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Old 03-15-2019, 06:35 PM   #161
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The Democrats punting an entire generation on the left is so frustrating. Bernie Sanders is 77 years old, just opened a shower door on his own face, and is a grumpy curmudgeon, and yet he is the only one I can morally throw my support behind because the rest of the Democrats love capitalism.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:30 PM   #162
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It really is helpful to go into 2020 once again thinking that there’s no real difference between Donald Trump and Joe Biden.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:21 PM   #163
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:03 PM   #164
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The Democrats punting an entire generation on the left is so frustrating. Bernie Sanders is 77 years old, just opened a shower door on his own face, and is a grumpy curmudgeon, and yet he is the only one I can morally throw my support behind because the rest of the Democrats love capitalism.
You do realize that some of us genuinely don't see capitalism as some sort of inherent evil? Unbridled, unregulated capitalism has the potential to be terrible and oppressive but to flat out deny that the progress in terms of scientific discovery, medicine, technology, standard of living has been made possible in the West precisely because of a combination of capitalism and democracy is pretty myopic.
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:26 PM   #165
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What she said
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:42 PM   #166
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You do realize that some of us genuinely don't see capitalism as some sort of inherent evil? Unbridled, unregulated capitalism has the potential to be terrible and oppressive but to flat out deny that the progress in terms of scientific discovery, medicine, technology, standard of living has been made possible in the West precisely because of a combination of capitalism and democracy is pretty myopic.
I have seen it said that socialists have a poor grasp of reality. I think that those who believe a billionaire is coming, one who will finally rescue capitalism from those inconvenient jerks who gave it a bad name, and will finally direct the chase for profit in the moral direction it deserves ... they are the ones living in a fantasy land.

Capitalism is, at this point, the mechanism for a select few to accumulate as much as they possibly can before climate change change renders the current state of order so irreconcilable that anarchy reigns and the economic system collapses. They'll make their theoretical fortresses into actual fortresses soon enough.
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:50 PM   #167
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It really is helpful to go into 2020 once again thinking that there’s no real difference between Donald Trump and Joe Biden.
Donald Trump is worse than Joe Biden.

But if you can't imagine a better candidate than Joe Biden, who loves credit card companies bankrupting the poor, especially poor people of color, who loves laws designed specifically to incarcerate minorities on shaky legal grounds, who loves war across the globe, especially war that kills Muslims, who loves discrediting rape victims when politically convenient to seem like the reasonable Democrats, and who loves insulting every person under the age of 35 for being lazy and entitled ... then I must confess I find your political viewpoints very worthy of being dismissed from the outset.

Biden literally pined THIS WEEK for September 2001 and how united the country was, and how bad it is that he's criticized for being friendly with Republicans now. Do I have to illustrate how fucked up that sentiment is, especially in light of Christchurch? This fucker wants to go back to a time when we were united around the common cause of killing Muslims. Fuck Joe Biden forever. I don't measure my candidates over whether or not they clear the fucking Donald Trump bar.
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:53 PM   #168
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Right. I totally can’t imagine a better candidate than Joe Biden. That’s exactly what I said.
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:57 PM   #169
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Right. I totally can’t imagine a better candidate than Joe Biden. That’s exactly what I said.
What the fuck is your point? That young people should shut the fuck up and take whatever candidate Nancy Pelosi tells us is good for us?
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:01 PM   #170
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What the fuck is your point? That young people should shut the fuck up and take whatever candidate Nancy Pelosi tells us is good for us?




It’s really not productive discussing things with Born Agains of any stripe.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:02 PM   #171
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I am fucking enraged by what is happening in the world right now. Maybe you are too, I hope you are. I think you are a good person, so I would like to believe so. But your political ambition certainly makes me feel you are not. And that saddens me, but also stokes my rage. If you can't find it in you to seek more in what we need right now, I don't know what will. And I fear that before I ever get a satisfactory answer from you, I'll be offline bankrupting myself trying to defend my family from the horrors to come when ecological disaster allows fascism to dictate the course of the next generation.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:04 PM   #172
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You get angry at me for "comparing" Biden to Trump but then compare me to a Trump supporter. Incredible.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:06 PM   #173
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It’s really not productive discussing things with Born Agains of any stripe.
"There are fine people on both sides."
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:08 PM   #174
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You get angry at me for "comparing" Biden to Trump but then compare me to a Trump supporter. Incredible.



Where did I do any such thing?
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:11 PM   #175
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Where did I do any such thing?
In context, what is your comment about "Born Agains" supposed to mean if not supposed to mean that those on the left who think Biden is not good enough are as irrational as the Jesus Freaks who align with Trump?
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:16 PM   #176
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In context, what is your comment about "Born Agains" supposed to mean if not supposed to mean that those on the left who think Biden is not good enough are as irrational as the Jesus Freaks who align with Trump?



You are positively Born Again about “socialism” — whatever that actually means — and your manichean worldview is difficult to engage with.

I admire your passion and anger, I do. And we agree more than we don’t. I am horrified by Trump But I don’t know where to take any such discussion because of this scorched earth posting style.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:42 PM   #177
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i've missed this
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:24 PM   #178
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I have seen it said that socialists have a poor grasp of reality. I think that those who believe a billionaire is coming, one who will finally rescue capitalism from those inconvenient jerks who gave it a bad name, and will finally direct the chase for profit in the moral direction it deserves ... they are the ones living in a fantasy land.


Maybe this was on purpose or maybe you’re firing shots in my general direction without knowing I’m standing right here, but I would suppose that this is in reference to my commentary regarding Elon Musk vs Boeing and Lockheed Martin way back when.

To which case, (1) you’re wrong, and (2) you’re grossly misrepresenting the point that was being made.

I don’t subscribe to a single ideology, nor would I say I have one. I subscribe to checks and balances, and to a reaction-based government. Times are dynamic, so I don’t understand why our politics shouldn’t be.

There are positives and negatives to all forms of governments. There remains something to be said about “opportunity” in a capitalist system. Competition in capitalism does drive growth.

Socialism has the capability to lift the minimum quality of life. Socialism has the ability to create equality.

Capitalism encourages greed, oppression, and inequality.

Socialism fails to incentivize productivity and growth, and leads to bloated bureaucracy.

And on and on and on. Right now, we as a nation are being oppressed and abused by a system that allows our livelihood and health to be capitalized on. It’s morally wrong. We need a socialized system. We need to react.

We need to close the poverty gap, through some means or another. Perhaps basic income. Perhaps dramatically increasing minimum wage.

That doesn’t mean capitalism is inherently bad. We are just festering in a capitalist dump that has sat on its fat ass for so long, gotten so bloated, and now it can’t get up and evolve. We need to always be evolving.

A lot of superiority and inferiority in the US has come about from capitalism. We don’t need to BE capitalists and we don’t need to BE socialists. We need to evolve and make smart decisions in response to deficiencies in our society.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:28 PM   #179
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I am fucking enraged by what is happening in the world right now. Maybe you are too, I hope you are. I think you are a good person, so I would like to believe so. But your political ambition certainly makes me feel you are not.

We’re all a bunch of desktop warriors. I’ve met him. He’s a good person. You guys play for the same team in the grand scheme of things, we should all be more constructive. Too much vitriol™️
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:29 PM   #180
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i've missed this


I missed u
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