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Old 06-28-2019, 07:50 AM   #761
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American Taliban is what the GOP has become.
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Old 06-28-2019, 08:23 AM   #762
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Reflecting further on the debate - both Bernie and Biden just looked like dinosaurs on stage. It was really obvious and really stark and I don't think it's even necessarily a physical age thing because Elizabeth Warren is just as old as them and absolutely does not give off that same vibe.

Biden was awful, he was honestly like the Jeb Bush of the field. I still cannot believe he was talking about states rights re: bussing which was what, 20-30 YEARS after Brown v Board of Education? It's inexplicable and unforgivable. And the rest of the time he was just kind of....passive and disinterested. I don't for a minute think that he has it in him to take the fight to Trump.

Bernie wasn't that bad in terms of performance but he's just 4 years too late and sounds repetitive and tired. I think this party owes him a great debt of gratitude for pulling them in the right direction but he is not the guy to get the ultimate job done.

Buttigieg is very good, very calm, serene and makes you feel like things are stable and normal. I don't think that he is ready for the presidency but in 5-10 years, absolutely. Very impressive, coherent answers that were absolutely rehearsed but didn't sound fake. I liked him a lot.

Harris ate Biden's lunch and then dragged his ass through the parking lot. I have said from the beginning that she has a killer instinct and this is not a woman who would let Trump stalk her around the stage. What's even better for her is that I was watching the news this morning while getting the kids ready and there was Cory Booker on all the morning shows unwittingly doing her dirty work for her, so to speak as he ripped into Biden and explained, quite clearly how Biden's stances are 50-years-old and unacceptable. So now she has the lower tier candidates doing her bidding on top of it.

It is very early, but coming out of these debates, Warren and Harris are by far the class of the field. A big part of me wants the women to just take the wheel and go. We've had enough of the alternative.

Castro and Buttigieg were both excellent and did themselves a world of good.

The field should be culled in half AT LEAST, immediately if not sooner.
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Old 06-28-2019, 10:32 AM   #763
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I’m so glad Marianne Williamson has given Democrats their very own Ben Carson
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Old 06-28-2019, 10:34 AM   #764
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I’m so glad Marianne Williamson has given Democrats their very own Ben Carson
She is way more entertaining and I hope they keep her around. In a field of 20 at least she provides 2-3 mins of levity an hour. Batshit crazy in a train wreck sort of way.
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Old 06-28-2019, 10:50 AM   #765
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The most galling thing about the state's rights argument is that it wasn't even Biden's position. His was worse. He was fully against busing unless there was specific proof segregation occurred deliberately. He has called it an asinine policy.
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Old 06-28-2019, 10:52 AM   #766
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i didn't watch. i don't see much of a point in paying too much attention at this stage. when we're down to 5 or fewer candidates i'll start to make decisions.

but i do think the idea that Democrats are going to do away with private health insurance is one that gives Trump a wide open lane -- along with "socialism!" and "killin' live born babies!" -- on what is the Democrats best issue and the reason they clobbered the R's in 2018.

win first.
The idea that a large swatch of the electorate likes their insurance and is terrified of losing it is a myth. People fucking hate their insurance. I get how abortion can get people revved up. I don't see it with the insurance issue.
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Old 06-28-2019, 01:12 PM   #767
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Insurance is a scam.
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Old 06-28-2019, 01:25 PM   #768
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https://twitter.com/elivalley/status...451187201?s=21

Can we please get rid of Nancy?
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Old 06-28-2019, 02:08 PM   #769
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Pelosi and Schumer continue to be totally feckless. They'd rather refuse to use anything at their disposal so that they can complain when Republicans actually wield their power and not get called a hypocrite by fucking Chuck Todd or whoever. The combination of spinelessness, disengagement from reality, privilege, and stupidity makes them very representative of the politicians of the Democratic Party, but not representative of the will of the electorate.
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Old 06-28-2019, 02:45 PM   #770
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Insurance is a scam.


I’m not saying it isn’t. I am saying that it’s elimination isn’t good politics right now
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Old 06-28-2019, 03:43 PM   #771
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The idea that a large swatch of the electorate likes their insurance and is terrified of losing it is a myth. People fucking hate their insurance.
Right? When I hear people say that, I assume they mean "My insurance is stable and sufficient, and I'm afraid that anything you give me is going to be worse in comparison."

Change is scary, especially with something as important as health insurance.
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Old 06-28-2019, 03:59 PM   #772
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Reflecting further on the debate - both Bernie and Biden just looked like dinosaurs on stage. It was really obvious and really stark and I don't think it's even necessarily a physical age thing because Elizabeth Warren is just as old as them and absolutely does not give off that same vibe.

Biden was awful, he was honestly like the Jeb Bush of the field. I still cannot believe he was talking about states rights re: bussing which was what, 20-30 YEARS after Brown v Board of Education? It's inexplicable and unforgivable. And the rest of the time he was just kind of....passive and disinterested. I don't for a minute think that he has it in him to take the fight to Trump.

Bernie wasn't that bad in terms of performance but he's just 4 years too late and sounds repetitive and tired. I think this party owes him a great debt of gratitude for pulling them in the right direction but he is not the guy to get the ultimate job done.

Buttigieg is very good, very calm, serene and makes you feel like things are stable and normal. I don't think that he is ready for the presidency but in 5-10 years, absolutely. Very impressive, coherent answers that were absolutely rehearsed but didn't sound fake. I liked him a lot.

Harris ate Biden's lunch and then dragged his ass through the parking lot. I have said from the beginning that she has a killer instinct and this is not a woman who would let Trump stalk her around the stage. What's even better for her is that I was watching the news this morning while getting the kids ready and there was Cory Booker on all the morning shows unwittingly doing her dirty work for her, so to speak as he ripped into Biden and explained, quite clearly how Biden's stances are 50-years-old and unacceptable. So now she has the lower tier candidates doing her bidding on top of it.

It is very early, but coming out of these debates, Warren and Harris are by far the class of the field. A big part of me wants the women to just take the wheel and go. We've had enough of the alternative.

Castro and Buttigieg were both excellent and did themselves a world of good.

The field should be culled in half AT LEAST, immediately if not sooner.
Nice analysis. I agree with pretty much all of this. We desperately need some new blood, and I like that we've got people like Harris, Buttigieg, and Castro bringing that to these debates. And Warren's established in a way that you know she clearly knows her stuff, and she's got the kind of experience necessary to really fight on these issues.

I loved seeing the passion from all four of them when they were speaking, I like that they weren't intimidated during the debates, I think they were all generally the best at trying to lay out their positions and plans, and I think they can really draw crowds and voters that we need. I really hope we do get to see any one of them win the nomination. Watching them take on Trump would be exciting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
I’m so glad Marianne Williamson has given Democrats their very own Ben Carson


Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
She is way more entertaining and I hope they keep her around. In a field of 20 at least she provides 2-3 mins of levity an hour. Batshit crazy in a train wreck sort of way.
You say that, but people had the same attitude about Trump when he first came into the field, and, well...
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Old 06-28-2019, 05:52 PM   #773
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I also hope Mr. Yang takes it one daring step further with his tie-less self.
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Old 06-28-2019, 05:55 PM   #774
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I’m not saying it isn’t. I am saying that it’s elimination isn’t good politics right now


I know what you’re saying and I just don’t see it that way. I agree that there’s the socialism stigma that doesn’t go over well, but I do think unlike education, this applies to everyone, and everyone at the end of the day can be convinced that even the mighty capitalist sword shan’t be used on their health.
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Old 06-28-2019, 06:48 PM   #775
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Saying you’re going to give immigrants who came here “illegally” the same rights as citizens is going to be eaten up by the GOP

Not saying that I’m against it. I just think the Dems playing into what can be drawn up as identity politics will cost them.
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Old 06-28-2019, 06:59 PM   #776
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I support basic human rights for people who will otherwise be deported.

I also support basic human rights for people who are illegally here and won’t be deported.

For the record you don’t need to be a resident in other countries that offer universal healthcare.
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Old 06-28-2019, 08:16 PM   #777
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I support basic human rights for people who will otherwise be deported.

I also support basic human rights for people who are illegally here and won’t be deported.

For the record you don’t need to be a resident in other countries that offer universal healthcare.
All of this . At this point it doesn't matter what they say, the GOP's going to try and make them out to be scary people who want to give stuff to those who "don't deserve it" anyway. Might as well just acknowledge that yes, they want to help and take care of all kinds of people and all that good stuff.

Plus, given the horror over what's happening at the border right now, having the Democrats present themselves as the party of compassion and humanity might actually help them in some ways, too.
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Old 06-29-2019, 08:46 AM   #778
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I support basic human rights for people who will otherwise be deported.

I also support basic human rights for people who are illegally here and won’t be deported.

For the record you don’t need to be a resident in other countries that offer universal healthcare.


I agree with this and understand as i had to use medical services in Italy once.

What I’m saying is that the GOP and their base know how to create boogeymen or make them stronger. In this case Dems want to take your healthcare away or ruin it (Medicare for all) and give it to immigrants

Facts don’t matter anymore and with Russia/China/etc running interference over social media it can be enough to scare independents to stomach Trump for 2020
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Old 06-29-2019, 10:08 PM   #779
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The thing is that the Republicans will say this no matter what the Democrats do. The instinct has always been to jump to the center to duck under the right's attacks and make them toothless, and it never works. They just say the same things and rev people up anyway. All it serves to do is make the Democrats' proposals and positions themselves toothless.

Not to say you need to go to the most extreme left position on every single issue. But you do need to state clearly that private insurance sucks, we're going to kill it, and we're going to replace it with something better and fairer, which will benefit the people for the obvious reasons.
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Old 06-29-2019, 11:38 PM   #780
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The idea that a large swatch of the electorate likes their insurance and is terrified of losing it is a myth. People fucking hate their insurance. I get how abortion can get people revved up. I don't see it with the insurance issue.
I don't think the issue is that people are happy with their insurance.

I think the issue is that large swaths of the electorate are dumb enough to believe in death panels or that people in countries with socialized medicine wait 5 weeks for a flu shot.

Ultimately our biggest issue is that we're a nation of fucking morons.
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