US Politics XIX: Just an Echo Chamber Living In Your Heads

[womanfish]

What is scary is how good the GOP is at gaming the system. They are full on Trumpists now. They have tons of $$$, they are amoral, and will do whatever it takes to stay in power.

To be honest I don't know if anyone on that stage, save an Obama, would have the resources.

I read a comment a while back that the Trump Presidency ended with the acquittal. the Trump Reign began. He's only gotten worse since then.

Well Bloomberg has the resources. He could outspend Trump any day.

He just needs to debate more like he did in the second half last night, and then some to actually give people the confidence to back him.

Bigger question. What the actual fuck is Steyer doing? He is polling at 2 percent nationally, and doesn't even register on Super Tuesday. But he's taking away 10 points in NV and 14 in SC??? Seriously, what the fuck.

 

[nbelcik]

I clearly called out systematic racism that you’re alluding to. Don’t come at me like I’m defending Michael Bloomberg. I’m clearly not. I was differentiating his terrible policies that have logic and emotion intermixed (ex. surveilling a mosque because on paper it superficially makes sense even though in real numbers it does not and is incredibly offensive and hurtful).

What’s weird about your response to me is that I literally called the man some form of a racist and you’re coming at me... telling me he’s a racist. Ok.

Problem is you started out your comment by stating “I’m not convinced Bloomberg is a racist” and that his policies came out of rationalism. No, his policies came out of racist ideas. If I misinterpreted your post, sincere apologies.

 

[BEAL]

https://twitter.com/brianklaas/status/1230547271990829060?s=21

But her emails

 

[nbelcik]

Explain the “outright hostility “ of Republicans versus the soft bigotry of low expectations for Democrats.



Obviously there’s lots of variance within the groups, but Democrats consistently overpromise “free stuff” and don’t deliver. Most of them know they won’t or can’t deliver, but many Dems (unfortunately not too much deep thinking put into it) feel that victim mentality that the party pushes, and then feel that whatever group you’re talking about (women, people of color, gays) don’t have the same chance at leading a successful life without the almighty government’s help, which is a lie, and has been since Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society.



The Democratic Party keeps poor people poor, by incentivizing welfare, free, free , free stuff, and all other government control.



And they don’t like when women , African Americans, Hispanics, Gays, etc, realize they can live a more abundant , successful life, without the Democratic Party , and step out of line.



To answer your question, many Democrats like their free stuff(which isn’t really free, other people have to pay for it), or want to pretend to be compassionate by supporting these policies, which won’t spend THEIR own money, but other peoples money. It’s easy to be “compassionate “ with other people’s money. That’s your Democrat Party, and why so many still follow

Are you seriously going to argue that the GOP, which has consistently opposed any LGBTQ rights measures and still does, has dozens of politicians and media personalities who commonly use hateful language about LGBTQ couples (go look up the Family Research Council), and are actively working to pass anti LGBTQ laws in multiple states, is not hostile to LGBTQ people?

And here we have the “free stuff” trope. It ignores that almost every American receives subsidies in some way from the government. It also ignores the fact that it is minority groups themselves advocating for more social programs. Somehow you think that they’re being misled by Democratic leadership from the top, while it’s actually marginalized communities pushing for those policies because they know those policies are in their best interest. And it’s in their best interest because it’s been clear for the past forty years that the free market cannot solve problems like the racial wealth gap or environmental racism.

The fact is the government created the conditions for wealth creation for white Americans by subsidizing home ownership and education after WWII. It was government policy that created the middle class.

 

[anitram]

According to Gzus here, he knows better what's good for women, people of colour and the LGBTQ+ community than the members of those various groups.

According to him, as a woman I'm in it for the "free stuff" because I haven't realized that I can "live a more abundant, successful life" by voting for the right. It would be hysterically funny if it wasn't so disconnected from reality.

 

[womanfish]

According to Gzus here, he knows better what's good for women, people of colour and the LGBTQ+ community than the members of those various groups.

According to him, as a woman I'm in it for the "free stuff" because I haven't realized that I can "live a more abundant, successful life" by voting for the right. It would be hysterically funny if it wasn't so disconnected from reality.

Listen little lady. You're getting hysterical and shrill. Here in TN, the GOP (Good Ol' Republicans) are making sure that the weaker sex has to rightly pay a luxury tax on sanitary devices for their lady parts. THAT is leadership!! We don't do free for freeloaders here!

Now run along and go get yourself some discounted, socialist pads in whatever libtard state you reside in!

 

[Hewson]

bloomberg's odds of winning the nomination at betfair.com have gone from 28.2% to 21.5% just since the start of the debate and it's only half over.

edit: and since i made this post 2 min ago it's now down to 19.8% lmao

Just looked at that site and they have Bono as 501-1 odds to become the next Pope.

 

[DaveC]

Just looked at that site and they have Bono as 501-1 odds to become the next Pope.

 

[Irvine511]

Listen little lady. You're getting hysterical and shrill. Here in TN, the GOP (Good Ol' Republicans) are making sure that the weaker sex has to rightly pay a luxury tax on sanitary devices for their lady parts. THAT is leadership!! We don't do free for freeloaders here!



Now run along and go get yourself some discounted, socialist pads in whatever libtard state you reside in!

And remember to SMILE!

 

[Hollow Island]

Explain the “outright hostility “ of Republicans versus the soft bigotry of low expectations for Democrats.

Obviously there’s lots of variance within the groups, but Democrats consistently overpromise “free stuff” and don’t deliver. Most of them know they won’t or can’t deliver, but many Dems (unfortunately not too much deep thinking put into it) feel that victim mentality that the party pushes, and then feel that whatever group you’re talking about (women, people of color, gays) don’t have the same chance at leading a successful life without the almighty government’s help, which is a lie, and has been since Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society.

The Democratic Party keeps poor people poor, by incentivizing welfare, free, free , free stuff, and all other government control.

The Dems keep people poor. Get the fuck outta here. First of all, traditionally Republican states are the poorest. Second of all, 30 of the last 50 years have had Republican presidents so if you want to blame a group for poverty, blame the one was in power for 60 percent of the time. Bush 2 destroyed the global economy, Reagan crashed the stock market, etc. Since WW2, the economy was in recession during 28 percent of the time the Goops were in office compared to 7 percent for the dems. The economy grew 2.5 percent under your cult vs 4.5 percent under the dems.

You're also ignoring that countries that provide more "free stuff" (aka the social safety net) than the USA have healthier societies by every standard that I've seen, including less poverty and longer life expectancy.

It's amazing how people like you blame social programs for the ills of the united states when a simple comparison with other countries illustrates that the lack of income redistribution through social programs, including a strong public school system, affordable post secondary education, and public health care, are the real problem.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

The Democratic Party keeps poor people poor, by incentivizing welfare, free, free , free stuff, and all other government control.

And they don’t like when women , African Americans, Hispanics, Gays, etc, realize they can live a more abundant , successful life, without the Democratic Party , and step out of line.

I would ask you to just fucking stop already with this kind of BS already, because seriously, no. No, no, no, no, no.

But you haven't listened to a word of any argument that proves you wrong thus far, so why even bother thinking you'll do so now?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

WASHINGTON — Intelligence officials warned House lawmakers last week that Russia was interfering in the 2020 campaign to try to get President Trump re-elected, five people familiar with the matter said, in a disclosure that angered Mr. Trump, who complained that Democrats would use it against him.

The day after the Feb. 13 briefing to lawmakers, Mr. Trump berated Joseph Maguire, the outgoing acting director of national intelligence, for allowing it to take place, people familiar with the exchange said. Mr. Trump cited the presence in the briefing of Representative Adam B. Schiff, the California Democrat who led the impeachment proceedings against him, as a particular irritant.

During the briefing to the House Intelligence Committee, Mr. Trump’s allies challenged the conclusions, arguing that Mr. Trump has been tough on Russia and strengthened European security. Some intelligence officials viewed the briefing as a tactical error, saying that had official who delivered the conclusion spoken less pointedly or left it out, they would have avoided angering the Republicans.

That intelligence official, Shelby Pierson, is an aide to Mr. Maguire who has a reputation of delivering intelligence in somewhat blunt terms. The president announced on Wednesday that he was replacing Mr. Maguire with Richard Grenell, the ambassador to Germany and long an aggressively vocal Trump supporter.

 

[BEAL]

There was not one comment last night about the destruction of our institutions, and the lawlessness of the President. He has completely gutted the government and filled them with his own personal "acting" stooges to avoid congressional approval.

Instead we fought about socialized healthcare and billionaires. Not saying these things aren't important, but seems like the bigger prize is to beat Trump. So maybe focus on all the crazy shit he's doing, and keep repeating it???.

 

[Gzusfrk]

I would ask you to just fucking stop already with this kind of BS already, because seriously, no. No, no, no, no, no.

But you haven't listened to a word of any argument that proves you wrong thus far, so why even bother thinking you'll do so now?

I’ve heard nothing but blathering nonsense, but nothing that proves that my statement is not true.

Name one Democrat policy that lifts people out of poverty.

We should be trying to get people OFF of government assistance and becoming more productive members of society. Name one Democrat policy that does this.

 

[Irvine511]

Name one Democrat policy that lifts people out of poverty.

Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security? i mean, just for starters.

 

[Irvine511]

WASHINGTON — Intelligence officials warned House lawmakers last week that Russia was interfering in the 2020 campaign to try to get President Trump re-elected, five people familiar with the matter said, in a disclosure that angered Mr. Trump, who complained that Democrats would use it against him.

you can either vote for America or vote for Russia in 2020.

 

[Gzusfrk]

Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security? i mean, just for starters.

What? Seriously?? Those LIFT people out of poverty? Please understand what the definition of someone in poverty is.

If these these lifted people out of poverty, then someone who receives these benefits would NOT be poor.

Strike one, two, three

 

[womanfish]

I’ve heard nothing but blathering nonsense, but nothing that proves that my statement is not true.

Name one Democrat policy that lifts people out of poverty.

We should be trying to get people OFF of government assistance and becoming more productive members of society. Name one Democrat policy that does this.

Love how you try to frame that question two different ways. LOL.

Democratic policy that has lifted people out of poverty... hmmmm....

The GI Bill

The Peace Corps

Americorps

Earned Income Tax Credit

Family & Medical Leave Act

Americans With Disabilities Act

Unemployment Insurance

Medicare/Medicaid

SNAP

Children's health program

Social Security

Supplemental Security Income

Workers Comp

School food assistance

Housing subsidies

The Department of Housing and Urban Development

Labor Laws

The Tennessee Valley Project

The Civilian Conservation Corps

The Securites and Exchange Commission

Universal Public Education

Morrill Land Grant Act

Public Universities

Bank Deposit Insurance (FDIC)

Sure there are more, but that's a start.

 

[womanfish]

What? Seriously?? Those LIFT people out of poverty? Please understand what the definition of someone in poverty is.

If these these lifted people out of poverty, then someone who receives these benefits would NOT be poor.

Strike one, two, three

28 more million people would be living in poverty if not for JUST Social Security you fuck head.

You're seriously mentally deficient.

 

[nbelcik]

What? Seriously?? Those LIFT people out of poverty? Please understand what the definition of someone in poverty is.



If these these lifted people out of poverty, then someone who receives these benefits would NOT be poor.



Strike one, two, three

https://www.vox.com/2015/10/27/9618332/meyer-snap-housing-underreporting

“According to standard census numbers, the poverty rate in New York from 2008 to 2011 was 13.6 percent, before taking these programs into account. The programs the study examines — food stamps (a.k.a. SNAP), welfare (a.k.a. TANF), state-level general assistance programs, and housing aid — dropped that down to 10.8 percent. But the study suggests the real number was even lower: a mere 8.3 percent. If that's true, then the estimated poverty-fighting power of these programs has been dramatically understated for years.”

 

[BEAL]

No, you don't understand. These social programs only enable people to stay poor.

Pull up your God Damn Bootstraps and get to work!!! j

Every poor person is poor because of their own damn laziness. Every rich person is rich because HE worked for it (and women because they slept with a rich guy).

So tired of these talking points from the conservatives. Poor people to the Right is a character flaw. Wealth, well that's just the way Jesus promoted as the Way, the Truth in the bible.

 

[nbelcik]

What? Seriously?? Those LIFT people out of poverty? Please understand what the definition of someone in poverty is.



If these these lifted people out of poverty, then someone who receives these benefits would NOT be poor.



Strike one, two, three

Also how are you going to lift people out of poverty without higher minimum wages? Low wages are the main reason why people are in poverty in the first place. There is no conservative solution to low wages.

 

[Irvine511]

What? Seriously?? Those LIFT people out of poverty? Please understand what the definition of someone in poverty is.



If these these lifted people out of poverty, then someone who receives these benefits would NOT be poor.



Strike one, two, three

They keep people out of poverty?

Do you have any concept what it was like to be poor and old before 1965?

 

[Gzusfrk]

Love how you try to frame that question two different ways. LOL.

Democratic policy that has lifted people out of poverty... hmmmm....

The GI Bill

The Peace Corps

Americorps

Earned Income Tax Credit

Family & Medical Leave Act

Americans With Disabilities Act

Unemployment Insurance

Medicare/Medicaid

SNAP

Children's health program

Social Security

Supplemental Security Income

Workers Comp

School food assistance

Housing subsidies

The Department of Housing and Urban Development

Labor Laws

The Tennessee Valley Project

The Civilian Conservation Corps

The Securites and Exchange Commission

Universal Public Education

Morrill Land Grant Act

Public Universities

Bank Deposit Insurance (FDIC)

Sure there are more, but that's a start.

Frame it in two different ways?? This is just as tone deaf as Irvine’s response.

NONE of these things lift anyone out of poverty. No PROGRAM can do that. I have been poor, I have been working poor, I have been on government assistance. Half of these things aren’t even dealing with the topic, FDIC, really? Read the question again before Googling “Democrat Policies that lifted people out of poverty “.

The Democratic plan for government assistance is to get votes. If you can make more money being unemployed than working (which is what Obama’s plan was huge on, and is still that way to a certain degree), then many will choose not to work . If you incentivize having children out of wedlock, and make single moms get a raise with each child they have, and , oh, but if they’re married or Dad lives at home, no money for you, that’s NOT lifting people out of poverty, but exacerbating it. Why do you think states who’ve recently adopted stricter welfare guidelines have seen more people get off of food stamps and go to work? Because it works.

Think all you want that the government assistance is designed to do anything but keep people poor( which it has done for over 50 years—see all Democrat run cities that I had mentioned a few months ago), then you’re just too brainwashed to look at reality.

There is NOT a finite amount of wealth in the world. Wealth can be created, that’s what free market capitalism does. And you cannot multiply wealth by dividing it , makes no sense. So seizing money from “rich “ people and giving it to poor people, does NOT create a healthy economy.

Incentivize people to work hard, get off of government assistance and live their dreams. Nothing is guaranteed, but the opportunity, which yes, EVERYONE ALREADY HAS. Get rid of the Democrats victim mentality that they like to push on people who are not oppressed by anyone

 

[anitram]

I’m pretty sure that most of the posters here are subsidizing the red state freeloaders.

 

[Irvine511]

You’re like a bot spitting out right wing talk radio platitudes.

 

[Bluer White]

https://www.mediaite.com/news/break...t-watched-in-history-with-20-million-viewers/

NBC News and MSNBC set records on Wednesday night by drawing a massive 19.6 million viewers with their Democratic Debate in Las Vegas, Nevada.

......According to Nielsen data, the debate from NBC, MSNBC and The Nevada Independent was the most watched yet, scoring top ratings in the 25-54 demographic and 13.5 million livestream viewers to boot.

The debate scored about 5.3 million in the 25-54 bracket, 4.26 million in the 18-49, and they averaged 19.66 million total viewers across both channels.

The first Democratic debate, hosted by NBC in Miami in June, drew some 18 million viewers.

 

[womanfish]

Frame it in two different ways?? This is just as tone deaf as Irvine’s response.

NONE of these things lift anyone out of poverty. No PROGRAM can do that. I have been poor, I have been working poor, I have been on government assistance. Half of these things aren’t even dealing with the topic, FDIC, really? Read the question again before Googling “Democrat Policies that lifted people out of poverty “.

The Democratic plan for government assistance is to get votes. If you can make more money being unemployed than working (which is what Obama’s plan was huge on, and is still that way to a certain degree), then many will choose not to work . If you incentivize having children out of wedlock, and make single moms get a raise with each child they have, and , oh, but if they’re married or Dad lives at home, no money for you, that’s NOT lifting people out of poverty, but exacerbating it. Why do you think states who’ve recently adopted stricter welfare guidelines have seen more people get off of food stamps and go to work? Because it works.

Think all you want that the government assistance is designed to do anything but keep people poor( which it has done for over 50 years—see all Democrat run cities that I had mentioned a few months ago), then you’re just too brainwashed to look at reality.

There is NOT a finite amount of wealth in the world. Wealth can be created, that’s what free market capitalism does. And you cannot multiply wealth by dividing it , makes no sense. So seizing money from “rich “ people and giving it to poor people, does NOT create a healthy economy.

Incentivize people to work hard, get off of government assistance and live their dreams. Nothing is guaranteed, but the opportunity, which yes, EVERYONE ALREADY HAS. Get rid of the Democrats victim mentality that they like to push on people who are not oppressed by anyone

Sweet Jesus you’re stupid. Almost every single one of these programs is designed to reduce poverty and keep people who are able, working. Again, you couldn’t be more drastically wrong.

The GI Bill - gives skills and education to get jobs and keep people from being in poverty or needing other assistance

The Peace Corps - gives skills and education to get jobs and keep people from being in poverty or needing other assistance

Americorps - gives skills and education to get jobs and keep people from being in poverty or needing other assistance

Earned Income Tax Credit - boosts work participation and prevents poverty.

Americans With Disabilities Act - Allows those with disabilities that can work to work. The ones who can’t, you know it keeps them from starving to death and stuff like that.

Unemployment Insurance - keeps people from going into poverty as they find work again.

Medicare/Medicaid Allows those working to not die. And other luxuries.

SNAP - feeds tens of millions of working poor

Children's health program - affordable health care for KIDS.

Social Security - keeping elderly from dying in the streets since 1935

Workers Comp - keeps people injured on the job from going into poverty until they are able to work again.

School food assistance - helping feed those lazy ass kids.

Housing subsidies - actually helping to get people into homes and have a chance at building wealth. My good friend was one of them. Now no longer on assistance. Shocking!

The Tennessee Valley Project - gives skills and education to get jobs and keep people from being in poverty or needing other assistance

The Civilian Conservation Corps - gives skills and education to get jobs and keep people from being in poverty or needing other assistance

Universal Public Education You know, getting an education so you don’t end up in poverty.

Public Universities - again, prevents poverty

 

[womanfish]

Frame it in two different ways?? This is just as tone deaf as Irvine’s response.

NONE of these things lift anyone out of poverty. No PROGRAM can do that. I have been poor, I have been working poor, I have been on government assistance. Half of these things aren’t even dealing with the topic, FDIC, really? Read the question again before Googling “Democrat Policies that lifted people out of poverty “.

The Democratic plan for government assistance is to get votes. If you can make more money being unemployed than working (which is what Obama’s plan was huge on, and is still that way to a certain degree), then many will choose not to work . If you incentivize having children out of wedlock, and make single moms get a raise with each child they have, and , oh, but if they’re married or Dad lives at home, no money for you, that’s NOT lifting people out of poverty, but exacerbating it. Why do you think states who’ve recently adopted stricter welfare guidelines have seen more people get off of food stamps and go to work? Because it works.

Think all you want that the government assistance is designed to do anything but keep people poor( which it has done for over 50 years—see all Democrat run cities that I had mentioned a few months ago), then you’re just too brainwashed to look at reality.

There is NOT a finite amount of wealth in the world. Wealth can be created, that’s what free market capitalism does. And you cannot multiply wealth by dividing it , makes no sense. So seizing money from “rich “ people and giving it to poor people, does NOT create a healthy economy.

Incentivize people to work hard, get off of government assistance and live their dreams. Nothing is guaranteed, but the opportunity, which yes, EVERYONE ALREADY HAS. Get rid of the Democrats victim mentality that they like to push on people who are not oppressed by anyone

And hilarious that you were on government assistance and now you’re not. You just proved my point Einstein. The vast majority of these programs are to assist people who find themselves temporarily out of, or unable to work. Just like it did for you. So good enough for you, but not for others? Wow.

 

[nbelcik]

Frame it in two different ways?? This is just as tone deaf as Irvine’s response.



NONE of these things lift anyone out of poverty. No PROGRAM can do that. I have been poor, I have been working poor, I have been on government assistance. Half of these things aren’t even dealing with the topic, FDIC, really? Read the question again before Googling “Democrat Policies that lifted people out of poverty “.



The Democratic plan for government assistance is to get votes. If you can make more money being unemployed than working (which is what Obama’s plan was huge on, and is still that way to a certain degree), then many will choose not to work . If you incentivize having children out of wedlock, and make single moms get a raise with each child they have, and , oh, but if they’re married or Dad lives at home, no money for you, that’s NOT lifting people out of poverty, but exacerbating it. Why do you think states who’ve recently adopted stricter welfare guidelines have seen more people get off of food stamps and go to work? Because it works.



Think all you want that the government assistance is designed to do anything but keep people poor( which it has done for over 50 years—see all Democrat run cities that I had mentioned a few months ago), then you’re just too brainwashed to look at reality.



There is NOT a finite amount of wealth in the world. Wealth can be created, that’s what free market capitalism does. And you cannot multiply wealth by dividing it , makes no sense. So seizing money from “rich “ people and giving it to poor people, does NOT create a healthy economy.



Incentivize people to work hard, get off of government assistance and live their dreams. Nothing is guaranteed, but the opportunity, which yes, EVERYONE ALREADY HAS. Get rid of the Democrats victim mentality that they like to push on people who are not oppressed by anyone

We know what happens when social programs get cut: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/us/food-stamps-work-west-virginia.html Spoiler alert: people don’t get out of poverty, you just make the poor more miserable and increase the burden on charitable organizations beyond what they can provide.

How do you except someone making $20,000 a year with a chronic health condition, no health insurance because they work in a low-wage job, and $50,000 in medical bills to lift themselves up by their bootstraps without any assistance? I’m sure people here can come up with dozens more examples of situations like this.

Poor people have less opportunity because of their poverty. It’s a fact. And because the US doesn’t have a strong safety net, it means that upward mobility is less than in Europe. Your conservative policies only serve to erase opportunity for the poor and ensure that only rich people who can afford healthcare, education, and other basic life necessities are the only ones who have opportunity. You’re saying that the poor have to work twice as hard as people born rich just to get to the same place.

And by opposing minimum wage increases, you’re essentially saying that you believe the job is necessary for society and should be done, just that the person doing the job deserves to live in poverty.