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Old 02-19-2020, 12:01 PM   #701
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
I know we discuss serious business mostly, but can somebody help a gal out and identify the misfits??
gay = prince edward
architect = prince charles
horsey-faced lesbian = princess anne
kid who gave up koo stark = prince andrew
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:06 PM   #702
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By constantly attacking any request or criticism as FAKE NEWS

Except for Bernie it’s

RIGGED
ESTABLISHMENT
SMEAR CAMPAIGN
THIS IS LIKE BIRTHIRISM

He cannot handle being challenged. Neither can Trump.

He also said he was going to release his medical information.

Now he’s saying he isn’t going to. Why?

He’s lucky to have congress health coverage (plus Medicare) cause no insurance company would cover him for being such a high risk.

I’ll vote for him but i do not like him, his campaign at all.

And don’t think Trump won’t leak any confidential Bernie info in the run up to the election.

We’ll never see Trumps taxes, but you can bet we’ll see all of Bernie’s.

Hope he’s got nothing to hide


Oh yes, discounting your opponent’s attempt at attacking you is the same as pedaling conspiracy theories and being a shadow racist/sexist pig.

Give me a break. Every campaign does this.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:12 PM   #703
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gay = prince edward

architect = prince charles

horsey-faced lesbian = princess anne

kid who gave up koo stark = prince andrew


To be fair, these terms could be used describe several of my friends.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:14 PM   #704
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LOL. Bloomberg's campaign manager on MSNBC, says, that if the candidates go up on stage and go after each other, they just help Trump. Well... that would be nice for Bloomberg not to get attacked on stage, But that aint gonna happen.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:20 PM   #705
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This may shock you, but I completely agree with you on this. The deal is though , most of the posters on here don’t seem to really care about how the Democrats talk about women, minorities, etc, because they never respond to it.

It’s the same with the majority of Democrat politicians. They say what they need to say, and do what they need to do to get elected. That’s why “suddenly” all the Dems went from being anti gay marriage, to pro gay marriage, at the same time, what a coincidence! They go where the PC police send them, that’s liberalism.

That’s why guys like Biden, Bloomberg, Warren , etc make so many gaffes about the African American community, white privilege, how women are treated....because they don’t really know or care, they just want control and want to win.

I used to be a liberal, I know how it works. I just couldn’t in good conscience follow an ideology that lacked so much fact, and self awareness. Sorry for the overlong rant.

Anyway, that’s why no one cares that Bloomberg has made horribly sexist and racist comments
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:23 PM   #706
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This may shock you, but I completely agree with you on this.
no, your dumb racist ass does not completely agree with me on this or anything else in any way shape or form.

Quote:
I used to be a liberal
yeah and i used to be the pope
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:27 PM   #707
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The deal is though , most of the posters on here don’t seem to really care about how the Democrats talk about women, minorities, etc, because they never respond to it.
You definitely caught us!

President Al Franken has really worked out great.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:35 PM   #708
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i love how bernie having a heart attack and not immediately revealing every detail to the public about it is just like trump it's a cult ohemgee he'll be dead by november, while the reveal over the last few days of bloomberg having had attitudes adjacent to "grab her by the pussy" for decades has been casually handwaved away or just ignored outright here.

literally two people besides me have mentioned it and one was "well he's not doing anything anti-trans on day one" and the other was "surprise surprise a a CEO treats his employees like shit, trump supporters can't talk about morality anymore".

think of the response here if it came out that sanders has spent decades making sexist comments about women like this, or a tape was revealed where he openly talked about black neighbourhoods being "where all the crime is". this place would crucify him relentlessly for a week.
i've posted about bernie's issues with his campaign before - be it the accusations of sexism or the laughable failure to live up to his own standards of hourly wage or equal pay (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/u...gn-sexism.html). guess what? it was dismissed by sanders supporters.

criticism of sanders or his campaign always gets shot down, the same way those who are in favor of other candidates downplay negative comments

the same way you're downplaying his heart attacks

the same way sanders supporters in here downplay the issues with the bernie very online crowd (we just watch too much cnn, it doesn't actually exist).

or how we can talk ad nauseam about stop and frisk or comments biden made in the past as being irreparable and disqualifying, but sanders voting record in favor of the crime bill, his gun record, etc. are glossed over because i guess he's allowed to change his mind or perspective but other candidates aren't.

or over how warren's campaign was torpedoed over bernie's comments about women not being able to win an election (oh, no, not bernie he could never say that - warren is a snake!)

or how warren actually put together a proposal for paying for all the shit, whereas bernie continues to just gloss over that without any sort of negative impact to his own campaign.

or shall we just go all in and dig into bernie's comments about cuba or the sandinistas when he was mayor of burlington? how breadlines are a good thing because some countries don't even have bread lines? (i'm sure there was (maybe) some context behind it but wooo wee just think about those commercials in the general)

what about his praise for castro? think he wants a mulligan there? shall we talk about that? (“The people we met had an almost religious affection for [Fidel Castro]. The revolution there is far deep and more profound than I understood it to be. It really is a revolution in terms of values.”)



it would appear that fans of all candidates are more willing to overlook faults in their chosen candidates than they are in others.


i don't throw away the things that mike bloomberg has done or said in his past. there are issues there that he needs to account for. there are issues with every candidate that they need to account for. many of these issues trouble me.

but i'm looking at two things...
1) does he have the ground game and organization that is capable of winning a national election?,
2) his actual record of governance for 12 years, managing one of the largest economies in the world in one of the most liberal cities in the US through not one but two enormous crises.


i don't push back against the spotty marks on his record. am i guilty of letting some things slide that i might not in another candidate? yea, probably. so are you. so is everyone.

I do, however, push back against the sanders stans go-to "he's just like trump" as this is a complete and utter line of bullshit. or "hey, here's a picture of trump with bloomberg. see? they're the same!

we have 3 years of donald trump governing.

we have 12 years of mike bloomberg governing.

anyone who can look at what has happened in this country in the past 3 years and line them up against bloomberg's record of governance and actually say that they are comparable is being disingenuous at best and laughably naive and dangerously selfish at worst.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:44 PM   #709
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It’s the same with the majority of Democrat politicians. They say what they need to say, and do what they need to do to get elected. That’s why “suddenly” all the Dems went from being anti gay marriage, to pro gay marriage, at the same time, what a coincidence! They go where the PC police send them, that’s liberalism.


honestly: what are you even talking about?

the whole reason i am a married gay man is because Barack Obama was elected president in 2008 and again in 2012 and he nominated two justices to the Supreme Court who ruled in favor of marriage equality in June of 2015. i am now married and, if you're talking about specific rights, able to get insurance through my husband's place of employment which was impossible up until June of 2015. i would not be married today if John McCain or Mitt Romney had won.

further, the SCOTUS case was made possible after nearly 2 decades of legal work by left-wing groups who slowly and persuasively made the arguments for SSM, even after suffering a string of big defeats in elections -- thanks to lovely, compassionate "Christians" such as yourself -- in the early and mid-00s. yes, politicians were cautious. we all knew Obama was pro-SSM even when he said he wasn't because we knew he had to play a long game because winning was more important than purity, or even total honesty.

i literally owe the life i know to Obama.

show me one thing the GOP has ever done to help LGBT people.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:59 PM   #710
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i haven't downplayed his heart attacks.

i don't like his voting record on guns but also do understand that his constituency is over 60% rural and that he was elected to represent them and he voted the way they wanted him to.

yes he voted for the crime bill but it's a little more complicated than that: https://www.vox.com/2016/2/26/111164...-incarceration

no, the back-and-forth about the comments he is alleged to make did not singlehandedly torpedo the warren campaign. it doesn't seem in his character to have said something like that so bluntly which is why i'm skeptical that he said it exactly like that. maybe there was context or maybe he said something that wasn't that blunt but has been misrepresented. we can't know either way unless some other evidence that supports one side or the other emerges. and as far as "glossing over" the details of costs, why should he deliberately make the exact same blunder that killed warren's upward momentum? get back to us when republicans get asked for the first time ever how they plan to fund tax cuts and border walls and military interventions during a campaign.

expressing admiration for castro or the cuban revolution is not the same thing as repeatedly making flat-out racist and sexist comments, like at all. so don't even go there trying to paint those as equivalent things that sanders supporters equally don't care about.

i don't think he's anywhere near as bad morally as trump and that it's a silly thing to say that.

but i do sincerely think electing bloomberg would be nearly as bad for the health of american democracy as another four years of trump would. you're just opening the door at that point to bezos 2024 and zuckerberg 2028, and who's going to stop any of them if we clearly say this time around "yes if you have enough money to bury everyone else, you can purchase the most powerful office in the world, and become commander-in-chief of the most powerful military on earth"? how is that not inflicting a mortal wound on american democracy as we know it?
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:16 PM   #711
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Bloomberg is a billionaire, but he also was the mayor of NYC for 12 years.

Trump, who is not a billionaire, was not. Same with the other billionaires you mentioned.

He’s as politically legitimate as DeBlasio, probably more so. He just has a lot more money.
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:18 PM   #712
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At this point, I sure wish Bloomberg would have just endorsed Biden and spent hundreds of millions on ads for him. One can dream.
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:19 PM   #713
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where did i question his legitimacy? he's clearly a legitimate candidate.

it's the way that he's going about his campaign (and the way a lot of people seem to be totally fine with it) that i have a massive problem with.
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:25 PM   #714
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where did i question his legitimacy? he's clearly a legitimate candidate.

it's the way that he's going about his campaign (and the way a lot of people seem to be totally fine with it) that i have a massive problem with.


I don’t think he’s opening the door to Bezos or Zuckerberg. He’s not quite a “creeping oligarchy!” argument.
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:25 PM   #715
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Bloomberg is a billionaire, but he also was the mayor of NYC for 12 years.

Trump, who is not a billionaire, was not. Same with the other billionaires you mentioned.

He’s as politically legitimate as DeBlasio, probably more so. He just has a lot more money.
This is the part that's so silly and misleading about the attacks on him - the ones that are more or less making him out to be just another bored rich guy.

This is absolutely not the same as Bezos or anyone else hoping in. It's not the same as Trump. It's much closer to Romney or Kerry - actual politicians who also happen to be wealthy.
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:33 PM   #716
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i have no problem with a rich guy wanting to be president and campaigning for donations, knocking on doors, holding rallies and speaking to voters. romney and kerry did all of those things.

i have a problem with a campaign that just shovels unfathomable amounts of money into advertising that nobody else can hope to match and not bothering with nearly any of the hard work of earning votes, and people being like "that's fine because the other guy is a socialist".
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:36 PM   #717
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At this point, I sure wish Bloomberg would have just endorsed Biden and spent hundreds of millions on ads for him. One can dream.
Money is not Biden's problem. I mean, his poor fundraising will catch up to him eventually but that's just a symptom of the larger problem - he's a bad campaigner, he seems half senile and doesn't appear to be exciting or motivating large swaths of any constituency. The mere fact that his famed AA firewall has given way to a billionaire who pushed Stop & Frisk but who has managed to get into better AA polling numbers than the other candidates by running on gun control tells you all you need to know about Biden.

The fundamental problem on the Democratic side is that despite what any one of us think about Bernie, it's undeniable that he has been a HARD SELL for more than 50% of the left, nevermind the right. And on the other side of the divide you have Biden who is basically in the process of a historic collapse, followed by Mayor Pete and Amy Klobuchar who are polling in the single digits nationally, do not have the infrastructure needed to keep competing (like say, Warren), much less win and cannot compete with Bloomberg on the money front either. Therefore something has to give - either the centrist Democrats unite behind Bloomberg because statistically/mathematically I believe that there are more of them and he makes it through. OR they get comfortable really quickly with the idea of Bernie Sanders being the nominee and cross over to vote for him. Bernie's hardcore voters are in a way irrelevant - they simply do not have the numbers on their own to dictate the outcome of the primaries.

A reasonable compromise, or so I thought, would have been Elizabeth Warren, but apparently she's unpalatable to the Bernie crowd, and the centrists have too many candidates that are courting them as it is. Plus you know, women have to be 10x as good as men at basically everything to succeed to the same level. Lather, rinse, repeat, the ladies here know what I'm talking about.
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:37 PM   #718
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i have no problem with a rich guy wanting to be president and campaigning for donations, knocking on doors, holding rallies and speaking to voters. romney and kerry did all of those things.

i have a problem with a campaign that just shovels unfathomable amounts of money into advertising that nobody else can hope to match and not bothering with nearly any of the hard work of earning votes, and people being like "that's fine because the other guy is a socialist".


You’ve been putting a lot of words into people’s’ mouths lately. I haven’t seen one person say that. Actually, the one thing I admire about Bloomberg is that he’s said that no matter who the nominee is, he’ll pump as much money as possible to get Trump out.
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:38 PM   #719
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i have no problem with a rich guy wanting to be president and campaigning for donations, knocking on doors, holding rallies and speaking to voters. romney and kerry did all of those things.
Except that he is specifically NOT fundraising and directing people to donate their $ to downticket elections. Is that not actually a favourable outcome, despite what we may personally feel about Bloomberg? Imagine if the $1 billion that would be spent in an ordinary election by a D nominee gets funneled into Senate and Congressional races?
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:51 PM   #720
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i have no problem with a rich guy wanting to be president and campaigning for donations, knocking on doors, holding rallies and speaking to voters. romney and kerry did all of those things.

i have a problem with a campaign that just shovels unfathomable amounts of money into advertising that nobody else can hope to match and not bothering with nearly any of the hard work of earning votes, and people being like "that's fine because the other guy is a socialist".
What if John Kerry would have spent more of that sweet sweet ketchup money on his own campaign and let the donations be spent on down ticket campaigns to elect blue senators, congresspeople, governors and mayors? 11 states voted to ban same sex marriage in 2004.

And Mike Bloomberg has been holding rallies and speaking to voters. He's been doing it for months - just not in the first four states, and he's not asking any of them for their money. He is very much doing the hard work, just doing it without a hand out because he doesn't need it.
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