
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It was also Biden.
i missed that.
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:21 AM   #890
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I was a little irritated at the candidates who were going after Warren for being vague about how she was going to pay for M4A.

Look, anybody with a brain understands that taxes will probably go up as part of anyone's plan to pay for M4A, and the hope is that that increase in taxes will be less than the savings from having no premiums, deductibles, co-pays, etc, thus leading to an overall savings. Biden and others might suggest that that won't actually end up being the case, and that's probably a debate worth having. But Warren should not say out loud that she's going to raise taxes as part of her M4A plan.

Come on, if her advisors are even halfway competent, they've probably hammered over the head with 'don't ever say the words 'yes', 'raise', and 'taxes' out loud in front of a camera and/or microphone in relation to healthcare or preferably anything else, ever'. If she says it just once, they, and you know who 'they' are, will play that soundbyte in every market from Hawaii to Maine 10,000 times a day every day between now and November 2020. She says it just once, Trump, Hannity, Fox, Limbaugh, all of them, they're throwing a party.

It really irks me when candidates who have no chance of being the nominee try to goad one of the few candidates who does have a chance into saying something that could be so damaging in a potential general election campaign just for some meaningless short-term gain. To me Warren did well just by not falling for it. She may not get a bump but she'll stay steady imo. She's still my candidate.

Rant over.

As for (some) others...

Biden - There were flashes of the Biden from 2012, the more clear, forceful Biden, but there were also plenty of moments of 2019 Biden, stumbling over his words, mind working a bit slower, etc. His best debate so far, but I still have concerns about his mental quickness.

Steyer - I was initially skeptical of him even being there, but he surprised me. A lot of the time, he seemed ideologically closer to Sanders/Warren than a lot of other candidates on the stage. And I think he was the only one who mentioned climate change the whole night, so points for that.

Sanders - Did pretty well, much better(and less angry) than his last debate. I still support Warren, but I think Sanders' voice is one worth hearing in this campaign as long as he's not risking his health, and until/unless he becomes and impediment to Warren.

Probably half of the stage should drop out right now. Tulsi, Yang, Booker, Beto, Castro, at least. I like them all except Tulsi, but they have no chance and are adding nothing special. Beto should run for the Senate in Texas, I'd favor Castro and Yang getting positions in a Democratic administration, and Booker should just stay a Senator(we need all the seats we can get). I don't trust Tulsi, something about her rubs me the wrong way. I guess she's fine as a Congresswoman though.

Interesting debate all around.
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Old 10-16-2019, 07:25 AM   #891
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I like Steyer. I guess CNN definitely doesn’t want him to be the nominee though.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:01 AM   #892
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The DNC needs to stop being so fucking frightened of the fugazi blowback from the 2016 debates / nominating process and tell half of these assholes that they're not getting on the debate stage so that the next time so that people who have a god damned chance of winning can actually get more than 30 seconds to speak.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:22 AM   #893
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The media's (and some candidates') obsession with getting Warren to say that taxes are going up is maddening. At the end of the day, what matters to an actual budget of an individual or family is the overall COST. If your taxes go up but are offset (and then some) by the disappearing insurance premiums and co-pays, you are better off. That is basic math that even my son in kindergarten would understand. Who cares which bucket is being increased if the overall amount goes down?

I thought that Sanders did great. Arguably better than before the heart attack, which he needed and which is good to see.

Biden's speech was stilted and really garbled at times. You could see him lose track of what he was saying several times and it left me unnerved.

Buttigieg really came out swinging but I have to agree that at times he sounded like a petulant asshole. Truthfully not that much worse than Castro did in the last debate, except he didn't go for cheap shots. I don't think that it was a good look for him, to be honest. And Amy Klobuchar just seemed angry the whole debate. Time for her to exit, stage left.

Gabbard was totally useless, as was Steyer and they need to go.

Yang is a one-trick pony.

These debates are so stupid with 12 people on for 3 hours and basically nothing of substance can be said.
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:02 AM   #894
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Do they press Bernie to state taxes will go up or is only obsession with Warren ?

Three things should be focused on

Healthcare
Climate
Beating the Russian Mob occupying the White House / Election Security
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:29 AM   #895
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Do they press Bernie to state taxes will go up or is only obsession with Warren ?
he said straight-up last night near the beginning of the debate that taxes will go up under his medicare for all plan.
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:32 AM   #896
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Ok

Didn't have a chance to watch. I was thinking he's made it clear in the past that taxes will go up.
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:53 AM   #897
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https://twitter.com/AmziQureshi/stat...01733559357441

god what a dweeb. and to think i actually liked this guy for about 5 minutes at one point.
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:00 PM   #898
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The media's (and some candidates') obsession with getting Warren to say that taxes are going up is maddening. At the end of the day, what matters to an actual budget of an individual or family is the overall COST. If your taxes go up but are offset (and then some) by the disappearing insurance premiums and co-pays, you are better off. That is basic math that even my son in kindergarten would understand. Who cares which bucket is being increased if the overall amount goes down?

I thought that Sanders did great. Arguably better than before the heart attack, which he needed and which is good to see.

Biden's speech was stilted and really garbled at times. You could see him lose track of what he was saying several times and it left me unnerved.

Buttigieg really came out swinging but I have to agree that at times he sounded like a petulant asshole. Truthfully not that much worse than Castro did in the last debate, except he didn't go for cheap shots. I don't think that it was a good look for him, to be honest. And Amy Klobuchar just seemed angry the whole debate. Time for her to exit, stage left.

Gabbard was totally useless, as was Steyer and they need to go.

Yang is a one-trick pony.

These debates are so stupid with 12 people on for 3 hours and basically nothing of substance can be said.

The reason is very simple why they want her to say it. SHE SHOULD! It's Bernie's plan that she's backing. Bernie has said simply, taxes will go up, but the amount saved in premiums, copays and deductibles will end up saving middle and lower class Americans money. Bam, easy, done.
The fact that she wouldn't say it, makes her look evasive and not have a handle on the plan, which we know she obviously does.

I for one, really like Warren. But I would like to know some figures on this thing. How much will taxes go up for me? Will it really be less than I would pay now for my coverage? What sort of time frame for implementation?
I really think that making the largest inaction of a social program in our country's history deserves some specifics.
And to be honest, M4A, while most likely being what will inevitably be enacted at some point in our country's future, is a loser with huge swaths of general election voters at this moment. Most likely because of not knowing how exactly it will effect them and their families.

Imagine your boss saying - ok, we are going to have a employee vote to see if we should let our company be acquired by someone else.
It will be run differently, and a lot of changes are coming. But i can't really tell you when or how these changes will happen.
For many people here, it will mean they will see some more income, but I can't tell you how it will effect you specifically. Have a good day!
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:56 PM   #899
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the heart attack, which he needed .
He needed the heart attack?

 
I know what you were saying, but the phrasing came off looking like what I quoted, just wanted to point it out for a giggle.
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:47 PM   #900
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Ok

Didn't have a chance to watch. I was thinking he's made it clear in the past that taxes will go up.
I'm pretty sure he's consistently said this all along.
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