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Old 05-16-2019, 01:35 PM   #381
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https://twitter.com/tomwatson/status...537008641?s=21

We had one chance to stop this madness. Or at least curb it to some check/control

But the Dems again prove they are worthless at governing.

We are so fucked
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:02 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
https://twitter.com/tomwatson/status...537008641?s=21

We had one chance to stop this madness. Or at least curb it to some check/control

But the Dems again prove they are worthless at governing.

We are so fucked
I get your point. I truly do. I would love for nothing more than the congress to have this beautiful tool to say, look at how awful this guy is, and then send him packing.
But this is complicated and complicated beyond any imagination because of who we are talking about. And now, the fat toad of an AG that is aiding him.

Here's the deal. We all can agree that if he is impeached, he isn't going anywhere. He will not be convicted by the Senate.
Voters actually agree to just keep investigating and not so much jump to impeachment off the bat. Why is this good?

1. Ongoing investigation will be the sort of drip drip of oppo information that chipped away at Clinton with Wikileaks and Comey announcement.

2. Ongoing investigation will highlight the White Houses stonewalling which gives the perception of guilt.

3. Investigations may very well open up a can of worms that will be a kill shot to this orange turd. Looks like McGahn and Mueller are in line to testify. Maybe Lewindowski and then others... The courts seem to be expediting the release of Trumps financial document lawsuit. and I think the Tax Returns are inevitable at this point. Lots to work with in the days to come. All being a new wave of bad news for Trump each week or month.

4. Trump doesn't give 1 shit about impeachment. In fact, he would absolutely LOVE it.
This would be him at every rally.
"Well folks. My real Americans here with me. They did it. They broke every law, and used the FBI and CIA to spy on me, and come up with fake evidence! AFTER I was completely cleared by Mueller. And they impeached me. Can you believe it? Impeached me.
Well guess what folks. They can't stop me, and more importantly, they can't stop YOU! We will win again because we have made this country great and we will make it greater!"


It would be a badge of honor. I could see him wearing an "I was impeached" pin if he could.

So in the end. There may well be investigations that could lead to much more trouble for the president. If nothing less, even more things referred to State AG's, that will end up ruining Trump's life, the day he steps out of the White House.
And more importantly - Dem candidates focus on Healthcare, Roe V. Wade, racist immigration policies, infrastructure, environment, and HEALTHCARE AGAIN.
All while being able to say - Donald Trump obstructed justice, his team met with the Russians 160 times. He is a tax cheat, he is under dozens of investigations in the congress and in NY state. We need to start fresh and get done what the people of this country want!!
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:02 PM   #383
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so, perhaps in the same way that a little law that was passed in 2003 in Massachusetts regarding marriage rights and same-sex couples may have galvanized enough religious voters in SE Ohio to get to the polls and cast a vote for GWB so that he was able to eek out a win in 2004, so could this "extreme" Alabama law galvanize the Democratic base, and women everywhere (especially those suburbs).

let them overreach, and then run 1,000,000 ads about how Mitch McConnell is going to force your freshly raped 16-year old to carry that child to term.

and then watch when Swing Justice Roberts not want to accelerate societal collapse by overturning RvW . and those same voters in SE Ohio get depressed and disillusioned, because literally the only thing that got them to vote for Trump was this moment they've been praying real hard for.
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:01 PM   #384
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so, perhaps in the same way that a little law that was passed in 2003 in Massachusetts regarding marriage rights and same-sex couples may have galvanized enough religious voters in SE Ohio to get to the polls and cast a vote for GWB so that he was able to eek out a win in 2004, so could this "extreme" Alabama law galvanize the Democratic base, and women everywhere (especially those suburbs).

let them overreach, and then run 1,000,000 ads about how Mitch McConnell is going to force your freshly raped 16-year old to carry that child to term.

and then watch when Swing Justice Roberts not want to accelerate societal collapse by overturning RvW . and those same voters in SE Ohio get depressed and disillusioned, because literally the only thing that got them to vote for Trump was this moment they've been praying real hard for.

Yeah, things are getting interesting. If the trade war gets dragged out, and China plays hardball, that will be big for the general electorate to sour on Trump. Another racist immigration grandstanding BS reform displayed today will turn off moderates and independents, and seeing Alabama, OH, GA, MO, and others all put through legislation to get Roe overturned. Well, damn, if you wanna piss off 95% of women voters, then as Obama said - Please proceed.
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:02 PM   #385
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It’s not about the senate, it’s about doing the right thing.

Hearings will put more pressure on him and his administration

Get the info out in the public. You can bet that it’ll put pressure on the senate and if they do nothing

That only helps the Dems in 2020 to take all three branches.

This is congress job.
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Old 05-16-2019, 05:30 PM   #386
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Yeah, things are getting interesting. If the trade war gets dragged out, and China plays hardball, that will be big for the general electorate to sour on Trump. Another racist immigration grandstanding BS reform displayed today will turn off moderates and independents, and seeing Alabama, OH, GA, MO, and others all put through legislation to get Roe overturned. Well, damn, if you wanna piss off 95% of women voters, then as Obama said - Please proceed.
The administration will also want to be real careful about this whispered talk of war with Iran, too. Because if they do put us in yet another Middle East war, everyone who remembers Iraq and how that turned out will only further sour on them, and since that war would no doubt have a negative impact on this "great economy" they love to keep crowing about, that would definitely turn people on them, too. I know there's the idea that they'd want a war to distract people, and voters don't change presidents during wars and whatnot, but I could still see it backfiring if they tried that anyway. I think that would only further mobilize not just Democrats, but moderates/independents, for sure.
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:23 PM   #387
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This Alabama law is a massive overreach. When Pat Robertson says so you have to go . It's absolutely, completely the WRONG case to take to the SCOTUS if you want to overturn Roe v Wade. So I hope to God it gets there as soon as possible. Even with the current SCOTUS, this has about zero chances of passing muster.

But those on the left have to be careful. Yes, you should run 1 million ads about McConnell forcing your 14-year-old daughter who was just raped by her music teacher or maybe by your drunken 67-year-old uncle carry a baby to term. But on the other hand we cannot frame any of this as acceptable, save for the rape/incest part. Hard pass. It's all shit, beginning to end.
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:38 PM   #388
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US Politics XIV: Vote for Pedro

https://twitter.com/davidcorndc/stat...976581633?s=21

Another reason why to impeach, they’re doing it all again for 2020

The Biden Ukraine bullshit. The fact Russia hasn’t been punished for their meddling.

Saudis

Israelis

China

Guess I’m just a bit down knowing the Dems won’t do anything to help


https://twitter.com/mimirocah1/statu...880343553?s=21

Can anyone argue why they can’t do this ? Why wouldn’t you?
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:54 PM   #389
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https://twitter.com/mimirocah1/statu...880343553?s=21

Can anyone argue why they can’t do this ? Why wouldn’t you?
trump could pardon him five seconds after the subpoena is issued and then flynn's agreement is null and void.
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:48 PM   #390
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Elections (with assistance from foreign governments) have consequences

As a highly sensitive person it’s so heartbreaking to read these stories of what could be coming (and we know it is). Wish our elected officials would do their damn jobs versus fear of public opinion

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/05/roe...andmark-cases/

“Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer on Monday issued what’s being called a “warning siren” Monday, strongly suggesting landmark civil rights cases, perhaps Roe v. Wade, or Planned Parenthood v. Casey, or maybe Brown v. Board of Education are increasingly likely to be overturned by the Trump-reshaped far-right SCOTUS.

“Today’s decision can only cause one to wonder which cases the Court will overrule next,” Breyer wrote in a dissent of a case handed down Monday, overturning decades of Supreme Court precedent.”


While i don't have to worry anymore about pregnancy, i am infuriated amd terrified for my younger women relatives, friends and women, especially poor women in general, as I've watched the creeping in various States over past several decades , and now this more aggressive push to disenfranchise more and more women with more and more obstacles and now like a 95%+ ban against women being able to choose when, or if they want children.
Fuck you, Alabama. I think Missouri is the next state for an extreme bill.

And, oh, i'm not sure i heard it correctly as sometimes i'm doing more active stuff around the apt- but thought i barely heard something about Brown vs Board of Education being targeted by Conservatives to get this court reversal if someone figures out a "proper" case for that, as well.

Ye1ah, anitram, i heard the Robinson comment. May it'll blow up in their faces and take a good while to regroup.(one can hope)

Quote:
Originally Posted by womanfish View Post
I get your point. I truly do. I would love for nothing more than the congress to have this beautiful tool to say, look at how awful this guy is, and then send him packing.
But this is complicated and complicated beyond any imagination because of who we are talking about. And now, the fat toad of an AG that is aiding him.

Here's the deal. We all can agree that if he is impeached, he isn't going anywhere. He will not be convicted by the Senate.
Voters actually agree to just keep investigating and not so much jump to impeachment off the bat. Why is this good?

1. Ongoing investigation will be the sort of drip drip of oppo information that chipped away at Clinton with Wikileaks and Comey announcement.

2. Ongoing investigation will highlight the White Houses stonewalling which gives the perception of guilt.

3. Investigations may very well open up a can of worms that will be a kill shot to this orange turd. Looks like McGahn and Mueller are in line to testify. Maybe Lewindowski and then others... The courts seem to be expediting the release of Trumps financial document lawsuit. and I think the Tax Returns are inevitable at this point. Lots to work with in the days to come. All being a new wave of bad news for Trump each week or month.

4. Trump doesn't give 1 shit about impeachment. In fact, he would absolutely LOVE it.
This would be him at every rally.
"Well folks. My real Americans here with me. They did it. They broke every law, and used the FBI and CIA to spy on me, and come up with fake evidence! AFTER I was completely cleared by Mueller. And they impeached me. Can you believe it? Impeached me.
Well guess what folks. They can't stop me, and more importantly, they can't stop YOU! We will win again because we have made this country great and we will make it greater!"


It would be a badge of honor. I could see him wearing an "I was impeached" pin if he could.

So in the end. There may well be investigations that could lead to much more trouble for the president. If nothing less, even more things referred to State AG's, that will end up ruining Trump's life, the day he steps out of the White House.
And more importantly - Dem candidates focus on Healthcare, Roe V. Wade, racist immigration policies, infrastructure, environment, and HEALTHCARE AGAIN.
All while being able to say - Donald Trump obstructed justice, his team met with the Russians 160 times. He is a tax cheat, he is under dozens of investigations in the congress and in NY state. We need to start fresh and get done what the people of this country want!!
I think the Dem candidates should focus on the issues you've mentioned, while The House keeps investigating.

It has been mentioned that re: Watergate it took a while for the facts to seep into the general public's attention. Especially since we now still have to counter trump's and barr's lying spin!

I tend to think unlike Biden that way more Republicans will not return to bipartisanship. There, might be some st at some points not many that might get something good done, hopefully Dems will
keep The House, and get back the Senate and Presidency.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:24 AM   #391
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trump could pardon him five seconds after the subpoena is issued and then flynn's agreement is null and void.
Even it pardoned, he's not under control of DOJ and could be subpoenaed to testify. He would also lose his right to plead the 5th, as he can't incriminate himself on something he's already been convicted for.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:27 AM   #392
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I get your point. I truly do. I would love for nothing more than the congress to have this beautiful tool to say, look at how awful this guy is, and then send him packing.

But this is complicated and complicated beyond any imagination because of who we are talking about. And now, the fat toad of an AG that is aiding him.



Here's the deal. We all can agree that if he is impeached, he isn't going anywhere. He will not be convicted by the Senate.

Voters actually agree to just keep investigating and not so much jump to impeachment off the bat. Why is this good?



1. Ongoing investigation will be the sort of drip drip of oppo information that chipped away at Clinton with Wikileaks and Comey announcement.



2. Ongoing investigation will highlight the White Houses stonewalling which gives the perception of guilt.



3. Investigations may very well open up a can of worms that will be a kill shot to this orange turd. Looks like McGahn and Mueller are in line to testify. Maybe Lewindowski and then others... The courts seem to be expediting the release of Trumps financial document lawsuit. and I think the Tax Returns are inevitable at this point. Lots to work with in the days to come. All being a new wave of bad news for Trump each week or month.



4. Trump doesn't give 1 shit about impeachment. In fact, he would absolutely LOVE it.

This would be him at every rally.

"Well folks. My real Americans here with me. They did it. They broke every law, and used the FBI and CIA to spy on me, and come up with fake evidence! AFTER I was completely cleared by Mueller. And they impeached me. Can you believe it? Impeached me.

Well guess what folks. They can't stop me, and more importantly, they can't stop YOU! We will win again because we have made this country great and we will make it greater!"




It would be a badge of honor. I could see him wearing an "I was impeached" pin if he could.



So in the end. There may well be investigations that could lead to much more trouble for the president. If nothing less, even more things referred to State AG's, that will end up ruining Trump's life, the day he steps out of the White House.

And more importantly - Dem candidates focus on Healthcare, Roe V. Wade, racist immigration policies, infrastructure, environment, and HEALTHCARE AGAIN.

All while being able to say - Donald Trump obstructed justice, his team met with the Russians 160 times. He is a tax cheat, he is under dozens of investigations in the congress and in NY state. We need to start fresh and get done what the people of this country want!!
No

He should be impeached because that's what Congress is supposed to fucking do. There's more against Trump than there was against Nixon. Not impeaching him sets an awful precedent for the future. It also emboldens him. He's obstructing Congress' oversight right now because he knows they're too chicken shit to do anything about it. Because the Democrats really suck at this and have no marbles.
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:41 AM   #393
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:46 AM   #394
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I mean, she's not necessarily wrong with her comments. Is that politician in Omaha planning to support any abortion restriction bills? Or is it more that he's personally pro-life, but still acknowledges and respects that women have the right to make their own decisions about their reproductive rights, and will support legislation that allows them to continue to have that right? The former would definitely be a problem. The latter, not so much. I think it is possible for a Democrat to personally be pro-life and, instead of passing anti-abortion bills, support policies and legislation that would actually be beneficial to women (comprehensive sex education, access to birth control, good-paying jobs, affordable/universal healthcare, etc.) that would tackle the issues that lead to many women having abortions in the first place, and still fight to make sure women do have the right to have an abortion if need be. And I say all of that as somebody who is staunchly pro-choice.

If any Democratic pro-lifers were to support anti-abortion bills and refused to support the kinds of policies I just mentioned, however? Then I fully agree the Democratic Party need to make it clear that kind of mentality will not stand or get any support.
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:48 AM   #395
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I wouldn't call her a disappointment, but it's staggering just how much of a nothing politician Pelosi is.
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:49 AM   #396
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glad you're still around, i was worried after sunday that you were gone again
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:11 AM   #397
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But it was Joe Biden’s moment, and it sure still seems to be Joe Biden’s moment. He has dominated the polls since he entered the race last month. Before Biden announced, he was at a measly 29 percent in the Real Clear Politics average of national polls, only 6 percentage points ahead of progressive favorite Bernie Sanders, who not all that long ago looked like a genuine co-front-runner. Since then, Biden has surged to 40 percent, kicking Sanders down to the mid-teens. In the past week, Biden has posted intimidating double-digit leads in polls from the early-contest states of Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. His dominance of the Democratic Party’s moderate wing has helped stall the rise of Mayor Pete Buttigieg while also squeezing the ability of candidates like Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris from positioning themselves as more viable progressive alternatives to Sanders.

It’s not just Biden’s rising poll numbers that suggest that the activist left is out of step with most Democrats; it’s the ideological makeup of the entire Democratic Party. Fifty-six percent of Democrats self-identify as “moderate” and 9 percent even embrace “conservative,” according to an April poll from the Judy Ford Wason Center for Public Policy at Christopher Newport University. While leftist activists pine for the end of the legislative filibuster to grease the skids for partisan legislation, a December GW Politics poll found that 66 percent of Democrats said they prefer elected officials who “make compromises with people they disagree with” over those who “stick to their positions." Only 36 percent of Republicans said the same.

It’s too early to declare this the year of anything, whether progressive change or centrist Bidenmania. But Biden’s commanding lead has left the party’s resurgent left with a question: What to do if it never stops being Biden’s moment. Despite circulation of Biden's 1970s opposition to school busing and Anita Hill's rejection of his apology for his handling of the Clarence Thomas hearings, his appeal crosses nearly every demographic group, with the mild exception of voters under 35; he still leads with young voters, just not by as much as with other groups.

And Biden’s lead is at least in part because of his relative moderation and not in spite of it. Even voters who disagree with him seem to be drawn to his centrism. Polls from CNN and Monmouth University found that Democratic primary voters put the ability to defeat Trump ahead of ideological purity when picking a presidential nominee. It’s true that a recent poll from ABC and the Washington Post seemed to show the opposite result, with 47 percent of Democrats saying they preferred a candidate “whose positions on the issues come closest to yours” and only 39 percent said they favored one “most likely to defeat” Trump. But the cross tabulation showed that it was largely moderate and conservative Democrats who wanted an ideologically like-minded candidate, while liberal Democrats tilted toward the more electable candidate. Democrats in both ideological camps, it seems, are nervous about a nominee too far to the left.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...en-2020-226872

so let's center (haha) the conversation on how things are, and now how we wish them to be.

given Biden's wide, growing lead, especially among the Democratic "base" -- no, not the white "woke" left, but with minority voters, it seems we have to confront two things:

1. any nominee with the hint/whiff/stench of "socialism" is going to be Donald Trump's only hope of winning in 2020; this does for the business class what "infanticide" and "judges" does for the religious right -- it causes them to hold their noses and cast a ballot for a gruesome person

2. actual Democrats who vote aren't as Left as Twitter makes you think


it also seems to me that the social democratic wing of the Democratic Party has done an enormous amount of good these past few years. Medicare-for-all is absolutely a mainstream position now, whereas it wasn't in 2016. these socialists recognized that to get their platform going, they needed to slowly take over the party, and did so by running as Dems, winning, and pulling the rest of the party left by getting the party to take their ideas seriously. we don't live in a parliamentary democracy, so if the party isn't talking to you, you change the party from within, slowly, incrementally, and by winning elections.

the rest of the country isn't there yet. general election candidates need to speak to the broadest audience possible. but change is coming. and it could be in the form of Joe Biden. right now, it seems that Blue voters want a return to normalcy, modest and measured reforms, and an end to the daily Reality Show coming out of the white house.

or this take could age poorly. we don't know yet. i'm eagerly awaiting the debates, especially to see how Warren performs so i can imagine what she'll be like on the stage next to Trump. we don't get too many side-by-side comparisons, so i think that's important when choosing which candidate i'd support. but Biden's big lead has to be taken into consideration if we're to understand the current state of the race.
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:15 AM   #398
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a December GW Politics poll found that 66 percent of Democrats said they prefer elected officials who “make compromises with people they disagree with” over those who “stick to their positions." Only 36 percent of Republicans said the same.
i find it baffling that anyone thinks this is something to celebrate and/or be proud of. "we're willing to compromise our principles and the other party isn't, hooray for us!"
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:57 PM   #399
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Old 05-17-2019, 01:35 PM   #400
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