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Old 06-30-2019, 09:10 AM   #781
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I don't think that any of the candidates have explained how private insurance could work in parallel. Most countries have that, including Canada.

All of your healthcare needs are covered under the provincial healthcare plans, with the exception of prescription drugs, ancillary services like physiotherapy, massage therapy, speech pathology, medical devices (crutches, glucose meters, etc), optometry and dentistry.

Low income individuals have subsidized prescription drugs and children in Ontario under 18 have free prescription drugs as well (not sure if it's extended to other provinces). For all those other things, we have private insurance - provided by our employers and we co-pay into it. For my family of 4, I pay something like $50 off my biweekly paycheques. The employers match and you then end up with coverage that varies based on the provider, plan, etc. For example, my dental is 90% covered, and I have $600/year to spend on services like massage therapy, chiro, physio (each service has the $600 annual limit). The private insurance also pays for semi-private accommodations at hospitals and it's cheap to upgrade to private (I believe I paid $35/night). People who are self-employed can opt into their own insurance which is obviously more expensive since they don't have employers matching, so many of them do not and instead pay out of pocket for ancillary services and drugs.

What we don't have is private insurance in the actual healthcare space, competing with public hospitals, clinics, etc.
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Old 06-30-2019, 10:40 AM   #782
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So I’m starting to think that there’ll be a Trump in the White House beyond 2020

But its not Donald, it’s Ivanka
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Old 06-30-2019, 11:34 AM   #783
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The hospital that treated me when I was nearly killed this past fall is closing due to financing issues. This is going to become more and more common in the coming years without a serious change to our healthcare system, I think.

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/20...auma-patients/
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Old 06-30-2019, 03:02 PM   #784
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The hospital that treated me when I was nearly killed this past fall is closing due to financing issues. This is going to become more and more common in the coming years without a serious change to our healthcare system, I think.

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/20...auma-patients/


That Drexel’s? Heard about that one through my med school friend. Wild, and I believe you’re right.

Policing is a public service. Firefighting is a public service. Health should be, too.
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Old 06-30-2019, 03:04 PM   #785
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
I don't think that any of the candidates have explained how private insurance could work in parallel. Most countries have that, including Canada.

All of your healthcare needs are covered under the provincial healthcare plans, with the exception of prescription drugs, ancillary services like physiotherapy, massage therapy, speech pathology, medical devices (crutches, glucose meters, etc), optometry and dentistry.

Low income individuals have subsidized prescription drugs and children in Ontario under 18 have free prescription drugs as well (not sure if it's extended to other provinces). For all those other things, we have private insurance - provided by our employers and we co-pay into it. For my family of 4, I pay something like $50 off my biweekly paycheques. The employers match and you then end up with coverage that varies based on the provider, plan, etc. For example, my dental is 90% covered, and I have $600/year to spend on services like massage therapy, chiro, physio (each service has the $600 annual limit). The private insurance also pays for semi-private accommodations at hospitals and it's cheap to upgrade to private (I believe I paid $35/night). People who are self-employed can opt into their own insurance which is obviously more expensive since they don't have employers matching, so many of them do not and instead pay out of pocket for ancillary services and drugs.

What we don't have is private insurance in the actual healthcare space, competing with public hospitals, clinics, etc.


I can’t speak for Canada (though I can assume)... supplemental private insurance in the UK is a thing. People are free to purchase that. People are free to see private practices.

I think you’re right that most candidates think these things are choices in parallel, when in fact they’re not.
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Old 06-30-2019, 04:44 PM   #786
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All of your healthcare needs are covered under the provincial healthcare plans, with the exception of prescription drugs, ancillary services like physiotherapy, massage therapy, speech pathology, medical devices (crutches, glucose meters, etc), optometry and dentistry.

That seems like a lot of exceptions.
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Old 06-30-2019, 04:53 PM   #787
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US Politics XIV: Vote for Pedro

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That seems like a lot of exceptions.


Almost all of those things cost $10-100 in 99% of cases, and 100% of the time in US insurance cases you will have the very same exception in coverage unless you have some premium mega platinum healthcare that you pay ten gazillion dollars a month for.
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Old 06-30-2019, 05:18 PM   #788
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Even $50 is significant money for most people, especially spread across a family.
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Old 06-30-2019, 06:30 PM   #789
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Even $50 is significant money for most people, especially spread across a family.
No doubt, but how is this any different from the current system? I was 18 in high school and received an $800 MRI due to a concussion . They charged me $42 for motrin at the hospital.

I was 23 when I broke my ankle and got a $1200 x-ray at the ER. I paid $50 for crutches. At NASA injured that very same ankle weeks prior to a less severe extent and was given a $50 x-ray. At NASA two years later I injured the same ankle and was given a free x-ray.

In the UK I felt sick, went to the hospital, and paid the equivalent of $12 for antibiotics after waiting and being prescribed by a doctor. In the UK I felt fatigued and had blood work done and saw a doctor for free. In the UK my friend collapsed at dinner and was taken to the ER at no cost. In Italy, out of place in society and with minimal ability to speak the language, I experienced severe allergies and was able to get a prescription (for allegra, which is admittedly OTC in the US) regardless of who I was or where I was from.

People are afraid of using public services. People avoid using public services, because it puts them in tremendous debt. In my examples, NASA is an isolated public service. Had I went to a hospital, I'd be in hundreds of dollars of debt. Had I went to my primary care physician and used insurance, I'd be damned with a copay of $50-100, and that would not have included anything aside from the exam. Crutches? Buy them your damn self, insurance isn't covering that shit.

Insurance literally does nothing but make money off of you and off the hospital.
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Old 06-30-2019, 07:51 PM   #790
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That seems like a lot of exceptions.


They are but again almost everyone who is employed (exception self-employed or temporary/part time workers) have coverage for all those services through their employer sponsored plans.

There’s never been a real drive to add these either, even by far left parties.
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Old 06-30-2019, 09:50 PM   #791
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That Drexel’s? Heard about that one through my med school friend. Wild, and I believe you’re right.

Policing is a public service. Firefighting is a public service. Health should be, too.
It is, indeed. And part of my problem in getting follow up care, to tie this into the health insurance, is that all the specialists who were working with me were Drexel doctors, and my insurance didn't cover their medical system (my plan was partial to Penn). It took me weeks to find a place where I could get an MRI that was covered.

All the people in Drexel's resident program are going to be out on the street by the way. This happened suddenly enough that they couldn't implement a plan to help people land elsewhere. Some people are going to get royally fucked.
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Old 06-30-2019, 10:53 PM   #792
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No doubt, but how is this any different from the current system? I was 18 in high school and received an $800 MRI due to a concussion . They charged me $42 for motrin at the hospital.

I was 23 when I broke my ankle and got a $1200 x-ray at the ER. I paid $50 for crutches. At NASA injured that very same ankle weeks prior to a less severe extent and was given a $50 x-ray. At NASA two years later I injured the same ankle and was given a free x-ray.

In the UK I felt sick, went to the hospital, and paid the equivalent of $12 for antibiotics after waiting and being prescribed by a doctor. In the UK I felt fatigued and had blood work done and saw a doctor for free. In the UK my friend collapsed at dinner and was taken to the ER at no cost. In Italy, out of place in society and with minimal ability to speak the language, I experienced severe allergies and was able to get a prescription (for allegra, which is admittedly OTC in the US) regardless of who I was or where I was from.

People are afraid of using public services. People avoid using public services, because it puts them in tremendous debt. In my examples, NASA is an isolated public service. Had I went to a hospital, I'd be in hundreds of dollars of debt. Had I went to my primary care physician and used insurance, I'd be damned with a copay of $50-100, and that would not have included anything aside from the exam. Crutches? Buy them your damn self, insurance isn't covering that shit.

Insurance literally does nothing but make money off of you and off the hospital.

I'm not defending the US system at all, and yes I understand the profit motive for hospitals, insurance companies etc. Just stating the Canadian system is a lot less comprehensive than I thought it was.
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Old 06-30-2019, 10:56 PM   #793
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Well, at least for today we could stick it to VP Pence (and others) since it turned into a lovely weather day for nyc's Pride Parade(s)! Probably the biggest in the USA.
I was actually trying get to a westside store at The Village's north end while i was heading from an eastside subway stop. Some how i got the route wrong along the time it was going to end. I didn't have much time but as I got closer i could hear the hoopla get louder and louder, and thought, "hmmmm".

There was no way i was going to make it across Fifth Ave at least without possibly a whole lot of fuss! Luckily i have 3 more days for this special sale, so i decided to sit back and relax and cheer on the marchers (been on the side lines before, and marched as well back in ?80's/90's).
Best part was seeing busfloats from New Orleans and Ireland!
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Old 06-30-2019, 11:13 PM   #794
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I'm not defending the US system at all, and yes I understand the profit motive for hospitals, insurance companies etc. Just stating the Canadian system is a lot less comprehensive than I thought it was.


The Canadian system sounds similar to the UK system, though again I can’t speak to the Canadian system as I know little about it.

The notion of universal healthcare is a simple human rights one though. Someone will be there to stop your home from burning. Someone will be there to respond to the robbery you’re reporting. Someone will be there to help if you’re hurt. There are no asterisks in these situations. The Canadian hospital won’t put you up in the ritz, similar to how an armed police officer won’t sleep next to you at night, similar to how the firefighters are not going to demand for you to give them your social security number and a down payment of $500 after they’ve extinguished the fire.
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Old 06-30-2019, 11:13 PM   #795
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Sorry I’m not ranting at you, just in general.
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Old 06-30-2019, 11:35 PM   #796
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The notion of universal healthcare is a simple human rights one though. Someone will be there to stop your home from burning. Someone will be there to respond to the robbery you’re reporting. Someone will be there to help if you’re hurt. There are no asterisks in these situations.

I agree fully. Profit motive should not enter into provision of life necessities, or at the very least it should be tempered with a viable public option.
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Old 06-30-2019, 11:54 PM   #797
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. The Canadian hospital won’t put you up in the ritz, similar to how an armed police officer won’t sleep next to you at night, s.



I would be willing to pay out-of-pocket for both these services.
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Old 07-01-2019, 09:16 AM   #798
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It appears that the purchase of Hahnemann last year was solely to grab the real estate. They bought it with the intention of shutting the hospital down and filing for bankruptcy, but being able to keep the real estate without including it in the bankruptcy so that they can profit off of it. Essentially, they killed a major hospital to profit off the land and buildings.

https://www.inquirer.com/business/ha...-20190701.html

Capitalism!
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Old 07-01-2019, 09:59 AM   #799
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Gross. And gross that that information can do under the radar of the many livelihoods depending on the hospital.
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Old 07-01-2019, 10:13 AM   #800
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The ER has already closed operations and are not taking trauma patients. I genuinely have no idea where I would have been taken with Hahnemann not being an option.
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