US Politics XIX: Just an Echo Chamber Living In Your Heads

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Not all of them, but at least as many as will go to Bernie, if not more.

Warren's bread & butter supporters were always comprised of the professional class, the lawyer/doctor/accountant sorts who are probably upper middle class but have a strong social justice streak. In their late 30s, 40s mostly. These are the sorts of people who themselves may be policy wonks and/or appreciate her intellect and professorial ability to break down complicated ideas, but they're inherently not the sort who would directly benefit by Bernie's far more left/progressive initiatives. They don't need free college education (for themselves or their kids), they by and large don't care about marijuana legalization one way or another and the notion that union membership should be double may very well totally go counter to their professional experience/success.

Who do they go to if not Bernie? Klobuchar to some extent, but if/when she flames out due to no money and her inability to draw in POCs (though I recognize that could change), the most natural choice is Bloomberg - his policies are actually more progressive than Klobuchar's, he has that fighting spirit that Warren brought to the race, and most of all, if Americans are willing to be bought, then he's your guy.

Most of my friends fall into this category and were Warren supporters. Maybe one would vote for Bernie. He's just not really a natural fit for a lot of her constituency.

Will he pick up some of her supporters? Yes, but you tell me where half of her support has gone to? Not to him...


DEAR GOD! YES! This is precisely it. You pretty much described me to a T! And actually enlightened me a bit on why I support the people I do.
Other friends of mine as well, that have been favorable to Warren, have all expressed some excitement, intrigue or at least logical end goals of beating Trump - with Bloomberg.

I am probably the last guy I thought would be for him. I liked Biden and Warren. Those were my top two. Biden just got shakier and shakier. So I was hoping Warren would surge and keep rising. It looks like that hope has ended.
So where else do I go? Well you called it again. Amy crossed my mind. But I don't see her making it much longer.
So Bloomberg makes sense to me. I like his stance and work on environment, guns and voting rights. Every other candidate has some pretty obvious weakness or weaknesses in the general. And Bloomberg has the least IMO, and the most strengths.

So because i don't want to live in a burning heap of country by 2024, i like Mike. That is quite an endorsement!
 
i can't understand why, when the guy you want to get rid of is a racist sexual predator mobster who (with good reason) is convinced that he is literally above the law, people are super-enthusiastic about the other option being a literal oligarch purchasing the nomination for himself.

let's replace caesar with crassus. cause that'll help the average roman. :up:
 
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i can't understand why, when the guy you want to get rid of is a racist sexual predator mobster who (with good reason) is convinced that he is literally above the law, people are super-enthusiastic about the other option being a literal oligarch purchasing the nomination for himself.

let's replace caesar with crassus. cause that'll help the average roman. :up:

I want to help the average roman. I am an average roman. But the most pressing task is getting rid of the current occupant of the White House. And if I feel like Bloomberg has the best chance of making that happen, then I can't let the distastefulness of him buying an election - and it is distasteful - stop me from voting for him.

Now, I'm not yet convinced that he has the best chance, but he's been rising for me lately.

Warren was my first choice for a long time, but it really seems like she's done.

Biden has too often seemed like a confused old man, and I say that as someone who was a big fan of his when he was VP. But he's not the same guy anymore.

Pete is very likable and probably the best-spoken of all the candidates, but he seems to be too friendly towards corporate interests for my tastes - I really can't get over the fact that Zuckerberg was "informally" advising his campaign on hires when Facebook is totally in the tank for Trump. That turned me off him.

I can't get excited about Amy, and I fear neither will a lot of other people.

So now the two names that are retaining my interest are Bernie and Bloomberg. Bernie because I share his desire to make big changes, and Bloomberg, because of all the centrists running I think he'd do the best in a debate with Trump, and because he can be a centrist without being beholden to corporate interests due to being filthy rich.

I mean, unless Warren makes a big comeback, Bernie is the sole progressive in the race. So if it's not him, it's going to be a centrist, and if it's going to be a centrist, might as well be the one that has the best chance to win in November. And if that means Bloomberg, then I have to swallow the pill of him buying an election.

So right now, assuming Warren is done, it's 1. Bernie and 2. Bloomberg for me.
 
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The big fear, though, is if Bloombie shows up at a debate and come off like total Junior Varsity. These people have been at their campaign for a while, how is he going to be able to measure up in a debate?

Shades of Wesley Clark.

But we’ll see.
 
https://twitter.com/mikebloomberg/status/1227951551068721154?s=21

Guess a few notes

The fact this is what our politics has come to is very sad. Unfortunately it’s probably what it’ll take to beat Trump. Clinton tried with facts and logic but she got beat by a archaic system, Russian influence, and morons.

I don’t think it’s really a good thing that Bloomberg knows the same people as Trump considering Trumps people are all fucking mobsters. I get the point he is making but a part of me wonders if Bloomberg would be a different kind of Dictator than Trump. Not as bad but still doesn’t fix our country’s problems.

The only way forward is to get $$$ out of politics and we may end up having a guy reach the top by purchasing the election
 
I have to say, I don't really see this 'buying the election' issue. Or rather, why it is only Bloomberg who is purchasing it. As stated, there is much money needed in American presidential elections. And every candidate is raising the big bucks, each in their own way. So each of them is trying to 'purchase the election', only the sources of money differ. Bloomberg just happens to have enough of his own that he doesn't have to beg others to donate, make promises to them so he can take their money.

And still, money isn't everything. I read that Steyer spent about $1900 for each vote he got in the NH primary. Or put another way, his $19 million investment resulted in about 10,000 votes and 0 delegates. Thus, more is still needed than just money.
 



This is a wonderfully direct and clear tweet, however. It’s written at a level that he can understand, and it will hit him in a way that will drive his tiny mind into fits of rage.

Bloomberg will get into the gutter with this trash monster. In a way it’s depressing, but we may have to become a monster to defeat the monster.

Once he’s elected, Bloomberg should pledge to pass an amendment to overturn Citizens United. Then he’d an American hero who slayed the orange porn dragon, and then he can step aside in 2024.

#wereIkingforaday
 
https://twitter.com/mikebloomberg/status/1227951551068721154?s=21

Guess a few notes

The fact this is what our politics has come to is very sad. Unfortunately it’s probably what it’ll take to beat Trump. Clinton tried with facts and logic but she got beat by a archaic system, Russian influence, and morons.

I don’t think it’s really a good thing that Bloomberg knows the same people as Trump considering Trumps people are all fucking mobsters. I get the point he is making but a part of me wonders if Bloomberg would be a different kind of Dictator than Trump. Not as bad but still doesn’t fix our country’s problems.

The only way forward is to get $$$ out of politics and we may end up having a guy reach the top by purchasing the election
Mike Bloomberg may be many things good and bad, but he is not mobbed up like Trump.
 
I have to say, I don't really see this 'buying the election' issue. Or rather, why it is only Bloomberg who is purchasing it. As stated, there is much money needed in American presidential elections. And every candidate is raising the big bucks, each in their own way. So each of them is trying to 'purchase the election', only the sources of money differ. Bloomberg just happens to have enough of his own that he doesn't have to beg others to donate, make promises to them so he can take their money.

And still, money isn't everything. I read that Steyer spent about $1900 for each vote he got in the NH primary. Or put another way, his $19 million investment resulted in about 10,000 votes and 0 delegates. Thus, more is still needed than just money.
Literally everyone buys the presidency. Bernie will have to buy the presidency.

Would I prefer the money came from all small donations vs one vast fortune? Sure, but by the same measure, I'd prefer a self finances campaign to one paid for by corporate interests.

But either way - it's the game. Until the game is changed, it is what it is. If you want to change the game, you need to not win the entirety of Congress and a shit ton of local and state of elections.

A self finances presidential campaign frees up the money needed to make this possible.
 
The big fear, though, is if Bloombie shows up at a debate and come off like total Junior Varsity. These people have been at their campaign for a while, how is he going to be able to measure up in a debate?

Shades of Wesley Clark.

But we’ll see.
I have zero fear that he won't be prepared and ready to discuss any and all issues.

I would only fear that he'll come off as too analytical, emotionless and not connect on a personal level. He's a very cerebral person.


But either way - he should be on the stage at that next debate. Let's stop the games, let him on, and let the people decide if this is the direction they want to go in.
 
Yes, all elections are bought, particularly with Citizens United.

The difference that most people will see with respect to Bloomberg is that he hasn't had to hustle to get the $ to allow him to run - he hasn't had to be campaigning for a year or more like the others, he hasn't had to attend a hundred dinners or fundraisers or take a million selfies or distribute staff on a tight budget or show up to what, 10 debates already? So yes it's different than the others in a tangible way.

I do think that he's a bit of a wildcard in the debate - could go either way. You'd think someone of his stature wouldn't want to embarrass himself so I would be really surprised if he came unprepared. As to how charismatic he'll be, I have no idea. The other thing to consider is the strategy of the remaining candidates. Amy Klobuchar and Pete both have to go for each others' necks first and I think they've both shown to be capable of it. I think Biden and Warren will skate by with minimal criticism from anyone, and Bernie has to attack the whole idea of centrism on his own.
 
Poor guy, can't even enjoy his healthy berder without being bullied:sad:

Donald Trump made a rare retail campaign stop in Manchester, New Hampshire after a Monday rally, surprising patrons at the famous Red Arrow Diner. The Republican presidential candidate got some grub, but also something unexpected -- an earful from one patron who was clearly not a fan.

“Enjoy your burger, racist!”a young woman shouted from the back of the restaurant before walking out.

Outside, the heckler identified herself to ABC News as Jane, but declined to give her last name. She said she was visiting the state from South Carolina, and was unaware Trump would make an appearance as she enjoyed lunch.

“I’m really struck by his racism and Islamophobia,” Jane said. “I wanted to make sure people remembered that he is racist, and that he’s using it to rally voters.”

Otherwise, Trump enjoyed his meal at the local New Hampshire institution.

“This is great food,’’ he said, per the Wall Street Journal. “I love this kind of food.’’

Trump reportedly ordered the “Newton Burger,’’ a burger topped with fried mac and cheese and cheese sauce between two grilled cheese sandwiches instead of buns, with a side of fries.

RA06$medium.jpg
 
Immediately after eating the Newton Burger, Trump made an (un)expected stop at Walter Reed Hospital.

Media didn't bother to ask why, and won't bother questioning it going forward....
 



so, i'll bite. a little bit.

i get that it's a tweet and a clever turn of phrase, what is it about Pete's policies that makes anyone think he's a Republican, or Republican-lite? is it because he's a bit to the right of Bernie? he seems solidly center-left in a party that is more left now than it was 8 or 12 years ago.

could it be his straight-laced demeanor and personal life? this article on this subject is making the rounds on my feed today:

y now, you may have heard that some queer people think that Pete Buttigieg, the former mayor of South Bend, Indiana, and a current contender for the Democratic Presidential nomination, is not gay enough. Unless you are immersed in this conversation with other queer people, you may have thought, “That’s ridiculous.” I am here to explain.

The notion that some of us think Buttigieg is not gay enough has an identifiable relationship to the facts, which are that, for the purposes of this discussion, people who grew up queer in this country fall into two distinct categories of experience. One is the experience of never fitting in, being bullied by classmates for the way you walk, the way you look in clothes, the way you hit or fail to hit—all the things that set you apart before you have language to describe them. The novelist and essayist Alexander Chee has written, “In the second grade, the boys would stop me in the hall to tell me I walked like a girl, my hips switching.” Millions of people have had a version of that experience. And then there is the other experience, the life of blending in, only to surprise your classmates—or, more likely, former classmates who follow you on social media—with the revelation that you are gay. I am not arguing that one category of experience is worse or more difficult or painful than the other. There are people who revel in their specialness from an early age, and there are people who fit in but feel tormented by their deep secret. I am saying only that these two kinds of experience are very different. Though as grownups we have more control over our appearance and performance, the gap in experience follows us into adulthood. Recently, a friend mentioned that, after thirty years of teaching, she had mentioned her wife in class for the first time, surprising her students with the revelation that she was gay—and I found myself momentarily marvelling at having the option to come out to one’s students or not.

As part of his campaign, and in developing his political persona, Buttigieg has repeatedly told a compelling story about his coming out. His is the story of someone who blended in and was therefore able—or, one might say, forced to—choose the circumstances and timing of his coming out. He chose to wait a long time: until after he graduated from college, after he had served in the military, after he had been elected mayor. He has made it clear that he feared that, if he had come out sooner, his political career might have suffered.

But he didn’t just wait until he was established in his political career. He also waited until after attitudes toward homosexuality had changed and same-sex marriage had become legal in more than half the states and was recognized by the federal government—all thanks to the courage and work of people who came out before Buttigieg did. Then, in 2015, he had the chutzpah to write an op-ed titled “Why Coming Out Matters,” in which he praised himself for “putting something this personal on the pages of a newspaper.” Many a reader might have wondered, as I did when my friend mentioned her relationship with her students, what it must be like to have the option of not being exposed.

Again, I am not saying that L.G.B.T. people who don’t pass are somehow morally superior to L.G.B.T. people who do. But these two distinct experiences are in some ways correlated with two divergent tracks in L.G.B.T. politics. One kind of queer politics is rooted in ideas of liberation, revolutionary change, and solidarity. The vision of this politics is a society that is radically changed by many kinds of people fighting many kinds of injustice, a society in which economic, social, political, and sexual relationships have been transformed. The roots of this politics are acknowledged in an open letter authored by a group called Queers Against Pete. (The letter was signed, according to the organizers, by more than two thousand people.) They wrote, “We are clear that LGBTQIA people are directly and disproportionately impacted by police violence, incarceration, unaffordable healthcare, homelessness, deportation, and economic inequality among other things.” The strategy of this brand of politics is to work across differences to bring about change.

The other, more mainstream, and often more visible kind of L.G.B.T. politics aims to erase difference. Its message to straight people is “We are just like you, and all we want is the right to have what you have: marriage, children, a house with a picket fence, and the right to serve in the military.” The vision of this politics is a society in all respects indistinguishable from the one in which we live now, except queer people have successfully and permanently blended in. To be sure, all kinds of queer people have been involved in both kinds of queer politics. But the politics of being “just like you” leaves out the people who cannot or do not want to be just like conventional straight people, whether in appearance or in the way we construct our lives and families.

Buttigieg embodies the second kind of gay experience and the second kind of gay politics. In a beautiful essay published in the Los Angeles Review of Books, Greta LaFleur, a professor of American studies at Yale, analyzed a photograph of Buttigieg and his husband, Chasten, that appeared on the cover of Time magazine in May of last year. “This photo is about a lot of things,” LaFleur wrote. “But one of its defining features is its heterosexuality. It’s offering us the promise that our first gay first family might actually be a straight one.” Time had captioned the photo “First Family.” How can a family that consists of two men be heterosexual? LaFleur’s use of the term is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but she explains that the “unmistakable heraldry of ‘FIRST FAMILY,’ alongside the rest of the photograph—the tulips; the Chinos; the notably charming but insistently generic porch; the awkwardly minimal touching that invokes the most uncomfortable, unfamiliar, culturally-heterosexual embrace any of us have ever received—offers a vision of heterosexuality without straight people.” And without women.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-...7-Qg0KjCxcGUXa_xs-maNA6b-3Js_fRjUC_IVxVb78ydc

i normally love Masha Gessen, but this seems unfair to me. and i found LaFleur's critique to be kind of nasty. "not gay enough" isn't quite the criticism, it's that he isn't specifically queer, which now has a different meaning than either the early-00's term mean to be a catch-all for all sexual minorities, or as a slur. it drives some gay people nuts to see the embodiment of the gay-boy trope the best little boy in the world. these tend to be my leftier, queerer, anti-establishment friends who life what could genuinely be called alternative lifestyles, lifestyles that are not exclusive to gayness but certainly centered around and facilitated by it.

but it also doesn't seem to occur to people that an openly gay person -- especially an openly gay man -- running for president is going to have to be perfect, and not scary. remember the Obamas? their flawless family? their model marriage? their scandal-free administration? Pete will have to embody that ideal of perfect because he is a gay man -- i think gay women tend to get a pass, because they tend to come off as sexless, whether fair or not -- and has to present as such. his personal demeanor must be conservative, in the way that Obama must always keep his cool.

that said, it does seem quite likely to me that Pete and Chasten are super-boring. which is fine! many gay people are. they probably don't have tattoos, go to Fire Island, or Sitges, or P-town, or clubbing in Berlin. you won't catch them on a VACAYA cruise. they probably are monogamous. no drugs. perhaps they can count their number of sexual partners on one hand. i'm sure they'll have kids. they want to be suburban and vanilla and game nights with wine and DIY on Sundays. but to view that as somehow evidence of a betrayal of gayness, or a reason for the liberationist queer-identified to view him as insufficient, seems kind of nasty to me. he's in a box because he's a gay man with literally the word "Butt" in his last name, but he's also probably quite comfortable within that box. and it drives revolutionaries crazy, but in a way that's personal and not policy-drive. from what i can see.

not that you, Dave C, are saying any of that. just using the tweet as a jumping off point.
 
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“This is great food,’’ he said, per the Wall Street Journal. “I love this kind of food.’’

Trump reportedly ordered the “Newton Burger,’’ a burger topped with fried mac and cheese and cheese sauce between two grilled cheese sandwiches instead of buns, with a side of fries.

View attachment 12404

How the F does somebody, even with as big a mouth as Dear Leader, eat such a thing?
 
Trump reportedly ordered the “Newton Burger,’’ a burger topped with fried mac and cheese and cheese sauce between two grilled cheese sandwiches instead of buns, with a side of fries.

View attachment 12404

Why the fuck would somebody think that would make for a good meal to make or eat? Ew. That's just stupid.

(The mention of grilled cheese sandwiches does make me hungry for one now, though. And at least the fries look good.)

Kudos to that woman calling him out for what he is. And Irvine, I liked your comments about Buttigieg. It doesn't surprise me that kind of discussion would be going on in regards to him, but I tend to agree with your take on it.
 
Ooh, Barr getting tough on Trump. Show of hands, who believes that Trump has never asked him to do anything in a criminal case? Total bs that he's not influenced by Trump.

In an exclusive interview, Attorney General Bill Barr told ABC News on Thursday that President Donald Trump "has never asked me to do anything in a criminal case” but should stop tweeting about the Justice Department because his tweets “make it impossible for me to do my job.”

Barr’s comments are a rare break with a president who the attorney general has aligned himself with and fiercely defended. But it also puts Barr in line with many of Trump’s supporters on Capitol Hill who say they support the president but wish he’d cut back on his tweets.


“I think it’s time to stop the tweeting about Department of Justice criminal cases,” Barr told ABC News Chief Justice Correspondent Pierre Thomas.

When asked if he was prepared for the consequences of criticizing the president – his boss – Barr said “of course” because his job is to run the Justice Department and make decisions on “what I think is the right thing to do".

“I’m not going to be bullied or influenced by anybody ... whether it’s Congress, a newspaper editorial board, or the president,” Barr said. “I’m gonna do what I think is right. And you know … I cannot do my job here at the department with a constant background commentary that undercuts me.”
 
In an exclusive interview, Attorney General Bill Barr told ABC News on Thursday that President Donald Trump "has never asked me to do anything in a criminal case” but should stop tweeting about the Justice Department because his tweets “make it impossible for me to do my job.”

Barr’s comments are a rare break with a president who the attorney general has aligned himself with and fiercely defended. But it also puts Barr in line with many of Trump’s supporters on Capitol Hill who say they support the president but wish he’d cut back on his tweets.

Translation: Oh, shit, the media's caught on to our little scheme and the Democrats are demanding I be held accountable, so now I gotta do some damage control.
 
Now Trump is calling Bloomberg "mini Mike". Bloomberg replied on Twitter. Don't mess with a guy from Medford MA orange Donnie.


Mike Bloomberg
@MikeBloomberg
·
10h
.
@realDonaldTrump
- we know many of the same people in NY. Behind your back they laugh at you & call you a carnival barking clown. They know you inherited a fortune & squandered it with stupid deals and incompetence.

I have the record & the resources to defeat you. And I will.
 
In an exclusive interview, Attorney General Bill Barr told ABC News on Thursday that President Donald Trump "has never asked me to do anything in a criminal case” but should stop tweeting about the Justice Department because his tweets “make it impossible for me to do my job.”

Well if it's impossible, the door is thattaway --->

:rolleyes:
 
There is zero chance that I will ever vote for Michael Bloomberg. He would be a horrific president, quite possibly as bad as Trump. He is a racist piece of shit Republican oligarch. His administration would correct more or less none of the ills wrought by Trump, but he would be more competent and would take advantage of the press's love of "reaching across the aisle" when making numerous deals with Republicans.

Even if you delude yourself into believing Bloomberg has any decent stances, there's no chance Bloomberg would beat Trump. Trump could win by just talking about the soda tax at every debate. He wouldn't have to do anything else. Bloomberg doesn't inspire anyone. He would try to campaign on "I'm worth way more than Trump!" and "I'm a smart fella, Trump's not." I would guess Bloomberg wins maybe six states.

Reading the posts in here about Bloomberg's plausibility is making my brain melt. Even in other places where I see people give credit to Warren and Buttigieg, they're all agreeing that Bloomberg is a horrible choice.

When I read someone get excited about Warren, I strongly disagree but I at least understand how they got themselves there. Michael Bloomberg is one of the worst people in America, has no charisma or appeal outside a very specific group of people, agrees with Trump on way more than he disagrees with him, and would get destroyed in the general election. What are we doing here?
 
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