US Politics XV: Time to Mull Mueller Mania - Page 13 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-08-2019, 08:30 PM   #241
Blue Crack Supplier
 
dazzledbylight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: in the sound dancing - w Bono & Edge :D
Posts: 34,521
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Law students everywhere, here is the "Trump Defense".

https://www.thedailybeast.com/man-wh...a=twitter_page
That ex-soilder has to have some kind if punishment.
__________________

dazzledbylight is offline  
Old 08-09-2019, 07:09 AM   #242
War Child
 
Jerry Dunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: South Philadelphia
Posts: 818
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Biden needs to drop out. For all the commentary about Trump being in the early to mid stages of dementia, and I believe he is, Biden looks and sounds seriously unwell. This doesn't even have to do with his policies. I do not think he will be coherent by this time next year. He's already pretty incoherent as it is. Just within the last week, he's had like half a dozen instances of him sounding like he is having a medical issue. He's not finishing thoughts, he's mixing up names, the "Joe 30330" thing, and now this "poor kids are just as bright as white kids" debacle.

The whole "people think Biden can win" thing is the only thing propping him up, and we're way too far out from the election for that to be a serious consideration.
__________________

Jerry Dunk is offline  
Old 08-09-2019, 07:13 AM   #243
War Child
 
Jerry Dunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: South Philadelphia
Posts: 818
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
This isn't to downplay policy and the importance of ideas. We need fresh ideas and fresh candidates and not the same old retreads.
Saying "we just need to win" and "we just need someone to run against Trump" is at odds with this statement. And supporting Biden is directly at odds with this statement.
Jerry Dunk is offline  
Old 08-09-2019, 07:15 AM   #244
War Child
 
Jerry Dunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: South Philadelphia
Posts: 818
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
Or decriminalizing the boarder and making private health insurance illegal.

Both possibly good ideas, both likely electoral poison pills.
I'm for open borders, but I'm not calling for that to be the Dem nominee's platform. I'm not insane. But always remember that the US population is significantly further to the left than politicians and media believe it to be, as study after study has shown. A clear, concise message behind killing private insurance with full confidence and no hedging has never been attempted, and we shouldn't dismiss it out of hand because Chuck Todd and Jake Tapper aren't so sure about this.
Jerry Dunk is offline  
Old 08-09-2019, 08:04 AM   #245
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,249
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Dunk View Post
Biden needs to drop out. For all the commentary about Trump being in the early to mid stages of dementia, and I believe he is, Biden looks and sounds seriously unwell.
I agree with this. He comes across as very old and not mentally sharp. And similar to Trump, there is an inability to sometimes finish thoughts or the words come out as if his mouth is full of marbles. It's age, hits everyone differently.

Bernie seems much sharper.

And Warren seems like she's 20 years younger than the 3 of them.
anitram is offline  
Old 08-09-2019, 08:14 AM   #246
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 65,326
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Dunk View Post
Saying "we just need to win" and "we just need someone to run against Trump" is at odds with this statement. And supporting Biden is directly at odds with this statement.
Who the hell ever said anything about supporting Biden?

I've said over and over again that I preferred that he doesn't run, and that the last thing we need is another 70+ year old white male as president.
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 08-09-2019, 08:16 AM   #247
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 65,326
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post


dan marino certainly isn't sharing any political tweets (at least not in 2019, i read his entire timeline back that far), unless you count a post remembering the victims of parkland on the one-year anniversary.

the owner guy didn't have any stake in the team whatsoever until 2008, more than eight years after marino played his last game.

headache's post still doesn't make any sense at all.
You're reading wayyyy too much into the only dolphins related insult I could think of on short notice
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 08-09-2019, 08:19 AM   #248
Blue Crack Addict
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 16,572
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
You're reading wayyyy too much into the only dolphins related insult I could think of on short notice


You sort of missed the mark on humor but I understood you
LuckyNumber7 is offline  
Old 08-09-2019, 10:16 AM   #249
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 32,721
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Dunk View Post
A clear, concise message behind killing private insurance with full confidence and no hedging has never been attempted, and we shouldn't dismiss it out of hand because Chuck Todd and Jake Tapper aren't so sure about this.

it doesn't poll well, either. so it's less about Todd and Tapper and more about the actual evidence we have that 250m voters don't want to part with their present employer-sponsored health care.

you can argue that it's the framing, or that Bernie is just one speech away from changing everyone's minds, but the empirical evidence we have suggests that killing private insurance is an electoral loser. spooking 250m people isn't a good idea, even if it's incrementally growing in popularity.

https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public...care-coverage/

it's not there yet.

if it's DOA in the Senate anyway, and politically risky with even the most favorable framing, why should this be a centerpiece of the D 2020 platform?

with a D president and the D's controlling both houses of congress, maybe we can get there. it took 10 years for the ACA to become popular. the ACA is what delivered the 2010 "shellacking" for the Democrats, which gave us many of the insanities that we have today. further, most European countries don't have single payer systems but more tightly regulated private insurance companies competing.

i can take the distinction that people love their doctor but hate their insurance company, but i don't have confidence that's a distinction that can be clearly made in the present political climate. and it becomes a singular reason to vote for Trump for certain uncomfortable voters, similar to how many put up with Trump because of judges/abortion.
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 08-09-2019, 10:17 AM   #250
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 32,721
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
You're reading wayyyy too much into the only dolphins related insult I could think of on short notice


as a species, dolphins are total sluts, so the gonorrhea comment was entirely appropriate.
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 08-09-2019, 10:21 AM   #251
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
womanfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: moons of Zooropa
Posts: 6,340
Local Time: 06:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Dunk View Post
Biden needs to drop out. For all the commentary about Trump being in the early to mid stages of dementia, and I believe he is, Biden looks and sounds seriously unwell. This doesn't even have to do with his policies. I do not think he will be coherent by this time next year. He's already pretty incoherent as it is. Just within the last week, he's had like half a dozen instances of him sounding like he is having a medical issue. He's not finishing thoughts, he's mixing up names, the "Joe 30330" thing, and now this "poor kids are just as bright as white kids" debacle.

The whole "people think Biden can win" thing is the only thing propping him up, and we're way too far out from the election for that to be a serious consideration.
This is the kind of entertainment that makes it worth checking in on this board daily.

This is the same conservative attack they put on Clinton in 16. You just echoed what Trump said on the south lawn an hour ago. Hell, are we sure there isn't a Biden body double making the rounds at his campaign events??

I think what we need to do is let the voters decide. If Biden self-destructs it will be reflected in support for him and he won't be the nominee. Calling for him to drop out because he sounds old and "not well" is absolute nonsense, especially while we still have to listen to about 15 contenders who won't even make the debate stage still yammering.

This is all going to shake out when the next debate hits and you have the main players all on one stage.
We see the polls moving more dramatically now. You see Warren rising fast, Biden staying level, Harris rise and then fall, and Bernie slowly decline.

Bernie is struggling right now. Warren has put forward a very similar message but does it in a way that Bernie never has and refuses to do. Specifics. It shows this is what voters want.
When a bold policy is put forward, Bernie's reply is - It will take a movement, and political will of everyone coming together to get it done. Warren says here is my detailed plan of how this will get done.
In doing so, she has siphoned off huge chunks of Bernie supporters.
Iowa poll from April to now has Warren jumping up 12 spots and Sanders declining by 7.

Let's be honest. Every election cycle there is an overarching theme that motivates the electorate. As of now, that is beating Trump. I would say that is stronger now than ever after this past weekend.
Poll yesterday asked:
If you had to choose between someone who you don't agree much with on policy but can beat Trump would you choose them. Or if someone you agree strongly with on policy but may not beat Trump, who would you choose.
70% to 22% chose beating Trump.

You can decry it all you want as you are clearly in the 22%. But this is the reality on the ground. Is the person that can surely win Biden or Sanders or Warren or Harris? Not sure. I have my own opinions on that. But what is clear is that there is a strong field of people that can do it, its just up to the Dem voters to decide along the way who they think is that person.
womanfish is offline  
Old 08-09-2019, 01:30 PM   #252
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: mar-a-lago delenda est
Posts: 21,057
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
You're reading wayyyy too much into the only dolphins related insult I could think of on short notice
lol, that's genuinely a relief. my sorta-liberal dad basically thinks dan marino is a living god, so if "dan the man" had done or said something deplorable that made him truly deserve a miserable death from gonorrhea, i'd have had to deal with the trauma of that next time i talk to pops.
DaveC is online now  
Old 08-09-2019, 01:33 PM   #253
War Child
 
Jerry Dunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: South Philadelphia
Posts: 818
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
Who the hell ever said anything about supporting Biden?

I've said over and over again that I preferred that he doesn't run, and that the last thing we need is another 70+ year old white male as president.
I was making a broader point, wrapping in the notion that Biden's greatest asset is his electability. It can't just be "who can win in 2020?" because there's way too diverse a thought about how you even accomplish that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
it doesn't poll well, either. so it's less about Todd and Tapper and more about the actual evidence we have that 250m voters don't want to part with their present employer-sponsored health care.

you can argue that it's the framing, or that Bernie is just one speech away from changing everyone's minds, but the empirical evidence we have suggests that killing private insurance is an electoral loser. spooking 250m people isn't a good idea, even if it's incrementally growing in popularity.

https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public...care-coverage/

it's not there yet.

if it's DOA in the Senate anyway, and politically risky with even the most favorable framing, why should this be a centerpiece of the D 2020 platform?

with a D president and the D's controlling both houses of congress, maybe we can get there. it took 10 years for the ACA to become popular. the ACA is what delivered the 2010 "shellacking" for the Democrats, which gave us many of the insanities that we have today. further, most European countries don't have single payer systems but more tightly regulated private insurance companies competing.

i can take the distinction that people love their doctor but hate their insurance company, but i don't have confidence that's a distinction that can be clearly made in the present political climate. and it becomes a singular reason to vote for Trump for certain uncomfortable voters, similar to how many put up with Trump because of judges/abortion.
Killing private insurance polls poorly when the polls are designed in a way to make it seem that it polls poorly. So, sure, when someone says "do you like your insurance" as opposed to not having insurance, it polls well. And "how would you feel about having your private insurance taken away" when the alternative is, again, not having insurance or having to go with the ACA, then yes, it does not poll well.

When the poll actually focuses on a single payer health system directly replacing that private insurance that you "lose," the numbers come out very differently. I read pretty deeply about this phenomenon a couple of months back, I'll have to go back and find some of the materials, but the distinction needs to be made. It's the fear that the electorate can't be bothered with the distinction that always has us running away from actual policies people would benefit from. We need to get away from that cycle and stop being afraid of what Republicans will say about plans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by womanfish View Post
This is the kind of entertainment that makes it worth checking in on this board daily.

This is the same conservative attack they put on Clinton in 16. You just echoed what Trump said on the south lawn an hour ago. Hell, are we sure there isn't a Biden body double making the rounds at his campaign events??

I think what we need to do is let the voters decide. If Biden self-destructs it will be reflected in support for him and he won't be the nominee. Calling for him to drop out because he sounds old and "not well" is absolute nonsense, especially while we still have to listen to about 15 contenders who won't even make the debate stage still yammering.
Just because there were bad faith arguments made about Clinton in 2016 does not mean Biden is above criticism. Clinton's were made with a sexist edge that you simply cannot claim here with Biden. And I think you are greatly understating how bad Biden is coming off right now. It's about way more than my personal disagreements with his policies. And it's not just him being prone to gaffes. This is something different, and the frequency with which it is occurring is accelerating.

I worry about everyone talking themselves into Biden's electability and covering their eyes and ears over his mental faculties declining. This post from you is the sort of thing I mean. I think you're ignoring what's right in front of your face. I'm far from the only person noticing.

And I'd be happy to dump Ryan, Hickenlooper, Delaney, and the rest of the flotsam from the debates. You won't get an argument from me there. But this race should really come down to Harris, Sanders, and Warren.
Jerry Dunk is offline  
Old 08-09-2019, 02:24 PM   #254
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 32,721
Local Time: 02:25 AM
it's strange to me why Booker hasn't caught fire -- he and Buttigeig are the most skilled debaters on the stage, and the one's who, to me, seem to be charting the right course, which is saying "we're better than this (Trump), let's keep our eye on the ball (Trump)" and appealing to our collective better angels and pointing towards the future, which is what Obama did. but it's early and there are too many people. we're all writing things that are going to be wrong in 9 months.

there's lots to admire about Warren, and i much prefer her to Bernie in style and substance. but i don't think it's improper to worry about how an older, intellectual, white woman with 10 plans 'till Tuesday will go over, given what happened in 2016. like HRC, i think she'd be a much better president than candidate. i'm trying to shake these fears as sexist preconditioning, but that's legitimately how i'm feeling at the moment. granted, she hasn't had 30 years of right wing smears to contend with, but there are echo's of Hillary's shortcomings in the Warren package that i will need to be answered to feel comfortable. i don't mean this necessarily as legitimate criticism, i'm just putting myself on the proverbial couch and confessing my fears.

i agree with concerns about Joe's shakiness and loss of some degree of mental agility. i missed most of the first debate, except for the Harris vial moments, but i did watch about half of his second debate. he wasn't bad, but he also didn't shake these concerns about his sharpness. but then, in fairness to Uncle Joe, he was completely perfect in Iowa talking about the mass shootings.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...e39_story.html

and this was pretty good too:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/25/u...ouncement.html

the candidate who tells the best story is the candidate who wins. Uncle Joe tells pretty good stories.
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 08-09-2019, 02:41 PM   #255
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,249
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
the candidate who tells the best story is the candidate who wins.
I'm pretty sure that Game of Thrones (painfully) disabused us of that notion.
anitram is offline  
Old 08-09-2019, 04:46 PM   #256
Blue Crack Addict
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 16,572
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Booker and Bootyjudge are the Christie and Rubio it this field.
LuckyNumber7 is offline  
Old 08-09-2019, 05:04 PM   #257
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 65,326
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
Booker and Bootyjudge are the Christie and Rubio it this field.
The candidates that probably could have won if there weren't 50 other candidates and one guy making a mockery of the whole thing?
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 08-09-2019, 05:26 PM   #258
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 32,721
Local Time: 02:25 AM
How is Booker going to kneecap BootyEdge?

(That remains the #2 moment of Christie’s career)
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 08-09-2019, 07:32 PM   #259
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,249
Local Time: 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
How is Booker going to kneecap BootyEdge?

(That remains the #2 moment of Christie’s career)


I think that Tulsi Gabbard tried the murder suicide route at the second debate.
anitram is offline  
Old 08-09-2019, 09:57 PM   #260
Blue Crack Distributor
 
bono_212's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 83,006
Local Time: 11:25 PM
At the end of the day, I fully expect Warren to be the nominee. It just feels inevitable, and I'm surprised how "here for it" I am
__________________

__________________
bono_212 is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×